I believe notable pastors such as John MacArthur (whom I respect) teach the sign gifts have ceased in the first century. I believe the argument goes since we have the Bible there is no need for tongues, prophesy, healings, words of knowledge, etc. to autheticate the gospel.

I have not seen this as a taboo subject to discuss here on SI. Please note I said "discuss" not "debate". So I ask is there credible scripture support for cessionism? Are the sign gifts still valid today?

Would like to hear from the forum.

Posted by Bearmaster.

I heard that the root of this so called Cessationism Theology came from the people who observed the abuse of gifts of the Holy Spirit that frequently happened in Pentacostal Churches. Hence they took the extreme step of not trusting in it. I think such people belong to Brethern Churches like Baptists. They do not even believe in Baptism of Holy Spirit. I have heard stories of People from Pentacostal background who were complelled to speak in tongues by their pastors. Once they start blabering something they will be accepted into the group.

I have also heard a testimony of a brother who was in Brethern Church that does not believe in Gifts. He was praying for the Gift and God answered him saying, standup in the Church meeting and shout that you need Baptism of Holy Spirit. He knew he will be thrown out of Church if he does that. He still obeyed God and that night he received the Baptism of Holy Spirit and started speaking in tongues.

Here is the scripture that Cessationist quote for proof:-
1 Cor 13:9-
Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part; but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.

According to me this scripture does not mean that God will cease from giving gifts. It only means that Prophey will be done away when the actual event happens. One may cease to speak in Tongues (not sure about the conditions) but love will never fail.

_________________
Sreeram

It is so obvious that the church today all over the world is flourishing in delivering the message of salvation, that the world is in awe of the Christian love they see everywhere, that all the people who call themselves Christian are beacons of light and righteousness causing their neighbors to fall on their faces to repent.

Thus, there is no need for the gifts of the Spirit in today's society. Sure glad we got that squared away. Now to remove the tongue from the cheek.

1 Cor. 13 is so misunderstood! It is only when the gifts operate in love are they effective, and both the love and the gifts are critical to the spread of a credible Christian gospel. I am appalled at the audacity of those who say the gifts are not for today, their theological arrogance a veil against what God has given to accomplish His will in the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Paul knew, as he notes at the beginning of the letter to the Corinthians- "I didn't come to you with lofty words of men's wisdom, but in power and a demonstration of the Spirit of God, that your faith not rest on the wisdom of man but on the power of God!" (Roughly from my memory of the verse)

Abuses? Of course there are abuses! That's why he wrote that 13th chapter! But I see no way the people of God will ever have moral dominance in the larger human conversation if the gifts He gave are ignored, abused, rejected, or ridiculed by those who consider themselves the leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ.

Let him who prophesies do so in proportion to his faith, Paul advises. When a believer first utters a prophetic word, it will likely be 1% the Spirit, and 99% the person. Not a problem, if love is there for encouragement and correction. But it will grow, and those proportions will shift as the person continues in the gift.

I would have much more to say on this, as I have both made mistakes and had wonderful success in the exercise of these things.

One thing I know, the gifts are from God and He knows what He is doing. Woe to those who think they have a better plan to do His will!

_________________
Tom Cameron

If and when the gifts are valuable to the body of Christ, there are two tests that must be applied.

One: It is the Holy Spirit that uses the gifts in man as it pleases Him, what God wants in the gifts not man.

1 Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Two: Love is the apprentice of the Holy Spirit to any gift manifested:

1 Corinthians 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

The only way of the gifts of the Holy Spirit;

1 Corinthians 13:1-3 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

What are the better gifts? When do they operate to further the building up of the Body of Christ, His Church?

When led by the Holy Spirit, used in love, tested by the body of Christ, see the fruit of the gift.

In Christ: Phillip

_________________
Phillip

The term "Cessionism" is new to me I must admit. Must add that to the long list of "ism's" that clog some remote file in the back of my brain.

"Back in the Day" as we stroke another weary phrase from the past, the exercise of the gifts of the Spirit was quite prevalent even as the practice spread from the Pentecostal churches into the main-line denominations. In the '60's there were people standing up in Presbyterian, Episcopal, and Lutheran churches all over blasting out messages in tongues, thundering prophecies, and pointing fingers with words of knowledge.

It got pretty exciting at times, but apparently not much good came of it. The gifts may or may not have been genuine, but love lagged far behind, and from what I can see the practice did not catch on with these congregations.

Nor were pastors pleased when strangers or congregants stood in meetings to seize the air with whatever was stirring in their hearts.

Few pastors had the wisdom and patience to teach their people how to operate effectively with these manifestations. A man with a message from God but an un-submitted heart was a disaster just looking for a trainwreck. It wasn't hard to find.

None of this diminishes the good that God wishes to do with His giftings. Just as the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man accomplishes much, so the Gifts of the Spirit in the working hand of a humble and properly broken servant of Christ have the potential to change nations.

We have not read the last chapter of this story...!

_________________
Tom Cameron

I appreciate the responses to this thread and the insights offered. Particularly the aspect that the spiritual gifts be exercised in an environment of love.

I had hoped some who held to a cesssionist view would come and offer a scriptural view of why they believe the sign gifts disappeared after the first century.

As I understand the argument of the cessionist they would argue that the "perfect" in 1 Cor.13:10 has come. To them the perfect is the word of God. The "partial" would be tongues and prophesy which have been done away with. Is this a fair depiction of cessionism?

Of course the question is what is the "perfect" of 1 Cor.10:13? Any thoughts?

Again I ask does the New Testament teach the continuation of certain sign gifts or have they ceased? I really would like to hear from those who advocate the cessionist position.

I know our Calvinistic and Reformed brethren are for the most part cessionist? Why do you hold to this position? My desire is to dialogue with those who hold this position and see your scripture view point. I have more questions that I would like to adress to those who hold the cessionist position.

Bearmaster.

1 Corinthians 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Is He come? Is He working in you mightily?

Jesus Christ is the only One that is perfect making His birthing in the believer the only perfection they can attain.

In Christ: Phillip

_________________
Phillip

Phillip very excellent insight. I never saw the connection between the perfect in 1Corithians and Colossians. If the perfect Christ is in us then everything else is secondary. Thank you for sharing.

Bearmaster.

Philip so are you saying prophecy is done away with ???

Here's a series of 3 - 30 minute messages from one who'd be considered 'reformed' and 'calvinist' on the gifts of the Spirit.

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sid=82901224033
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sid=82901224358
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=91701112836

And this one by the same man answers the question "What is Calvinism?"

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1029022190

Hope these help somewhat.