| Poster | Thread | White_Stone
Member
Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida
| | Re: | | roadsign,
This subject is very objectionable. I agree with Sree and Jesus-is-God.
It is very dangerous to play the game you are playing. You are toying with God's word and I find that just plain ugly.
white stone
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Janice
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|  2012/3/9 18:20 | Profile |
| | Re: | | I would love to support you here sister roadsign but you took one step to far to the left for me. God bless you though. Maybe "homosexuals and those who have abortions are entering the kingdom ahead of you evangelicals" would work better.
In Christ -Jim |
| | 2012/3/9 19:12 | | hulsey
Moderator
Joined: 2006/7/5
Posts: 653
Missouri
| | Re: | | I'm sure Diane is not promoting/condoning homosexuality any more than Jesus was promoting the religion of the Samaritans. The point of her story and Jesus' parable are the same: compassion.
The impact and controversy of a Samaritan are lost on us. Jews had a saying in that day that they thanked God that they were not born a dog or a Samaritan...etc.
Jesus also warned of straining a nat and swallowing a camel.
Brothers in light of Christ's words that we* will be held accountable for EVERYTHING that proceeds out of our* mouths please be merciful and if you can't agree at least try to understand what someone is trying to say.
*Edit
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Jeremy Hulsey
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| | 2012/3/9 19:21 | Profile |
| | Re: | | I'm all for "compassion", probably more than any here would know, nevertheless - when we take His Word and tweek it to the point that it endangers those that read what we've made out of it - then 'our compassion' is not from Him.
I saw the OP from the eyes of a young teen girl who's not grounded in The Word, nor does she know the dangers and anti-Biblical perspectives of today's psychiatric methods, being 'moved' emotionally but dangerously, not from Him.
The danger of tweeking His Word and His Mind on these things should be seen from the eyes of the vulnerable out there.
To add: "Compassion" is basically an 'emotion'. We can play on people's emotions and also move them further from His Heart and/or Mind - His Word. |
| | 2012/3/9 20:20 | | roadsign
Member
Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777
| | Re: | | Quote:
I find that just plain ugly
Yes. There is a lot of ugliness to my story- in all the characters. Sin has a very ugly effect. Interesting, when I prayed through this (and I delayed posting it for that purpose) the Lord kept bringing to mind the thought: This is the way it is.
I appreciate how all of you see this ugliness of sinful life choices. For those who dont, this story would convey the wrong message. Even still, it is only useful if it spurs us toward maturity. After all, Jesus told the lawyer: Go and do likewise. Likewise, it is our duty to come beside those fallen, those who have been robbed (emotionally, spiritually, etc) and those who have been left uncovered in their sin. And these people are all around us. There are so many. They may be we ourselves. If we cant see it, it might be, as Carter Conlon says, that we have become dulled. It is possible that our attention to theological matters has dulled us to real human experience.
For most of us here homosexuality would measure high on the seriousness- of-sin scale. But wherever you put that notch on your scale, you would need to mark a higher notch for another sin: that is the failure of Gods people to love others as he calls us. If that sin doesnt register high on our scale then we need an awakening, dont we? Otherwise we will wound each other and not even know it. And frankly, that is happening. I include myself in this. I need to grow in love.
Regarding the story, personally, I find myself most burdened for the pastor. Maybe thats not very virtuous of me, but thats the way it is. Maybe its because I am a parent too, and a dedicated Christian. (Remember, this story represents countless real situations.) I imagine this pastor receiving that phone call about his daughter. What thoughts must go through his mind? What shock. What shame. Whats he going to tell his church? Or would he want to keep it hushed? How is he going to handle the guilt? Of course he contributed to the tragedy through his own neglect. But he is also a victim of a world that is so trapped in sin a world, and even a church that cannot love its own. Its not all his fault; or his wifes. Its not even an issue of blame. Its really about turning to the Lord for mercy and then becoming wounded healers for others.
My main concern with posting this story was for those who may come here, who are presently enduring intense grief related to suicide or attempted suicide of a family member. The thought of possibly aggravating the pain troubles me. I trust that they would receive mercy.
While the homosexual in the story may have been disturbing, I hope that we will together be far more burdened over our own shortcomings, and also the very real tragedy of the emotional suffering cause by sin's trap in our fallen society. May God empower us to grasp and know his love that we may give that cup of water to the one in our path who is thirsty.
Diane
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Diane
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| | 2012/3/9 21:03 | Profile |
| | Re: | |
Yes but - the mix of humanism, psychology and christian jargon is equivalent to giving out a cup of lukewarm water.
What is the difficulty in staying sola-scriptura? Why would we risk doing injury to the only innerant words ever written, by adding so many of our own? Are our own words more 'healing' to the lost and hurting of this world?
It was GOD that put the distinquishing 'notch' in Romans 1.
We're not dealing with fictional characters when we write on cyberspace. We can't help a soul by going outside or beyond His Own Word or by adding or subtracting from it.
A person can idolize their own compassion over His.
His is pure - as in Holy, besides Pure-sighted love.
Not tainted with human sentiment. No comparison.
We need only read one small book titled the New Testament to see His Mind/Heart and be able to clear a straight path for others to see what He Himself wrote of Himself.
There is no other prescription for freedom from whatever burdens a human soul, if they will accept His only remedy.
Let us never make it appear that we are more compassionate than GOD our Saviour, lest we hear about the lukewarm water we've given in His Name.
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| | 2012/3/9 22:13 | | pilgrim777
Member
Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211
| | Re: The Story of "the Good Homosexual" | | Quote:
Her parents werent particularly approachable, she felt. She had always felt distanced from them. Her dad was a busy pastor of a thriving church.
This is a problem right here. What good is it if you save the world but lose your family? What kind of testimony is it if your church is "thriving" but your daughter is not? The church was evidently "thriving" because the Pastor was "busy" putting all of his energies and time into her.
Quote:
Becky just assumed he would freak out if she told him. He would remind her that suicide is a sin and she should be thankful for her good Christian background.
Yeah, that would not be a good testimony if the Pastor's child was contemplating suicide. Is that why he would freak out? Because it would reflect on him? That is very selfish and self-centered.
I don't know if this story is true or not, but regardless, this shows absolutely no understanding of the spirtual realm, not to mention his daughter. And it is very prideful and smug (be thankful for her good Christian background). What is good about it? This father's attitude is a big part of why Becky has problems and yet he does not see it. As if being a Pastor's daughter means that you automatically are supposed to have a wonderful life.
Quote:
Beckys mom herself had suffered depression, but she kept it at bay by busying herself with running the food bank.
Well here we go. Things are coming a bit clearer now. The mother herself has depression. So both the mother and daughter are fighting depression. The mother is able to keep it at bay but the depression is close to overcoming the daughter. This is a demonic spirit that is bringing in suicide, now. Someone has abdicated their headship in the home.
Quote:
On Sundays Becky sang in the worship team. The worship leader did notice a dulling in her countenance, but assumed that livelier praise songs would help her. So he made certain to include some.
Everyone is supposed to always be upbeat because afterall we are Christians!! There seems to be very little understanding and appreciation for the spiritual battle that people find themselves in. Not only does the Pastor have superficial understanding but also his staff. So, why is this church thriving? What is the definition of thriving one would wonder?
Quote:
At school Ms Jens, her history teacher had been noticing changes in her for the last while. That day she approached Becky privately after class and commented about her observations the sad expression, withdrawal from others, and a loss of interest in her studies. Ms Jens was a lesbian feminist with a particular interest in womens concerns. She invited Becky to come talk with her anytime she wanted. Thats when Becky blurted her suicide plans.
It is sad that she could not talk to her parents, but this is often the case when parents project performance based relationship. But the poor mother has her own deep issues and who knows if she has not contemplated suicide, too.
Quote:
Ms Jens listened carefully and then asked a few questions to discern how serious Becky was.
This lady listened! Then got a clue and began to probe a bit deeper to see "how serious Becky" is.
Quote:
Ms Jens expressed her intent to arrange for Becky to see a youth counselor right away; and then she drove her to the mental health center. Ms Jens made sure Becky was provided for and the parents were notified. As she was leaving, Ms Jens said to Becky, Anytime you want to chat, please feel welcome. Here is my phone number.
Does anyone expect Ms Jens to share the Gospel with Becky? Of course not! Ms Jens did what she knew to do. At least Becky might live now and not commit suicide. The parents will find out and maybe the Pastor/Father will have a "come to Jesus" moment, get delivered from whatever idols are keeping him away from his wife and daughter and then real restoration will come to that family. Something drastic needs to happen!
Quote:
You know where this story is going, dont you? It leads to a provocative question, not unlike the question Jesus asked a religious expert: Who was a neighbor to Becky?
How would you answer that question?
I don't have a problem with this scenario because it plays out like this many times, every day.
Obviously, the only neighbor to Becky is the one that showed interest and concern to her. She spilled her guts to Ms Jens and when you think about it, she opened herself up to Ms Jens the very first time that Ms Jens showed interest. So, what would Becky have done if her parents showed interest and concern? If they were more approachable and less intimidating. Yes, less intimidating because Becky was afraid to confide in them. There are many ways you can intimidate your children.
Many of us know that this type of story is especially indicative of sons and daughters of professional clergy and parents that project performance oriented relationship. There are many books and testimonies about this particular subject on the market.
What does that tell us as a Church? Can we look at ourselves in the mirror and face ourselves or is everything "wonderful".
Thanks for bringing this to the forefront, Diane.
Pilgrim |
| | 2012/3/9 22:35 | Profile |
| | Re: The Story of "the Good Homosexual" | | Quote:
Who was a neighbor to Becky?
Ms Jens was a neighbour to Becky. Like the Samaritan who didn't preach the gospel to the man in the ditch, but gave the best he could for temporal relief, so Ms Jens gave the best she knew to give as well. It did not save Becky eternally, but it could be used to keep her alive until that day would come. Then maybe she could lead her own parents to salvation.
The "angel of light" reference is not at all applicable here because "angels of light" purport to work in the name of Christ, whereas Ms Jens worked in her own name.
OJ
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| | 2012/3/10 0:24 | | pilgrim777
Member
Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211
| | Re: | | "Angels of Light" is a term given to those whose objective is to deceive.
Ms Jens objective was to save Becky from herself.
God is not bound by our dogmas and will utilize a Rahab or a Ms Jens and possibly even you or I, if we have mercy and compassion.
Pilgrim
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| | 2012/3/10 7:49 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Becky was a part of a Church and sang in the choir. If she chose - as a Christian - to not go to ANYBODY in the Body of Christ with feelings that she knew were dangerous but told an unsaved woman all the horrible things that reflected badly on her 'supposed' inattentive parents and she hasn't at least one Christian friend[?] but turned to the world - the 'work' coming from the unsaved person that she made Christianity and her parents look bad to - put that unsaved person in the same position that an angel of light minister would take ---- send her to the "mental health clinic" to further bag her parents and Christianity's "lack" --- though it was not anyone's fault but Becky's for Not Seeking Godly Christian Counsel for her depressive suicidal thoughts.
IF her father or mother had been abusing her and THAT was WHY she wanted to die - she still had an option of seeking out a Christian Friend.
An angel of light takes "the place of Christ" or Biblical Counsel. "Anti" also means "in place of" ... as in AntiChrist. Here, this teacher is being seen as the 'righteous one' as Jesus was showing about the Samaritan, compared to the "religious" crowd - but in this case - Becky was surrounded by and was raised in a Christian environment by comparison.
Angel of light ministers, from that verse - are Not saved and their advice or help is from the pit - as this teachers was - because at the mental health clinic - what will Becky get?
[Adding quote from OP: "Ms Jens expressed her intent to arrange for Becky to see a youth counselor right away; and then she drove her to the mental health center. Ms Jens made sure Becky was provided for and the parents were notified."
She could have just told Becky - let's call your Dad at your Church and get his permission on what to do.
These type scenarios are happening now in Public Schools and to the degree in some, children are being medicated w/o parental consent.]
Would you like to see your children there - talking about YOU as a parent and being given Meds because of YOUR supposed failures as parents - as this secular psych 'professional' will do to your child.... Blame you?
What sort of 'witness' does this women's counsel bring to you, as a parent and the Church/Christianity? |
| | 2012/3/10 10:44 | |
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