OK but you said earlier that it is men and women to blame which does not sound like an acknowledgement that there is a problem in condeming the half dressed women without looking at the reason for their behaviour and an acknowledgement that it is men who have the power in any society - and this is scriptural and the result of the fall. Why do Christian men accept this status quo without question or support of even their female brethren who are still subject to mistreatment by males even by the pastor on the video who is condeming females too and not addressing the root problem?

I am blaming both man and woman in this because both parties are responsible, This again is a useless argument in the Christian realm because any Spirit filled male that is truly following after Christ won't be advocating immodesty and UNequality of woman and a Woman that is Spirit filled won't care what a male thinks of them because they aren't of this world anymore nor love the things of this world. Both are responsible it is going to take both parties acknowledging their folly and accept their sin, confess their sin, and Repent of their sin in order for this to see any results. When I do a message about modesty I get both sides of the coin a assure you, Sis. Men and Women are equally depraved spiritually and ALL need Jesus on the day of Judgment and in their everyday life.

*edit added Un to equality forgot it the first time :)*

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Matthew Guldner

I see this as a symptom of the low spiritual state of the church. Whenever there was true revival, there was a corresponding move to correct inequality of race or economic stature in the case of slavery. The inequality of women has never been addressed as a problem in the church but perhaps this will be so if men do bow down to God and allow Him to bring another revial.

In Germany the society is much more egalitarian than the US or UK and I see this as the reason why you do not see young girls or indeed young men in the streets showing off ther wares (I suspect that homosexuals display such behaviour). I don`t know whether this is a traditional thing or the reasult of the effort made after WW2 to purge discrimination.

It is a mistake to think that the church is not affected by this however. It has been mentioned on this thread about how Christian men are being hypercritical on this matter, preaching modesty and looking at immodest women even in the presence of their own women.

I must say I am not surprised at the lack of responses on this thread and the lack of condemnation towards that pastor who is not calling men to repent.

I agree wholeheartily. In all reality its a very vicious cycle to look at culturally. Women want a mate, find that they can attract a mate by lowering their standard of dress but by doing so lower their standard of mate they attract, Men on the other side of the coin are looking for a mate and see all these beautiful females while seemingly ignoring any that have modesty for a good looking girl rather than a girl that has personality or morals. I really hate blaming society because our society is a corrupt one, As Christians we aren't to conform to the pattern of this world any longer. I would say that ALL Christians male and female need to set a higher standard for themselves. And I definitely see where you are coming from and I again acknowledge this deficeincy of the Male side of the church.

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Matthew Guldner

All I can respond with is that it is a failing to not see the wood for looking at the trees. Men might get a better hearing if they were not trying to put all of the blame on women by refusing to address their part in it or rather the part of the damage done in society. Women still feel like second class citizens in the church - in fact sometimes it is worse than the world outside - Eve and all that.

So would the message of the preacher on that message would have been received better if He was a woman rather being a man? I am not saying this for argument but for understanding, Should that preacher only speak on how corrupt man is and why they are to blame since he is a man or should the message have been equally yoked with blame for why the things in the church are the way they are?

I believe that sometimes the play of society shows that men are strong, which I find the exact opposite to be true, Men are very weak creatures, and probably should be regarded as such even Christian men. I hold this to be true that our standard of living even in the Christian realm is dropping. This again I will say is a senseless argument because Man can say I stumble and fall because of the way you dress and a Woman can say I dress this way because society and even Christian men thrust this upon me to be socially accepting. Either way its a rather poor excuse and I assure you, you will sound rather silly before a HOLY and JUST God saying Well Those Rotten Women dressed terribly or a woman saying You don't understand God I was a second class citizen on earth and so in order to be noticed or accepted I HAD to dress that way.

God gives us a Standard for US ALL, Its our job to strive after that standard and care very little what others think or react or even how they treat us. As I said earlier Women Dress Purely, MEN KEEP Your EYES PURE. We can go round and round with this argument of men in the church pushing stuff on woman in society and Church and men being the victim of a immodest woman that seeks attention. The issue of Equality of Woman I believe would make a great new thread, As for Dress and Modesty NEITHER SIDE has an Excuse for their action and Again I will accept FULL responsiblity for my action and treat them accordingly through repentance.

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Matthew Guldner

Edit: mguldner said it much better than I could.

Brenda,

I wish you would quit blaming the men for their 'weakness' in this area. Your dislike for males is coming on strong. Methinks your attitude is not Godlike at all. The abuse you allegedly suffered at the hand of males has poisoned your attitude and needs to be left at the cross for cleansing.

The thread here is about modesty and now your posts are subverting it by splitting hairs over other male/female issues.

Men have a legitimate complaint. And it is not only them who hate immodesty godly females do it too. Then there are the lesbians who are also attracted to the female body for lustful purposes...immodesty effects all regardless who does it.

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Sandra Miller

Males, I highly respect your bravery in speaking out on this issue, knowing you will risk the wrath of some.

God bless you!
ginnyrose

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Sandra Miller