| Poster | Thread | rbanks
Member
Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1330
| | Re: | | To all my brothers and sisters,
I just got back from going out of town to a womens prison for a visit. I also have a fellowship meeting tonight and have two preaching services tomorrow so Im sorry that I may not be able to respond to everyones post.
I praise God for you brother Mike for your work as a moderator and all that you mean to the body of Christ and Im sorry you saw it as you did and I will not try to defend myself. I am sorry if I offended anyone but I found it easy to write the way I did because of the introduction and then proceeding to call those entire things pagan just because they cant be found specifically in the bible. Everything is not pagan just because its not written word for word in the bible. However I do believe a lot is pagan going on in religious settings today but I believe we must be accurate in what they are. It is also alright brother for you to be harsh to me and I accept your apology before you did it and there are no hard feelings on my part toward you but only love in the Lord. I will give the hypocrisy thought more consideration, but I will not try to defend myself if you think I was, but let the Lord be my judge.
Reformer, I still hope to be of encouragement to you in the future and have considered your comment. I m not going to use the scripture where Jesus said call no man a fool because then you might think I was accusing you of directly calling me a fool but I love you reformer and believe you love me and wouldnt think that you would directly call me a fool. I do consider myself being called a fool for Christ though and thought of this scripture.
1 Corinthians 3:18-19 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
Your name on SI being reformer, I thought you might be part of the reformation movement and decided to give you a site to check out and also their review on the book. Please let me know what you think- you want offend me at all.
http://www.reformation21.org/shelf-life/pagan-christianity-exploring-roots-of-our-church-practices.php
Micah, you have been an inspiration to me with some very kind words to me, even if you havent agreed altogether with me, and I pray the Lord will show you the kindness you have shown me and more so.
Finally, I have said all I feel I need to say and am sorry if I offended anyone. I have peace concerning my obligation as a christian concerning this book and I know that the Holy Spirit will lead me into all truth and show me what pagan is and what is not pagan.
I do hope you all the best in Jesus!
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|  2009/7/18 14:44 | Profile | Miccah
Member
Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin
| | Re: | | Love you brother :-)
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Christiaan
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| | 2009/7/18 15:50 | Profile | Sarah4Him
Member
Joined: 2009/1/8
Posts: 13
| | Re: | | Dear rbanks,
Since you made us talk so long on the topic the least you can do is read the book and then come back and give us a long rant. :) At least this way we all would have got something from the conversation. :)
God bless you all,
Sarah |
| | 2009/7/18 16:02 | Profile | AbideinHim
Member
Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 5185
Louisiana
| | Re: | | "I praise God for you brother Mike for your work as a moderator and all that you mean to the body of Christ and Im sorry you saw it as you did and I will not try to defend myself. I am sorry if I offended anyone but I found it easy to write the way I did because of the introduction and then proceeding to call those entire things pagan just because they cant be found specifically in the bible. Everything is not pagan just because its not written word for word in the bible. However I do believe a lot is pagan going on in religious settings today but I believe we must be accurate in what they are. It is also alright brother for you to be harsh to me and I accept your apology before you did it and there are no hard feelings on my part toward you but only love in the Lord. I will give the hypocrisy thought more consideration, but I will not try to defend myself if you think I was, but let the Lord be my judge."
Dear Brother,
I don't agree with you in everything that you have shared in this thread, but I appreciate your Christ like spirit in answering those that have disagreed with you.
It is not only speaking the truth and bringing forth correction that is needed, but the truth must come forth in the right spirit.
"And the Lords servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will." (2 Timothy 2:24-26)
Mike
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Mike
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| | 2009/7/18 16:27 | Profile | wind_blows
Member
Joined: 2009/1/4
Posts: 353
| | Re: | | SO, I saw this thread on this book and decided while I was visiting my friend to read it(she has a copy) I must say I really liked the book. Lots of history and very interesting to learn how so much of these outside influenced came into the church. Reading got me looking into history more and I found many of the church groups today follow a lot of Roman Catholic traditions as well.
Thanks for opening up the discussion about the book:-) I give it two thumbs up and a must read for anyone interested in learning about "why" the church of today does some of the things it does:-)
My friend also has a copy of rethinking the wine skin so I am going to read it next:-)
Have a great weekend everyone
Elizabeth
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| | 2009/7/18 16:39 | Profile | Lysa
Member
Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!
| | Re: Sarah4Him | | Quote:
Sarah4Him wrote:
Dear rbanks,
Since you made us talk so long on the topic the least you can do is read the book and then come back and give us a long rant. :) At least this way we all would have got something from the conversation. :)
God bless you all,
Sarah
Rbanks, she has valid point and one that hit my funny bone! I rolled after reading this!
:-P :-P
God bless everyone! (still laughing)
_________________
Lisa
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| | 2009/7/18 17:32 | Profile |
| | Re: | |
i derived my name from reformation theology, during a time of questioning many things I stumbled upon this doctrine, it spoke to me, assured me that the things I was asking myself was confirmed in this doctrine. However now again, i am struggling with some notions within this doctrine, such as lordship salvation, but that is another thread.
I so wish I choose a name that made more sense, it sounds a bit arrogant now, but I can't change it.
As far as the article, I read it as just another critic. I feel that the article errored in saying,
[i]"I was doubtless asked to review this book because of the many years I have spent studying ancient and modern paganism. Great, therefore, [u]was my surprise to discover the absence of any definition of the term"[/u][/i], speaking of the definition of paganism.
I don't have my book right now, its being borrowed by a friend. In his book, Viola explains his use of the word "pagan"...maybe someone else may be able to clarify it from the book. But what I did find on the internet was a sample of the first few pages. I believe we should look at the whole context of what Viola was writing, since the administrator did not state the whole case. Portion from page 6 of PG.
"Strikingly, much of what we do for church was lifted directly out of pagan culture in the postapostolic period. (Legend tells us the
last surviving apostle, John, died around AD 100.) According to Paul F. Bradshaw, fourth-century Christianity absorbed and Christianized
[color=000099]pagan religious ideas and practices[/color], seeing itself as the fulfillment to which earlier religions had dimly pointed.7 [b][u]While today we often use the word pagan to describe those who claim no religion whatsoever[/u][/b], [b][color=990000]to the early Christians[/color][/b], pagans were those polytheists who followed the gods of the Roman Empire., which was taken from Quote:
Note 7: Paul F. Bradshaw, The Search for the Origins of Christian Worship (New York: Oxford University Press, 1992), 65; Durant, Caesar and
Christ, 575, 599600, 610619, 650651, 671672.
So I don't see how the administrator from Reformation21 comes to that conclusion that Viola means this as the specific definition. I believe its a transitional meaning Viola was saying, especially when the Reformation21 administrator was already on the defensive.
[b][i]"The title, Pagan Christianity, is misleading, even if the subtitle is clear. I was doubtless asked to review..."[/b][/i]
Also in the article..."Absent also is any reference to the rise of paganism in our contemporary world..." again Viola touches on this throughout the book. You don't need to read the book to see that contemporary influences are rampant in the church...again the administrator, claims because Viola doesn't mention the Emergent movement and Spiritual movement and its leaders, he basically has missed the boat. But maybe that is another book for another time, just because it is not highlighted in the book doesn't mean that Viola is not against it. Plus, if you are born again believer, filled with the Holy Spirit you would hopefully know that Oprah, Deepak and the others are more than just pagan, but heretical and lost.
Quote:
[b] from the article: "either of the Deepak Chopra/Oprah Winfrey/New Spirituality variety, or of the variety popular in some parts of the liberal wing of the Emergent Movement, which is driving great swathes of Evangelicalism into the arms of "progressive Christian" liberalism.
[/b]
Anyways I think that is all I have to say for not...with all sincerity, I am not against someone going to a church building on Sunday, deep down I do hope I can find one to gather. but for now I trust that the Lord has me where He wants me...He has placed me in the wilderness...for a season or longer I do not know. but I know that He is doing a work, that will be completed for His glorify, either I will find out I have been wrong and disobedient or I have been lead correctly...either way He will be glorified, I will decrease and He will increase. You must understand, many have left the church institution for reasons that you may not understand...it does not necessarily mean they are wrong...each person must follow the Lord, whether it takes them the short distance, or the long way around. God is in control, if you are seeking Him. we can't put God in a box of the traditional church system...saying that God only operates within these parameters! God is spirit and we must worship Him in Spirit and Truth. if we confine Him to a certain way...we will not see Him as we ought. We will just be like Martha, busy...instead of Mary, worshiping Him not in a place or setting but whenever and wherever. She was sitting at His feet in a house, kitchen, maybe even on a dirty floor.
I better stop...i can go on...and on...think i posted more than I should.
Blessings
Reformer(mike)
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| | 2009/7/18 22:16 | | rbanks
Member
Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1330
| | Re: | | Quote:
reformer wrote:
Anyways I think that is all I have to say for not...with all sincerity, I am not against someone going to a church building on Sunday, deep down I do hope I can find one to gather. but for now I trust that the Lord has me where He wants me...He has placed me in the wilderness...for a season or longer I do not know. but I know that He is doing a work, that will be completed for His glorify, either I will find out I have been wrong and disobedient or I have been lead correctly...either way He will be glorified, I will decrease and He will increase. You must understand, many have left the church institution for reasons that you may not understand...it does not necessarily mean they are wrong...each person must follow the Lord, whether it takes them the short distance, or the long way around. God is in control, if you are seeking Him. we can't put God in a box of the traditional church system...saying that God only operates within these parameters! God is spirit and we must worship Him in Spirit and Truth. if we confine Him to a certain way...we will not see Him as we ought. We will just be like Martha, busy...instead of Mary, worshiping Him not in a place or setting but whenever and wherever. She was sitting at His feet in a house, kitchen, maybe even on a dirty floor.
I better stop...i can go on...and on...think i posted more than I should.
Blessings
Reformer(mike)
I love you in the Lord my brother reformer and agree with you more than you know. I pray that God bless you beyond your imagination.
Ephesians 3:20-21 (KJV) 20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
Philippians 4:19 (KJV) But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
I most appreciate you checking out the site and your honesty and I definitely dont condemn you for loving the Lord and striving to do what is pleasing to him. I must say this has been a very enlightening experience for me and has caused me to try to understand others better. I am definitely not against house churches or any kind of gathering that worships God through Christ Jesus in Spirit and in truth.
Blessings to you!
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| | 2009/7/19 0:15 | Profile |
| | Re: | | I too have been enlightened and encouraged through this discussion. I personally think these sort of discussions are fruitful for both sides, hopefully not to put our guard up firmer when someone may disagree, but that we would be open to the possibility of learning something new and considering what others say.
Blessings to you
Reformer |
| | 2009/7/19 10:16 | | ADisciple
Member
Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada
| | Re: | | Quote:
AbideinHim wrote:
I praise God for the godly men and women that are participating in this thread and that have a heart for God.
The Lord is going to get us to the place that we need to be as we seek Him with all of our hearts.
For many of us, we have a glimpse of what God is wanting to do in our lives and ministries, but we are not sure what we are to do to bring it to come to pass.
Praise God that we can pray to Him for wisdom and He will lead us in the way that we should go. The Lord is building His Church, and He is positioning His Body to the place that we all need to be.
The Lord can only give His grace to the humble. He can only teach those that are teachable, and that are willing to change and become the new wineskins that will hold the new wine.
Mike
I found the above comment from back a ways in this thread very perceptive, and was encouraged by it, particularly this: "For many of us, we have a glimpse of what God is wanting to do in our lives and ministries, but we are not sure what we are to do to bring it to come to pass."
Many of us are in a place like this. I know I am, and I don't want to mess up God's plan by trying to fulfill it in my own understanding.
I'm in a wilderness myself, like Reformer a couple of posts back, where he said he is in a wilderness these days, "for a season."
"Going to church" is generally so deeply ingrained into our thinking that we are sure we are going to die when we find ourselves in a wilderness walking alone at times. Never mind an "institutional church" so called, maybe we can't even find a home church that has the Cloud hovering over it.
But when you read through Scripture, you discover that God led different ones into a wilderness. When they came out on the other end of it, they were men of God... that is, the ones who received it as from God, and kept their hearts right.
AD
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Allan Halton
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| | 2009/7/19 11:16 | Profile |
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