Heb 12:5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons, "My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when you are rebuked by Him; for whom the Lord loves He chastens, and He scourges every son whom He receives." If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons, for what son is he whom the father does not chasten? But if you are without chastisement, of which all are partakers, then you are bastards and not sons. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh who corrected us, and we gave them reverence. Shall we not much rather be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live?
For truly they chastened us for a few days according to their own pleasure, but He for our profit, that we might be partakers of His holiness. Now chastening for the present does not seem to be joyous, but grievous. Nevertheless afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who are exercised by it .Because of this, straighten up the hands which hang down and the enfeebled knees.
And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way, but let it rather be healed. Follow peace with all, and holiness, without which no one shall see the Lord; looking diligently lest any fail of the grace of God, or lest any root of bitterness .

The cauldron of our afflictions.

How does the Lord chasten us? If, the Scriptures say, we are without chastisement, then we are bastards. Is that not the strongest of language? It literally says that we are bastards and not sons. Should this very Scripture not give every genuine Christian a strong desire to be chastened of the Lord. If our lives are without this, then should we not examine our lives? The Scriptures go on to say that He scourges every son he receives. How many sermons do we hear on this subject? To be scourged in Biblical times was to have the flesh ripped from your back. It peals open the flesh and exposes the nerves and it could be so horrific that it often led to death. And yet the Scriptures here say that every son of the living God will be scourged.

How is this to be reconciled with a loving Father? The Scriptures give us this example "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh who corrected us, and we gave them reverence. Shall we not much rather be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? "

So what does this "scourging," this ripping of the flesh look like to us Western Christians who seemingly live a life without persecution? How are we sanctified? How is our flesh killed in these modern days? When we gave our lives to Christ, when we came and gladly laid down our lives(one can come no other way) we gave ourselves over to Him. We were forgiven of our sins, we were justified in the sight of God. And so, justification having been attained, how now are we sanctified, how are we shaped into the image of our Lord and Saviour Jesus?

A man commits a murder and is sentenced to life in prison without parole. After a year in prison, he lays down his life, he discovers Jesus, he is born again. His sins are forgiven, he is justified, his eternal soul is secured. Is he now released from prison? Does he not continue to suffer the consequences of his actions from an earthly perspective? Yes he does, and why should he not? He has found redemption and will live forever in the presence of God, but this has no bearing on his earthly actions. Perhaps by some miracle , at some point, he may be released, that is certainly a possibility if the Lord had a plan for him outside the prison walls, but generally he will not be released. He owes a debt to society and it will be paid. The debt that he owed to God was paid by Jesus.

He is required to act in a Godly way and according to the leading of the Holy Spirit and Scripture, regardless of the fact that his circumstances are harsh. His circumstances are harsh because of his actions, yet God will enable him , in the yielding process, to overcome his circumstances. His cry should not be, "Lord deliver me from this place," his cry should be that he would be enabled to die to his flesh and become more like His Lord.

A man lives the homosexual lifestyle. He contracts aids. In the midst of his battle with the disease, he discovers Jesus Christ and is saved. He is justified in the sight of God. How is he now sanctified? Does he still have aids? Yes. His salvation has no bearing upon his disease, unless the Lord wants to heal him for His own purpose and glory. Untreated, will he not die from his disease? Yes, this is a natural consequence of his own actions. How then is he sanctified in the midst of dying? His very circumstances are the means of his sanctification.

Now there are many means to sanctification. We are sanctified in our daily interaction with people and how we respond to them. Do we love our brothers and sisters in Christ? Do we forgive ? Do we not take offence? Do we allow or not, bitterness to take root as we are mistreated in the course of our lives in general? All of these cause us to grow more like Christ or stunt our growth depending on our responses in every given situation. This is common to every Christian. Yet, where does the scourging come from? How do we get to the depths of who we are and die to that?

Your life lived will determine your scourging. The sin and the dysfunction of who you were, is the fire of your affliction. The cauldron of your afflictions, your scourging's, is filled with the life that you led prior to coming to Christ and decisions that we make after coming to Him. The natural consequences of every action that we take, every decision that we make will become the refining fires of our lives. We can blame no third party for this. This has no bearing on forgiveness.

We know that He is faithful to forgive us of all of our sins that confess to Him. This has no bearing on His love for us, for He is a loving Father who wants only the best for us. This has no bearing on our eternal security, for we know that no force can snatch us from His hand. Let us then submit to the trials of life. Let surrender be the order of the day. Do not bemoan your outward circumstances, only embrace Christ and walk in the Spirit of the living God. Only in this will you allow your flesh to die and move deeper into Him. This attitude is the antidote to self-pity and self-justification. Under no circumstances are we justified in un-Christ-like behavior. When we move in this direction, when we understand the nature of our scourging's, we can truly position ourselves to surrender and death and with that comes peace.

This peace which surpasses all understanding comes within the circumstances themselves, and not when we are alleviated from them. It can only come in the midst of the fire. The question is, do we really want to be more like Christ? Do we really want this peace? Or, do we simply wish an escape from our circumstances, most of which are of our own making. God is a God of perfect justice and the scope of that perfect justice is a frightful thing indeed, but only to those who seek to justify themselves.........Frank

I want to jot a few thoughts that came up. I have recently got and started reading the book called "The Heavenly Man". It is the story of brother Yun (see top 50 downloads for his testimony.) He was called to preach the word at an age of 16. He has been persecuted for his faith, in our generation, to a degree I thought was a thing of the past.
God does not punish me for my sins, it is often the result of our sins and not His punishment. But to the extent that even these "laws of cause and effect" were put in place by God's justice and righteousness, we can attribute it from God, but no further. Yes the cause of sin. Then again in HIS mercy, often he does not allow us to reap all that we sowed. Like in Amos the ploughman often overtakes the reaper. For He is a Father who does not take joy in our suffering but chastizes us only when needed for our best.
But the punishment for the same has been borne by Jesus on the cross. Isa 53:5 But He was wounded for our transgressions; He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was on Him; and with His stripes we ourselves are healed.
But then why do people who have not done such horrible deeds like murder still seem to suffer, often worse than murderers?
I can site a few things which I have been shown, but it is not all inclusive.
But before that, we need to start with this fact that God loves me and He has planned it all for my very best. It is this absolute trust in God the Father and HIS love,that helped Jesus to say Thy will be done, that gave HIM the courage to endure the cross. But even much before, the daily suffering He endured when He emptied HIMSELF and became a man, with the possibilty of sinning (though HE never sinned.) And it is only this revelation that can help us joyfully endure till the end.
1. In corinthians it says we go through tough times so that we are prepared for ministry. So that we can help other who are going throught the same.
2. In Job's life it shows that it is for testimony among the heavenlies.
3. In James it says, because it makes us more and more likes Jesus, as we grow in patience and towards perfection.
4. Just proves that this world is still under the curse of sin. Don't we all fall sick!?
5. A witness to the gospel of peace that passeth understanding, of joy unspeakable and love that endures irrespective of the circumstances
6. Because the world is against us and so is the devil and his demons. Plotting against those who are God's. But nothing prevails, unless God allows it for better a purpose.
7. Again in James, for the testing our faith. So that the chaff is burnt. So that our weakness can be exposed, so that we can rectify the same in repentance and grace from God.
8. Because it is an honour to suffer for Christ who suffered and died for me. Not all are counted worthy.
I hope I haved added to the orginal post.
So let us be rooted in this one simple fact that God loves me more than anybody else I know and He plans out the best for me. So even though at times I may not understant the reasons, I can be at rest in HIS unconditional love that will never fail.

Hi brother

You have indeed added to the post. I wanted to stimulate the very aspects that you have discussed because I believe that it is not much taught on these days. I have read brother Yun's book, and I was greatly blessed. Can I also reccommend his lates book, which is a series of his sermons called""Living Waters."

I think we can sum up your many points by the age old question, in fact it goes back to the book of Job , "Why do bad things happen to good people." And also the question that rings througout the psalms "why do the wicked prosper."

Jesus did bear our punishments upon the cross of this there is no doubt. And in His mercy we often do not reap all that we sow, that is for sure.Yet it is undoubted that the Christian will have many trials, some from without, some from within. Some it is for a witness to the world, some is for our own sanctification, the purposes of every event can be multi-faceted.

He does plan the best for us, but that statement needs some deeper thought, it is not as the world would understand it. The lord cultivates the treasures of our hearts. They are peace and joy and faith and love and mercy and forgiveness and so on. He loved the Apsotles and wanted "the best," for them. Yet, all died horribly and were treated outrageously by the world. Did He let them down? No, on that I am sure we agree. So, the Lord's "best," for someone can be radically different from what we may imagine. Whatever brings us into a deeper walk with Him, is what is best for us.

If one is to go in and purchase a diamond, it is usually displayed upon black velvet. The blackness of the background causes the brillinace of the diamond to be shown in its best light. This is often the case with Chritianity. Against the backdrop of a wicked dark world, the brilliant light of Christianity shines greatly. I have two examples for your consideration. About 20 years ago, the IRA terrorists exploded a bomb in a public place. Many were killed. One of those killed was a young woman who was with her father. They were buried under rubble togehter and the father held his daughters hand as her life slipped away. The public were outraged by this event. Yet, the father, who was a born-again Christian, came on TV and publicly stated that he held no animosity towards the killers of his daughter, in fact he forgave them. This statement caused an outrage in and of itself and many were angry at this man.

My mothers best friend, a family friend for over 30 years had her son killed by drug dealers, shot down in the street with five bullets and left to die in my hometown of Greenock. Shortly aftrewards she publickly stated that she forgave her son's murderers and was able to praise God at his funeral. To make matters worse, the police knew the murderer but did not have enough evidence, he still walks the streets of Greenock today. These Christians are operating at the highest end of faith and love and obedience. Was it God's fault that their children were killed? No. Was it God who killed the Apostles? No. Did God let these people down ? No. As Chritians, we are called to lay down our lives, spiritually and perhaps physically. Justice is mine says the Lord and all things will end in justice, we must believe that and walk in the light of His love regardless of our circumstance.

Php 1:27 Only let your conduct be as becomes the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you, or else am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, striving together with one mind for the faith of the gospel,Php 1:28 and terrified in nothing by your adversaries. For this is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.
Php 2:15 so that you may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation. Among these you shine as lights in the world,
Php 2:16 holding forth the Word of Life.........Frank