| Poster | Thread | RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: | | I was speaking along the lines of materialism and consumerism a bit Sunday Morning and a brother commented at the end about Ravi Zacharias' [url=http://htod.cdncon.com/o2/rzimht/MP3/LMPT/LMPTCD134-2.mp3]Saturday Evening Program. [/url] Ravi states towards the latter half of the message that he wonders if God views America's game shows as just as pornographic as sensual programming because of the ways that the eyes glisten and the crowd goes wild at the thought of winning a car or a boat. It is an observation I have shared for some time, but it is refreshing to hear it on mainstream Christian radio. Materialism is the form of lust (covetousness) that generally goes [u]un[/u]rebuked in our times.
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Robert Wurtz II
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|  2008/11/13 10:15 | Profile | rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
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Savannah TN
| | Re: | | Imagine the eyes of those who obeyed the King of Babylon 2400 years ago...
Dan 3:4 Then a herald cried aloud: "To you it is commanded, O peoples, nations, and languages,
Dan 3:5 that at the time you hear the sound of the horn, flute, harp, lyre, and psaltery, in symphony with all kinds of music, you shall fall down and worship the gold image that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up;
Dan 3:6 and whoever does not fall down and worship shall be cast immediately into the midst of a burning fiery furnace."
Dan 3:7 So at that time, when all the people heard the sound of the horn, flute, harp, [and] lyre, in symphony with all kinds of music, all the people, nations, and languages fell down [and] worshiped the gold image which King Nebuchadnezzar had set up.
Imagine the daily playing of the song...nations and peoples and tongues... stopping and bowing down to the image made of gold that stood in the province of Babylon. They are surrounded by the things that earthly man treasures. They are trained to sing a song that the harlot has spread throughtout the kingdom.
Just imagine...the vainity of it all.
In Christ
Jeff
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Jeff Marshalek
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| | 2008/11/14 10:14 | Profile | RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: | | I had a thought today I have not had before. You will notice that the world is described as the:
1) The lust of the flesh (pleasure)
2) lust of the eyes (possessions)
3) pride of life (popularity)
This is an ungodly and unholy trinity at odds with the One True God. If you ask what is the world, the answer is these 3, but the 3 are actually 1. This is the god of this world manifest.
This is where the unregenerate find pleasure.
This is where the unregenerate have their treasure (possessions).
This is where the unregenerate develop their sense of identity (popularity).
This is what the unregenerate 'trusts' in. I guess I'm just a day late and a dollar short sometimes, but it seems to me that this world system that is growing in strength like a huge black hole- is drawing many into itself in a deeper and deeper way. Even believers are leaving off trusting God and finding their pleasure, treasure and identity in this world and being increasingly drawn into it.
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Robert Wurtz II
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| | 2008/11/14 10:52 | Profile | RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
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St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: | | I had a separate thought that this world is coming together like a global city. It is like we are headed for a world wide [u]city[/u] of Babylon.
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Robert Wurtz II
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| | 2008/11/14 10:56 | Profile | rookie
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Posts: 4821
Savannah TN
| | Re: | | 1Jo 2:14 I have written to you, fathers, Because you have known Him [who is] from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, Because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, And you have overcome the wicked one.
1Jo 2:15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jo 2:16 For all that [is] in the world--the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life--is not of the Father but is of the world.
1Jo 2:17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.
Brother Robert...
I see a little more clearly based on the thoughts you shared...
John writes...
Because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, And you have overcome the wicked one...then in the next verse....
Do not love the world or the things in the world...
then he writes....
For all that [is] in the world--the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life--is not of the Father but is of the world.
For ........all..........that is in the world....the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life...is of this world
And the world is passing away, and the lust of it...
Quote:
It is like we are headed for a world wide city of Babylon.
...we see cities building towers all over this earth....each competing to build higher than the rest....Chicago, New York, Taipei, Dubai, Shanghi, Nanjing, Hong Kong, Kuala Lampur....
Just a thought
In Christ
Jeff
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Jeff Marshalek
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| | 2008/11/14 12:52 | Profile | rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
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Savannah TN
| | Re: | | Another thought...as a side note...
Rev 17:15 Then he said to me, "The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.
Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which you saw on [fn] the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire.
Rev 17:17 For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.
Rev 17:18 And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth."
Rev 18:1 After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illuminated with his glory.
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily [fn] with a loud voice, saying, "Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become a dwelling place of demons, a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird!
Rev 18:3 For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury."
Look closely...the ten kings destroy the harlot...
that brings to mind the destruction of the World Trade Center in New York. The towers that were destroyed represented 'world trade.' The prince responsible for the action does not have a kingdom. By his actions, he hates the harlot.
Just a thought...
In Christ
Jeff
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Jeff Marshalek
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| | 2008/11/14 14:48 | Profile | RobertW
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St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: | | Quote:
that brings to mind the destruction of the World Trade Center in New York. The towers that were destroyed represented 'world trade.'
The Babylon is Fallen passage came strongly to mind as I watched the Towers Fall. I have wondered about it and have had other tell me that's what they thought also.
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Robert Wurtz II
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| | 2008/11/14 15:21 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Here is what the creator of the towers had to say about them upon their completion....
"I feel this way about it. World trade means world peace and consequently the World Trade Center buildings in New York ... had a bigger purpose than just to provide room for tenants. The World Trade Center is a living symbol of man's dedication to world peace ... beyond the compelling need to make this a monument to world peace, the World Trade Center should, because of its importance, become a representation of man's belief in humanity, his need for individual dignity, his beliefs in the cooperation of men, and through cooperation, his ability to find greatness."
Minoru Yamasaki
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| | 2008/11/14 18:28 | | ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779
| | Re: | | Hello...
Quote:
that brings to mind the destruction of the World Trade Center in New York. The towers that were destroyed represented 'world trade.'
I don't think that those towers represented "world trade" to the Islamic terrorists who used a couple of US airplanes filled with foreign oil to destroy them. To the terrorists, those towers represented American financial superiority (according to the taped confessions that they left behind).
On the other hand, the twin towers were part of "World Trade Center" (a collection of other towers housing offices for international commerce). There are other "world trade centers" in cities throughout the United States (and in other parts of the world).
Is there a problem with trading with the rest of the world? World trade, so to speak, has existed long before anyone discovered the western world. In fact, one could argue that the desire for world trade (in particular, safe routes to Indian and Chinese spices) was the reason Christopher Columbus sailed in the first place.
I understand that God will allow "Babylon the Great" to be destroyed. But do you suppose that God will allow this solely as a judgment against trade? Or is the "trade" part just a by-product of the destruction of that place?
I have heard many preachers preach on "Babylon the great." I have heard them preach emphatically that the Babylon spoken of in the book of Revelation is everything from New York, America, San Francisco, the Catholic Church (or the Vatican in Rome), a physically recreated "Babylon" in Iraq, and even the extensive financial system of this world. The Bible is not entirely clear about where this "Babylon" is located (although the "seven hills" does seem to physically indict "he city of seven hills," Rome).
For the past year, I have been thinking about the creation of a European Union...along with a single European country. The Euro is an extremely strong currency (rising for years against the dollar, but much less stable). We know that the Antichrist will rise, not from a one world government, but as a leader of a 10 nation confederation (how many nations are part of the European Union?) that will cause anyone who buys or sells to take a mark on their right hand or forehead. I know that Babylon sounds an awful lot like the America of today (and even the Rome of John's day), but it makes me wonder if a radical shift could cause Europe to become the premiere world economic power?
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Christopher
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| | 2008/11/15 0:43 | Profile | Compton
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| | Re: | | Quote:
I know that Babylon sounds an awful lot like the America of today (and even the Rome of John's day), but it makes me wonder if a radical shift could cause Europe to become the premiere world economic power?
Well, as long we're speculating ;-) ...who says that the revived empire the prophets foresaw excluded the United States? In some important ways we are intertwined with Europe as much as any European nation.
Certainly Militarily speaking the US is vital for the defense of Europe, and it will be many decades before that can change even with a strong Euro. France and Germany are planning on using no more than 1.4 of their GDP on military spending through 2012, a low number made possible by being benefactors of The United States military investment of 4.6 GDP. This could imply that Europe and the US are closer to being joined then we might want to admit. In short, for the 21st century, militarily speaking, we are one alliance.
From that perspective, and from a cultural perspective, we Americans might make more hullabaloo of our Declaration of Independence from Continental Europe then perhaps heaven does. Some have speculated that since the US isn't mentioned specifically in scripture that we must necessarily become irrelevant through war or economic collapse. I think there might be a different explanation for a lack of specific reference to the US in scripture. After-all, other European nations such as France and Germany aren't mentioned by name either. In a world with many emerging non-western powers, the different western nations may simply have been viewed by ancient prophets as different parts of a single western empire.
Of course, I don't take myself that seriously when I speculate like this. :smart:
MC
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Mike Compton
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| | 2008/11/15 2:49 | Profile |
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