| Poster | Thread |
| | Re: | | Quote:
ginnyrose wrote:
About church membership: If there were no membership, you would have wolves come in and destroy a brotherhood and once they have accomplished it, will run off. Actually, methinks this question is rooted in an independent spirit that does not want to submit to others which is anathema to brotherhood. (EDIT: The moderators prefer a scripture to substantiate a position: here is one: consider 1 Corinthians 5.)
Hi Ginny
I'm not sure what you are talking about here :-? What difference can "membership" make to the risk of "wolves"? And how can lack of it possibly show an independent spirit, or lack of submission one to another?
These things can happen whether there is official membership or not. How can having or not having membership prevent it?
That doesn't make sense!
in Him
Jeannette
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|  2008/2/3 18:57 | | ginnyrose
Member
Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi
| | Re: | | Quote:
I'm not sure what you are talking about here What difference can "membership" make to the risk of "wolves"? And how can lack of it possibly show an independent spirit, or lack of submission one to another?
Good question...
In 1Corinthians 12 the scriptures refers to the church as a body, using the human body as an analogy as to how it works, interdependent on each other for its functions, survival. The function of the church is to build each other up, to edify each other, to assist each other, just like human body does. No part of our body is of any use to the other if it is disconnected. That is why churches will have guidelines, or by-laws - whatever you want to call it- to spell out briefly what the gospel is all about and gives the leaders - as well as anyone else who is a member there - a framework from which to minister, to serve.
Now how does this prevent wolves from coming in? It is no guarantee it still cannot or will not happen, but you are opening the door for it by not requiring [i]something[/i] from the members. Membership means commitment to each other, to assist in their welfare, be it spiritual, physical, or material. Without this commitment, the brotherhood will not (or should not) allow such a person to occupy positions of leadership. Let me tell you a story. This happened just recently.
A gifted couple started attending a church. This church had membership rolls but seemed to have ignored its role in how they did church. Anyhow, this man was very gifted and before too long the man was teaching Sunday School and such like. In the meantime, he was backstabbing the leadership, and people started leaving and this couple did, too. And then the church disbanded. Extreme? you could say the church's leadership was weak and that is true. In any case, they could not withstand the onslaught this wolf brought with him. Members can become 'wolves' as well. And if this happens the church will exercise its authority to silence him/her by excommunication.
Pain to the body means something is hurting and needs immediate attention. When you are disconnected from the body, that pain cannot be shared and felt.
Benefits of church membership? It is all about brotherhood. And how often does this expression appear in the NT? The saints are referred to brothers, sisters. In my part of the globe brothers and sisters are connected by blood. We are committed to each other. In the church we are connected by the Blood of Jesus who is our head and so we work to support, assist each other. Like a family or a team.
Make sense?
ginnyrose
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Sandra Miller
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| | 2008/2/3 21:32 | Profile | Miccah
Member
Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin
| | Re: | | [u][b]Acts 2:46-47[/b][/u]
So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.
I don't know about signing a card to say that I am a part of something. It kind of reminds me of the good old "pinky swear" that we used to do. [i]Or this:[/i]
[u][b]Matthew 5:33-35 [/b][/u]
"Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King.
So would taking part in a man made ritual of claiming membership in the church be considered the same as Mat 5:33-34? I don't know. My oath is to the Lord, and not to a man made custom.
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Christiaan
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| | 2008/2/4 0:30 | Profile | ginnyrose
Member
Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi
| | Re: | | Miccah,
Matthew 5: 37 says:"But let your statement be, 'Yes, yes' or 'No, no'; anything beyond these is of evil." This verse , just a few verses below the reference you shared, informs us that we will be saying 'yes' or 'no' to people. It is swearing that Jesus is prohibiting in verses 34-36. I have never heard that becoming a member of a church is akin to oath making. If it is, you better high-tail (run) out of there: it is not a God - fearing church. A God - fearing church will not require one to violate any of Jesus directives to become a member. Is this saying it too strong? Yes, I have heard of churches who think they are the only organized church going to heaven, but I do not find that in my Bibles, be it NASB, or the KJV. The churches I am acquainted with do not require a card to be signed. And if a church does require it, does it say you will be faithful to this particular church until death? That should raise a red flag if it does because that is a promise one may not be able to fulfil because one does not know the future that well.
What say? Make sense?
ginnyrose
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Sandra Miller
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| | 2008/2/4 14:46 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
ginnyrose wrote:
Miccah,
Matthew 5: 37 says:"But let your statement be, 'Yes, yes' or 'No, no'; anything beyond these is of evil." This verse , just a few verses below the reference you shared, informs us that we will be saying 'yes' or 'no' to people. It is swearing that Jesus is prohibiting in verses 34-36. I have never heard that becoming a member of a church is akin to oath making. If it is, you better high-tail (run) out of there: it is not a God - fearing church. A God - fearing church will not require one to violate any of Jesus directives to become a member. Is this saying it too strong? Yes, I have heard of churches who think they are the only organized church going to heaven, but I do not find that in my Bibles, be it NASB, or the KJV. The churches I am acquainted with do not require a card to be signed. And if a church does require it, does it say you will be faithful to this particular church until death? That should raise a red flag if it does because that is a promise one may not be able to fulfil because one does not know the future that well.
What say? Make sense?
ginnyrose
Hi again Ginny
I'm commenting on this post, rather than the one addressed to me, because it begins to show me where you're coming from.
My experience with "membership" has mostly been of the type where you are exhorted to "become a member" to prove your loyalty to that church.
However faithful you are, for however many years, however hard you work for that church, you are still considered some kind of "second-class citizen" unless you "sign on the dotted line"! Indeed, in the last church I attended faithfully for over 3 years, until the Lord made it plain that the time had come to leave,(He wouldn't [i]let[/i] me "become a member"); their policy was that you could not do any official church work [i]unless[/i] you were a member.
Membership in the minds of these leaders seemed to confer some kind of protection on you (by being under their "covering"), as well as proving your loyalty and committment to that particular denomination. Yet they would probably consider themselves non-denominational, and they are part of a group that calls itself "Churches Without Borders"!
Quote:
The churches I am acquainted with do not require a card to be signed. And if a church does require it, does it say you will be faithful to this particular church until death? That should raise a red flag if it does because that is a promise one may not be able to fulfil because one does not know the future that well
Yes, there have been a few red flags along that way!
in Him
Jeannette |
| | 2008/2/4 15:53 | | Yelgab
Member
Joined: 2007/6/28
Posts: 7
Michigan
| | Re: | | I think it is perfectly fine and well to become a member, as long as you are comfortable with the churches beliefs and doctrin. I do not find any exact doctrin to support it, other that in the early churches found in Acts. Paul wrote to these churches by name. Thereby I would say membership was certainly implied. I have been a member of a local church for many years and I have been very happy there.
:-)
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Forrest
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| | 2008/2/4 16:32 | Profile | davidt
Member
Joined: 2006/5/21
Posts: 327
| | Re: Church Membership... is it Biblical? | | Krispy,
I believe so in a sense and in a sense not. At my first Church there was no such thing. It was actually frowned upon. However in our day of mega Church people walk in and out without even being noticed. Sometimes in a large congregation things need to be more formal and organized. I think it is wrong to be false about it like has been pointed out. However I see good that can come out of it. Like for instance I dont think it is biblical to have unsaved people tithing to your ministry, yet it seems most Churches will just take from whatever anonymous person gives. Also many Churches at their meetings will allow unsaved to come to their meetings for years in hopes that they will get converted so membership can be a good statement to them and also to the community so they dont believe that they are actually part of the Church if they are in error. I would like it done just to acknowledge those who have been walking with God righteously with God. Though my whole argument lies upon the Churches being large so it should probably jsut be broken into smaller groups and be more personal and none of that would have to be worried about. |
| | 2008/2/4 16:53 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
Paul wrote to these churches by name
Actually, thats not exactly true.
With the exception of a couple "say howdy to the church that meets in so-and-so's house", Paul actually wrote to all the churches in a particular city or region. All the churches were connected, and in many cases several churches in a city would be under the same eldership. They met in homes and it seems that all these little house churches were networked together creating a "church" as a whole in one city.
This was before we put up denominational walls to divide the Body of Christ. A great tradition handed down to us from the Reformers. (note the sarcasm)
Krispy |
| | 2008/2/4 17:12 | | Miccah
Member
Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin
| | Re: | |
KrispyKrittr wrote:
Quote:
They met in homes and it seems that all these little house churches were networked together creating a "church" as a whole in one city.
Krispy
One church in one city. This is what we have been praying for for the last 3 years. That all the body will come together under the banner of Jesus Christ with no denomonations.
Just as Paul wrote to one church consisting of one city.
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Christiaan
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| | 2008/2/5 23:52 | Profile | theopenlife
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Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926
| | Re: | | Interesting subject.
I've been involved in churches for about twelve years and not one of them had "membership", until recently. I've begun fellowshipping at a church in the town I moved to and they have membership.
Their rule is that only members may join in communion, but other than that nothing else is "restricted". If you are already a member of another church which teaches similarly (i.e. not Mormon, Roman Catholic, Unitarian) , you may also join in communion.
Their requirements for membership are that you conform to a basic orthodox statement of beliefs and are aware of the bible's teaching about discipleship and biblical church discipline.
I'm in the membership class right now. It is ten weeks long, the pastor is meeting with about eight of us personally and teaching us one hour lessons on the basic foundational doctrines of the faith. This lets the elders know where we are at and gives us a good idea of where the church is at.
I think it's wise, albeit not mandatory for all churches. The scriptures instruct shepherds to "know the flock" and it makes sense to get to know the sheep/goats before they enter the fold and begin espousing whatever winds of doctrine. |
| | 2008/2/6 0:49 | Profile |
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