SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Covenant

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Re: Covenant



Just dropping in here not having followed your links, Katy-did.


Regarding all the covenants before the New Covenant, they were made between God and fallen man. Noah and his descendents didn't have to do anything to keep that covenant, but in others, obedience was essential for it to work out.

Now, the New Covenant is different, because it was made between the Father and the Son. The Son - the Word - became Flesh, and as a man, kept man's side of that agreement, meaning that it can never fail for those who join it through the Son.

The benefit of the New Covenant is the gift of the Holy Spirit, to make the life of the Son real in our flesh, that we may live free from sin.

Entrance to this covenant is free to all who will believe:

Romans 10: end 8 - 13
the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.



In preparation for entering this covenent, it is necessary to repent from sin whole-heartedly, and to receive inner cleansing by the blood of Jesus Christ. This is a spiritual transaction also, as much as receiving the Holy Spirit is.

Dirk asked

Quote:
Now I want to know...what is this covenant, how can it relate to my everyday christian life? What's the strength, the promise of this covenant? All Christ, none of me..?

That's the deal, brother. :-D

 2007/11/28 13:05
DirkW
Member



Joined: 2007/11/16
Posts: 88
Netherlands

 Re:

Thanks a lot everybody. It's really usefull what you all posted. This clears up a lot. I'll study this and maybe I'll get back to this with other questions.

Glory be to God, amen.


_________________
Dirk

 2007/11/28 14:15Profile









 Re:

Quote:
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.



Hi Dorcas, isn't that wonderful, whosoever will may come.

Well, the Everlasting Covenant was made between Father Son and Holy Spirit, and the New Covenant needed to be fulfilled in order to fulfill part of the Everlasting Covenant...the Promise of the Holy Spirit, which came through the New Covenant.

There are remaining promises in the Everlasting Covenant, and that is referring to the remainder of Romans 11, ( All Israel will be saved, the setting up of the Earthly Kingdom etc,.....that comes under the Everlasting Covenant...first spoken of in Genesis 3:15. Although Jesus has bruised the head of Satan to those who have put their faith in Jesus Christ, Satan still has power and roams around like a roaring lion.

He will be bounded for 1000 years during the Kingdom Reign, and then loosed again for a short while, and then comes his ultimate end. Death and Hades will be thrown into the lake of Fire, all tears will be dried etc, etc, and death will be no more....that is the grand finally!

When Jesus died on the cross, the veil in the temple was rent, signifying the way into the Holy of Holies had been opened to whosoever will may come to God through Jesus Christ. We can only come to God or even approach God through Jesus Christ...through the veil, that is to say His flesh (I am crucified with Christ)buried with Him and raised a new creation. Only the New Creation In Christ can come boldly to the throne of Grace.

Now with Noah, there were two things, He was to replenish the earth, and also not to kill. I don’t know how many know that…Thou shall not Kill was given to Noah.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did
:-)

 2007/11/28 14:43









 Re: Covenant



Katy said

Quote:
Now with Noah, there were two things, He was to replenish the earth, and also not to kill. I don’t know how many know that…Thou shall not Kill was given to Noah.

Okay. Thanks for that. I see it's all in Genesis 9.

 2007/11/28 15:39









 Re:

Hi Dorcas,

There are wonderful insights into Noah.

The covenant promise was God would never destroy the earth by *water*. Nothing was said about fire.

We read in Revelation that parts of the earth during the Great tribulation will be destroyed by fire...but not all the earth. Peter tells us at the end of the age, after all has been fulfilled, the *whole earth* will melt away, and a New heaven and earth will be.

I also love in Peter, about the *TYPE*, Peter presents referring to Baptism, using this time of Noah's day, not the putting away of the sins of the flesh, but a Good Conscience towards God. That cleansing that comes. This is deep stuff.


Added for content:
1 Peter 3:19-21

19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21The like figure((((( or type and shadow of teh death and resurrection, and our identification with christ in death and resurrection) whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,))))) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Great stuff huh?

Also the day the ark rested on the seventeenth day of the seventh month was the exact day Jesus rose from the dead. I believe Noah in Hebrew means REST and PEACE.

Something I found interesting here lately in Revelation 10, The beginning reminds me of the Noah Covenant, and that those "In Christ", are protected from God's wrath to come.

Deep deep stuff with all the covenants....all pointed to or point to Jesus Christ.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did
:-)

 2007/11/28 16:37









 Re: Covenant



Katy-did said

Quote:
Also the day the ark rested on the seventeenth day of the seventh month was the exact day Jesus rose from the dead

Okay. I can believe this, but, [i]how do you know?[/i]

And, does this mean you can tell me exactly how many years passed between Noah's 17th of the 7th and Jesus'?

 2007/11/28 18:34
jayyou
Member



Joined: 2007/10/19
Posts: 136


 Re:

Dear brother BenWilliams,

Thank you ever so much for your comments, However I feel like we should go a little bit deaper, if you will allow me.

You started with Abraham, so I will do the same, It is always good to start from the beginning.

Please in future replies it would be nice to see the bible texts supporting your comments.


God had a covenant with abraham,
Genesis 17:4 "As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations.

Here is the covenant that God made with abraham but if you look a bit forward God tells Abraham that there is a condition to this covenant.
He must do something, Here it is...

Genesis 17:9-11 And God said to Abraham: "As for you, you shall keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations. 10 "This is My covenant which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: Every male child among you shall be circumcised; 11 "and you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between Me and you.

So far, we have,

A Promise, a duty and a sign.

The Promise = Genesis 17:2 And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly."

The Duty = Genesis 17:10 Every male child among you shall be circumcised;

The sign = Circumcision

it can also be made void =

Genesis 17:14 And the uncircumcised male child, who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant."

Let's move on onto the next important covenant.

Here in this One God start with the duties of the covenant.

Exodus 19:5 if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant,

The Promise = Exodus 19:5 then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine.

So far we have,

Promise = Exodus 19:5-6 then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. 6 'And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.

Duty = To obbey the Voice of the Lord God.

sign of the covenant.

I believe that the sign was also Circumcision, for the children of Israel had to be circumcised on the eighth day.

and we know that in between God gave them another covenant,

The covenant of the Sabbath.

Exodus 31:16-18 'Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. 17 'It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.' " 18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.



and God goes on saying,

Exodus 34:27-28 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Write these words, for according to the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel." 28 So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Later in Deuteronomy, Moses reread the words of the covenant,

Deuteronomy 4:13 "So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

And you can read the words of it on chapter 5, basically Moses reread God’s law or the words of the covenant.

Ok, I think we have established the Old covenant.
Now, We know that the old covenant was for Israel, the Ten commandments for Israel and although the Sabbath was a commandment within the Ten Commandments, God also Gave it as a separate covenant a perpetual covenant also for Israel.
And the sign of the covenant also was circumcision.
==================================================================================================


Let's move on onto the new covenant.

Jeremiah briefly talked about the Old Covenant and He used some harsh words.

Jeremiah 11:1-7 The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying, 2 "Hear the words of this covenant, and speak to the men of Judah and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem; 3 "and say to them, 'Thus says the LORD God of Israel: "Cursed is the man who does not obey the words of this covenant 4 "which I commanded your fathers in the day I brought them out of the land of Egypt, from the iron furnace, saying, 'Obey My voice, and do according to all that I command you; so shall you be My people, and I will be your God,' 5 "that I may establish the oath which I have sworn to your fathers, to give them 'a land flowing with milk and honey,' as it is this day." ' " And I answered and said, "So be it, LORD." 6 Then the LORD said to me, "Proclaim all these words in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem, saying: 'Hear the words of this covenant and do them. 7 'For I earnestly exhorted your fathers in the day I brought them up out of the land of Egypt, until this day, rising early and exhorting, saying, "Obey My voice."

Remember about the duty of the Old Covenant.

Exodus 19:5 if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant.

And Jeremiah goes on saying:

Jeremiah 11:8-11 'Yet they did not obey or incline their ear, but everyone followed the dictates of his evil heart; therefore I will bring upon them all the words of this covenant, which I commanded them to do, but which they have not done.' " 9 And the LORD said to me, "A conspiracy has been found among the men of Judah and among the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 10 "They have turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers who refused to hear My words, and they have gone after other gods to serve them; the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken My covenant which I made with their fathers." 11 Therefore thus says the LORD: "Behold, I will surely bring calamity on them which they will not be able to escape; and though they cry out to Me, I will not listen to them.






And we know what happens God punishes them by taking them into captivity.

Jeremiah 14:21 - 15:3 Do not abhor us, for Your name's sake; Do not disgrace the throne of Your glory. Remember, do not break Your covenant with us. 22 Are there any among the idols of the nations that can cause rain? Or can the heavens give showers? Are You not He, O LORD our God? Therefore we will wait for You, Since You have made all these.

NKJ Jeremiah 15:1 Then the LORD said to me, "Even if Moses and Samuel stood before Me, My mind would not be favorable toward this people. Cast them out of My sight, and let them go forth. 2 "And it shall be, if they say to you, 'Where should we go?' then you shall tell them, 'Thus says the LORD: "Such as are for death, to death; And such as are for the sword, to the sword; And such as are for the famine, to the famine; And such as are for the captivity, to the captivity." ' 3 "And I will appoint over them four forms of destruction,"

This is very serious, Do you remember when on mount Sinai, the people cast a golden calf and God said that He would destroy Israel and then He would make a new people out of Moses. And Moses pleaded with God and He changed His mind.

Well God was not open to discussion this time.

But again, God is love and He gets angry, He punishes us, chastens us but then He looks at us with love and then He always ends up giving us yet another opportunity.

Here is the NEW COVENANT.

Jeremiah 31:31-33 " Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah -- 32 "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. 33 "But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Now, it gets very interesting.

Now, we know that they broke the Covenant by not Obey His voice,
By worshiping other gods and by breaking the Sabbath to name a few.

We Know that the words of the covenant is the Ten Commandments.

Deuteronomy 4:13 "So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.


New Covenant (OT)

So we have,

Promise = Jeremiah 31:33 I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Duty = Obedience to the law He is going to put in our heart and minds.
Jeremiah 31:33 I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts;

Remember that in the old The law was written on stones.

Deuteronomy 4:13 "So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

The sign = Circumcision.

It goes back to Abraham,
Genesis 17:10 Every male child among you shall be circumcised;

Now, Remember that when God talked to Jeremiah about the New Covenant, Salvation was only for the Jew. Not yet to the Gentiles.

Again,

New covenant for Israel and the House of Judah.
Ten Commandments also for Israel.
Circumcision also for Israel.

Now, Let’s forward it to the NEW COVENANT (NT) that Paul talks about.

Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.

Paul clearly says that the first one wasn’t perfect, but why is that?
Look what He says:
Hebrews 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah –

Now we now why the first one was not faultless, because there was a problem with one of the parts ”””Them”””. Not the Lord, but Them.





Paul goes on saying:


Hebrews 8:9-10 "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD. 10 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Here He basically repeats what Jeremiah said.

I think that So far we have established

Old Covenant
New Covenant (OT)
New Covenant (NT)

So far we have this.

This New Covenant is still for Israel and the House of Judah,
This covenant still have some laws, for God said he would put His laws in our heart and minds, so I think it is pretty safe to guess that we have the duty of obedience, or hearing His voice.
And also we have the sign,
For if you are a Jew, you have to be circumcised.


Now Here comes the big Problem.


HOW I, BEING A GENTILE, INCLUDE MYSELF IN THIS NEW COVENANT?

I would like to know.

The promise of the New Covenant
the Duty of the new covenant
and the sign.

Anybody....

 2007/11/28 19:56Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Okay. I can believe this, but, how do you know?




Dorcas,

Nisan is the first month of the ecclesiastical year and the seventh month of the civil year on the Hebrew calendar. The name of the month is Babylonian; in the Torah it is called the month of the Aviv, referring to a stage in the ripening of barley which occurs during the month. It is a spring month of 30 days. Nisan usually falls in March–April on the Gregorian calendar. In the Book of Esther in the Tanakh it is referred to as Nisan.

So, in Genesis it is called the month of Aviv but was changed to Nisan.
Passover is celebrated on the 14th day of the month called Nisan (Lev 23:4; Num 9:3,5, Num 28:16), first month of the Jewish year.

The 14 is the day Jesus Died on the Cross, the 17th…three days later is the day Jesus Rose from the dead.

I believe it is thought to be approximately 2400 years between Noah and the resurrection of Jesus Christ.


Love In Christ
Katy-Did

 2007/11/29 9:53









 Re: Covenant


Katy explained

Quote:
Nisan is the first month of the ecclesiastical year and the seventh month of the civil year on the Hebrew calendar. The name of the month is Babylonian; in the Torah it is called the month of the Aviv, referring to a stage in the ripening of barley which occurs during the month. It is a spring month of 30 days. Nisan usually falls in March–April on the Gregorian calendar. In the Book of Esther in the Tanakh it is referred to as Nisan.

So, in Genesis it is called the month of Aviv but was changed to Nisan.
[b]Passover is celebrated on the 14th day of the month called Nisan (Lev 23:4; Num 9:3,5, Num 28:16), first month of the Jewish year[/b].

The 14 is the day Jesus Died on the Cross, the 17th…three days later is the day Jesus Rose from the dead.

I believe it is thought to be approximately 2400 years between Noah and the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

So.... another question.... how is it that the 14th day of Nisan migrates at all?

I find this fascinating, and think there must be a few more similar dates in the history of mankind, which find resonsance in the life of Christ.

Are you able to explain roughly how the 2400 number is reached, and whether the jubilee during Jesus' time is any help in settling it?

 2007/11/29 10:12









 Re:

Dorcas,

All of this migrates to the New Testament. The Old Testament is fulfilled in teh New Testament and the New is revealed in the Old.

"Christians understand Pentecost as a powerful feast of the salvation, because it speaks about the giving of the Law on Mount Sinai, about the founding of the Church, and about the Final Judgement. Pentecost can be seen parallel to Shavout, As Easter is to Passover. On Passover, the Jews were delivered from slavery in Egypt. On Easter, mankind was delivered from slavery to sin. On Shavout the Children of Israel received the Law; On Pentecost, the Church received the fullness of the Holy Spirit. Some basic numerology will enlighten us more: hamishshim yom is day 7²+1. 7² points to the Creation after eschaton, i.e. the "new heaven" and the "new earth" from Revelation 21:1; while the +1 shows Who is involved in the process: Yahweh, the Lord of the covenant (the mûlâ, Jewish circumcision, which is "a token of the covenant", must be done on the 7+1 day from birth), in Jewish mentality; Yahweh, the Lord of the covenant, through Jesus resurrected (the Resurrection took place in the 7+1 day of the week), in Christian mentality."

The events experienced by the Apostles in Jerusalem during khag shavuot were understood by the Apostles as the sending of the Holy Ghost, which had been promised by Jesus (John 14:26):


During history, the Pentecost has acquired great meanings. The Rabbinic Judaism (Babylonian Talmud, Pesahim, 68b; Midrash, Tanhuma, 26c) commemorated through khag shavuot the giving of the Law on Mount Sinai, because, according to Exodus 19:1, this event took place on the fiftieth day after the departure from Egypt. Some Christians place on the day of Pentecost the birth of the Church, a phenomenon characterized by the Descent of the Holy Spirit. The harvest itself can be a metaphor of the Final Judgement, as shown by Jesus in Matthew 9:37-38:

Then saith He unto His disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few;/ Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that He will send forth labourers into His harvest.


As far as calculations, that has been left up to those who do these things. I haven't myself sat and proved or disproved, and see no reason to. I don't believe the 2400 years itself has any significance.

There are so many nuggets of GOLD found in the Old Testament. Absolutely Fabulous in getting to know God and the Charactor of God and doctrine.

One of my favorites that really blessed me( changing the subject a bit here) was those who went into the Land of Promise RE: Salvation, is that in the Land there are both **mountains** and **valley's**. Who ever said Salvation should be a mountaintop experience 24/7 is wrong. But we do know those "In Christ" can say as David,

"Whether I make my bed in Hell, you are there, and whether I am on the top of the mountains you are there! Praise God, He will never leave you or forsake you!!

A Covenant PROMISE!!!

Love in Christ
Katy-Did
:-)

 2007/11/29 11:34





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy