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DIEDTOSELF
Member



Joined: 2006/12/20
Posts: 61
Minnesota

 Re:

Giving? I read the article this morning and do believe in what Zac is saying about the subject. Everything is the Lords. One question; I personaly have guilt in this area. We generally do not give that much for the money earned barely covers bills and sometimes don't. And I have people tell me you need to give in order to be blessed. Now with two children as well it even becomes difficult to give our time when they require attnetion as well. I do love the Lord and want to serve Him in all areas of my life. Now I want you to know if someone asks anything of me I give my all, but I don't just jump out there and do things or give money especially since we are always so short, but I pray that the Lord will bless us in order that we will be able to give and support worthwhile ministries with money. Any thoughts?


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Craig

 2007/1/30 11:28Profile
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

Remember what Jesus said about the woman who gave out of her poverty!

The Pharisees gave 10%, and some of them had a lot, so their gifts were quite amazing to behold... but they were nothing to Jesus, because these people had so much, they could have easily given 30, 40, 50% and still been comfortable.

Jesus beheld the woman who gave the three small coins and loved her! This woman gave everything she had, even what she didn't... she gave everything, not worrying about what she would eat or drink or wear tomorrow -trusting that God is good and he will provide.

CS Lewis in his book Mere Christianity talks about the virtue of Charity and says something like this, 'If it doesn't hurt, then it's not charity!' That's right, if in our giving of our means to the work of God, if it doesn't cause us some discomfort we haven't given enough!

That's a simple rule to live by, if you don't have to change your regular habits of consumption, your life style, where you eat, how you spend your free time because of how much you're giving to church, charity and missions... then you're not giving enough.

This wasn't my measure, this was how CS Lewis put it in his book... but I think we can see it in the lives of those saints who are really sold out for Jesus.

Sacrificing hurts! When we're called to sacrifice our possessions for the sake of the Gospel, it's just like killing a valuable animal that we used on our farm and offering it up the God. We won't have any more use of that animal, and we may be hungrier for it, it may have helped tread out the grain, or pull a hoe, no longer, it was sacrificed to the work of the Gospel.

Americans want sacrifice without pain, giving without tightening the belt!

I think that the invitation to the rich young ruler is an invitation given to the American church... but we haven't heard Jesus clearly. I've heard this sermon preached on one hundred times, and ever time the preacher will make sure to point out, 'well God doesn't want us to literally give up everything we have... this was a specific call to this individual.'

But that ignores Jesus's comment following the invitation, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle... the American church is rich! In general American believers are extremely blessed, materially, intellectually and with health. Are we any better for all of it? No, to someone with great blessing there is also great responsibility.

Choose today whether you can really give up everything for Jesus! Count the costs, we are told to count the costs.

Secondly, I cannot sympathize with you as I have no children or family to support... I think this is why Paul said, and I paraphrase, that it is better for a man not to marry because he has not the cares of this world.

Last night I read an article by Charles Finney which I think every believer should read on the cares of the world. Although the english is a little bit tough because of the age (1839) it is an amazing read and really encouraging.

[url=http://www.gospeltruth.net/1839OE/390508_carefulness_a_sin.htm]Charles Finney - Carefulness A Sin.[/url]


_________________
Ian Smith

 2007/1/30 12:31Profile
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

I'm sorry for replying to myself, but I also thought of another great lesson about giving!

I was encouraged by the writings of Brother Andrew about how God would provide for him whenever he was in need.

We'll never be in need of anything from God if we're always making provisions for ourselves!

This is a valuable point to learn. When we build up our own storehouses full of grain, we can never experience God's overflowing blessings for our provisions, because we'll conent, all but ignorant of the good things that God wants to give us.

I'm not saying that you should go out and sell your house, or trade in your car, although some have been lead to do this -I strongly suggest you read KP Yohannan's books and hear his testimony!

God says that we should be wise with our money, but he also says that we should trust in him since he is the maker of all things and will provide for us in our need.

This is the rule to live by, take only what you need for yourself, if you save, save modestly, if you give, give generously! Remember that God cloths the grass of the fields and feeds the birds of the air and more than those want's to provide good things for you.

Now you may have a distorted view of what good things are based on the culture we live in. You may not be able to distinguish wants from needs. There are a lot of things that I want, like a new cell phone, but don't need. I'd like a nicer car, but my car will probably last me another ten years. If I have the means from God to buy these things, it doesn't necessarily mean that i should... I should first inquire as to how God wants me to use the money he's given me.

Remember that God is the Lord of your life, and the Lord of your checkbook, you'll be accountable to him for everything that is written in that as well!


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Ian Smith

 2007/1/30 12:47Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

We must begin to understand what Church was then, and what it is now.
Before they met in houses, so let's say this is our setting. I will use names of some posters here to set the idea.(Please forgive if I use your name w/o permission)
Ok, so let's say we meet in krispy's home. Now brother crsschk and his wife have a need and it is made known either by them, or by the Lord, so we ths church at krispy's house provide for it.
Now the next week, or day brother sermonindex comes to us in our fellwship and explains how he is being led to go preach to the Canadians. We take a collection and help him.
Now within this setting, krispy and his wife should receive a little help as well so we do not eat them out of house and home, but the Spirit would guide us as to how much, and how often.
Notice that there is no huffing and puffing, or threatening about the devourer coming, but instead the giving is done unto family. There are no plasma screens to pay for(sorry Krispy), no Pierre Cardin suits, but there is a sharing of what we all have for the Body.


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patrick heaviside

 2007/1/30 13:10Profile
rowdy2
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA

 Re:

If you have made a covenant with God to tithe, please disregard this post.

Matthew 17: 26 KJV
And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute? He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers? Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

We all think our benefactors or different but we are continuing a cruel and corrupt system of trust in money and are still caught and imprisoned by the elements of the world. Trust in the power of almighty God and serve the Kingdom of God. Give all that you have to the Kingdom of God not to the kingdom of greed. There is plenty of money but the shortage of love is astounding. I plead with you to stop giving your support to any earthly organizations who in the name of God demands money. All that you have to show for it is a pious glare toward the poor and a cold heart toward the unlovable. Give your love to the poor and you want have money leftover to perpetuate this practice.

1 Corinthians 9
16. For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
17. For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
18. What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
19. For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
rowdy2




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Eddie

 2007/1/30 13:23Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Now within this setting, krispy and his wife should receive a little help as well so we do not eat them out of house and home, but the Spirit would guide us as to how much, and how often.



Actually... everyone brings food to our gatherings... we share everything (food-wise). I wish we could get to the point where we shared everything else too... but we're not there yet! :-)

But your point is well taken, and thats how we attempt to run our house churches. We try to live out the example that is in Acts.

Quote:
...no Pierre Cardin suits



LOL... usually on Sunday mornings I teach wearing a Panthers jersey and sweatpants. I dont believe the Lord has called to high fashion. And I know when I get dressed up I usually end up pretty impressed with myself and want people to look at me. So I like dressing comfortably.

Krispy

 2007/1/30 13:31
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

And I thought the plasma TV would upset ya :-D


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patrick heaviside

 2007/1/30 13:42Profile









 Re:

Quote:
And I thought the plasma TV would upset ya



Wish I had one for watching football...

First off, I cant justify the $$ for one, and secondly it would become an idol bigtime. I know my limitations! lol

I know Christians who have them... drop $3000 plus on it... and then complain about how much a new Bible costs. Or claim they dont have enough money to give to the Kingdom... while they're also making payments on a house they cant afford and big expensive vehicles.

Then they ask my wife how we can afford for her to not work so she can homeschool our kids. Uhmmm... duh... we dont live above our means!

Oh... wow... that kinda ties in with the topic of this thread, doesnt it!?!

Krispy

 2007/1/30 14:41
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

When all the world that sparkles and calls finally looks to me grim
Then shall I have nothing at all
Nothing yet all in Him

I for get what hymn this next line is from, but I believe it's Newton
"Fading are the worldlings' pleasures, all their boasted pomp and show;"


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patrick heaviside

 2007/1/30 14:48Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3235
Texas

 Re:

I guess this can be a sensitive subject but I always thought the Word said the tithe belong to the Lord, well the Pastor is not the Lord or the Church is not the Lord, I thought that Jesus said when you give to the least of me your giving to the Lord, so if you give to anyone in need you giving to the Lord.

I have never felt anyones giving should ever be confined to the Church, and personally I don't feel "any" Pastor should ever preach on tithing directly because if he is preaching the word of God the congregation should already know this, one of my biggest turn offs on any pastor is when they start on the tithe thing and try and make you feel under condemnation.

A favorite quote of the tithe teachers is second part of Malachi 3:10, “Prove me now … if I will not open the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.” I could confidently make the declaration that the greatest majority of the Christians that faithfully give 10% or more, under the tithe system, never see a return “blessing” so large they don’t have enough room to receive it.

In fact, I find a lot of them having a hard time just making ends meet. And I am not including the Christians that get themselves into financial bondage with large house and car payments trying to keep up with the Jones’, I’m referring to the ones who are having difficulty affording the basic necessities of life (food, water, shelter and clothing). I think we all realize "blessings" encompass a lot more than just money, but money is a part of it, especially if the seed sown is currency, and financial returns are what the tithe teachers emphasize when referencing “blessings.” If this Malachi Old Covenant verse is for a New Covenant believer, why isn’t it working?

These brothers and sisters are “proving” God as they are told to do for many years, yet very few see huge returns, financial or otherwise. Could it be because they are not giving to the true temple “storehouse,” or maybe because the money is not going to the actual tribe of Levi as it was supposed to? It seems the majority of the ones seeing the abundant returns are the ones collecting the tithes.




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Mr. Bill

 2007/1/30 15:43Profile





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