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Discussion Forum : General Topics : What should women teach?

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roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 What should women teach?

I feel that we came a long way in the “Women are not to teach men” thread, but a great deal of related Biblical truth had not yet been touched; or maybe it got obscured in the smoke.

Of course we ALL know Paul’s famous words: “I forbid women to teach men.” from 1 Timothy. But there are many references we do not know nearly as well. ex: “…teach older women to …. TEACH what is good.” Titus 2:3 Since we haven’t progressed to that reality, there has been a tendency towards knee-jerk reactions: a gender war, a long string of defenses by either gender, or a false sense of relief: “Phew, we women don’t need to teach. So I won’t bother assertively learning the things of God.” However, these attitudes are lethal to the church and to our families.

I believe that Paul’s exhortation will never be understood as long as we think like the world. For example: how does the world view authority? - more like dominance and forced servitude. The world “fixes” threatening people groups by squelching them – including their autonomy and their freedoms. You dominate them in order to keep them in their “place” (ie to keep YOUSELF on top) That is the way of international politics. So it should not be surprising that such a philosophy trickles down to the smaller units of relationship – like gender relationships, parent-child relationships, and of course, playground dynamics.

Here are two more problems caused by viewing scripture from a worldly frame of mind, or by failing to consider the WHOLE counsel of the Word:

The ones in authority tell their subordinates what they are NOT allowed to do, but they fail to TEACH them what they ARE to do. Correction is achieved by pushing down from above. Really, this just makes things worse. The subdued ones then feel a need to employ all their energies in order to rise above their “oppressors”. You end up with a lot of revenge and conflict and power struggles. This I believe explains such movements as Women’s Lib, Free Choice, Equal Rights, etc etc.

There also seems to be a faulty understanding of the relationship between teaching and hierarchy – as if teaching puts you a notch above someone. That is also the worldly way. And it is deadly too. I know of some churches where women were not to speak or teach in the presence of men. I never saw such dysfunctional organizations. Abuse was going on, unchecked. Men were hiding their sins of adultery and wife-abuse. Women had no voice, and if they spoke out they were merely told they were “unforgiving” and “unsubmissive”. I know a few marriages that fell apart because of Biblical misuse of Paul’s teachings on gender roles. You see, without considering the WHOLE counsel of God, we go off the rails. When we apply any biblical law to an unregenerate or worldly mindset we have a formula for disaster. We will NEVER get it to work right, even if we follow it to the letter of the law.


If we don’t understand the Biblical perspective of authority and teaching, we certainly can’t understand much of Paul’s teachings re gender responsibilities or any Biblical teaching, for that matter. It all starts with our orientation to the authority of God, his Son, and his Spirit.

Before proceeding, I’d like to include Paul’s words to Titus:

“But avoid foolish controversies and… arguments, and quarrels ABOUT THE LAW, because these are unprofitable and useless. “Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that...:-? ” Titus 3:9

First things first, what does God teach about our submission to HIM?

Diane





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Diane

 2007/1/8 8:34Profile
Compton
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re: What should women teach?

Hi Diane,

In considering your question I would find it helpful to understand these two verses from Paul.

Philippians 2:22
But you know that Timothy has proved himself, because as a son with his father he has served with me in the work of the gospel.

Philippians 4:3
...and I ask you, loyal yokefellow, help these women who have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.

Blessings,

MC


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Mike Compton

 2007/1/8 9:06Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: contending in the cause

Some thoughts to ponder:

Quote:
Philippians 2:22
But you know that Timothy has proved himself, because as a son with his father he has served with me in the work of the gospel.

Philippians 4:3
...and I ask you, loyal yokefellow, help these women who have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.



Here we see a clearly defined common purpose, common to Paul, Timothy, and “these women”:

"work of the gospel."
"the cause of the gospel"

Where else does Paul speak about the work (or cause) of the Gospel?

What do these two references say about the dynamics of relationships in the fulfilment of this “cause” contending at my side.... serve with me ..?

Diane


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Diane

 2007/1/8 10:45Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Quote:
contending at my side.


The question that will eventualy need to be answered is this:

How can men and women best "contend together" for the cause of the Gospel?

Other translations: "labor with me",
"struggle with me" (KJV)
"labored side by side with me"....
Strongs: "To wrestle in company with, strive together for, to seek jointly...."

Clearly, we'll never get anywhere without the same goal. What is it that REALLY causes divisions in the gender matters? Can that be possible if all have [the same goal]?

IMPORTANT EDIT: ... the RIGHT goal. (It is possible to be united in the wrong goal)

Diane


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Diane

 2007/1/8 11:45Profile
Yeshuasboy
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Joined: 2006/6/10
Posts: 668
Northern Rockies, BC, Canada

 Re:

Here is of a prophetess named Anna:
Luke 2:36: And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;
Luke 2:37: And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.
Luke 2:38: And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.
Above verses are taken out of the King James Bible.
The following taken out of Matthew Henry's Commentary: "She, as a prophetess, instructed others concerning him: She spoke of him to all them that believed the Messiah would come, and with him looked for redemption in Jerusalem. Some there were in Jerusalem that looked for redemption; yet but a few, for Anna, it should seem, had acquaintance with all. She knew where to find them, or they where to find her, and she told them all the good news, that she had seen the Lord. Those that have an acquaintance with Christ themselves should do all they can to bring others acquainted with him."
The Lord Christ Jesus perfect you in His Love,
richie


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Richie

 2007/1/8 12:03Profile
MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3223
Texas

 Re: What should women teach?

What should women teach?

For me personally anything that will help make me a better person Physically or Mentally. :-)


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Mr. Bill

 2007/1/8 12:07Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Quote:
What should women teach?

For me personally anything that will help make me a better person Physically or Mentally



MrBillPro, Of course, in this thread context it would have to be established that by "better" you mean, grow in godliness. There are plenty references that would support your point. ex:"Consider others better than yorself"

Perhaps you can think of some references that would help us understand what exactly would be edifying, and would shed light on the women's place in the body, as it relates to teaching and the Gospel.

Diane


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Diane

 2007/1/8 20:13Profile
MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3223
Texas

 Re:

Well if I had a woman teach me how to Pray "like in Jesus name" if I did not know, would that be edifying or grow in godliness?


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Mr. Bill

 2007/1/8 21:27Profile
dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re: interesting

This post has taken me back 15 yrs., where this ole' preacher had 3 very godly sisters who went faithfully out on the streets with the whole group (8-12 people) and contended together with us for the sake of the gospel, and they were very effective and along with the scriptures they have been instrument in molding my views on women in ministry. I praise God for it, I believe it has helped make me a more balanced christian.


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D.Miller

 2007/1/8 22:38Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: First: A look at other factors

In the other thread Ginnyrose (I think) said something like this “Instead of focusing on what we can’t do, try to discover what we CAN do”…. or was that “what we SHOULD do”

Here’s my attempt:

As I read through the “T” epistles (Thes/Tim/Titus), certain truths leap from the page: qualities that deeply influence our effectiveness as servants of Christ, regardless of gender. In fact, without these qualities all of our words, our teachings and our preachings, have no weight. Before considering the issue of teaching in the church, these factors must first be taken into account:

1. Character
2. Works
3. Relationships
4. Reputation

Character:
“You became imitators of us 1 thes. 1:6
you became a model to the believers…” 1 Thes.1:7
“We … not… impure motives… trick, greed… please men.. flattery…1 Thes.1:3,4“…

Works:
Your work produced by faith, your labor prompted by love, your endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.”
“…we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you.” 2 Thes. 3:8

Relationships:
“We loved you so much that we were delighted to share with your not only the Gospel of God, but our lives as well, because you had become so dear to us.” 1 Thes.1:8
“…. Gentle, like a mother caring for her little children” (the value of a maternal quality)
“intense longing ….. to see you.” 1 thes.2:17
“… encourage one another, and build each other up … “ 1 Thes. 5:11

Reputation:
“Your faith in God has become known everywhere .” 1 Thes.1:8
“Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands… so that your daily life may win the respect of others…”


….and much more! It looks like a fair bulk of Apostolic teaching focuses on the conduct of our lives – qualities that are expected of all believers. There are also specific directions for each gender regarding our conduct in the context of relationship.

(Maybe eventually we’ll get to issues about teaching in church)
Diane


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Diane

 2007/1/9 8:25Profile





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