The fruit I see in the New Testament, and not only in Acts, is spiritual growth. All of the the NT epistles centre on this, and therefore that is what we are seeking here; certainly not "signs and wonders" - but spiritual maturity in the Lord.
What do you mean by this? Charismatic type experiencial type things?Todd, you dont hear much about house churches and their fruit because it operates outside the bounderies. We've seen a number of people saved, we're involved in prison ministries, ministry to retirement homes, etc etc... if that what you mean by fruit... it's happening. If you're talking about barking and slain in the spirit Toronto type stuff... I'm sure that happens in some... but not in ours since we reject that type of thing for doctrinal reasons. (Please dont everyone get side tracked on that!)
I have been in a strictly home church that ended up being very controlling and cult like and hurt my family greatly. It was the leader of the home church. It was really a traditional church government meeting in homes...Yep, that can be a problem too. But it occurs in any church... traditional or home church.
_________________Mike Compton
Thats what defines a terrorist, not true "freedome fighters".
Sorry... I found that distasteful, my brother.
_________________Zeke Oosthuis
What happens when a home church gets so big (there is a limit to the size of every home) that it cannot accomodate the people who are coming? Doesnt it turn into another regular church?In a free-for-all setting, what usually happens is the vocal ones will do all the talking. Im not sure these are all spirit-filled (we can only hope). So we spend our time listening to them listening to their own voices. Where is the spiritual food coming from? When Jesus fed the 5000 he did it by dividing them into groups and they were ministered by his disciples. Now, at that time, unbeknown to us yet, there was one among the twelve who was a "Judas". 11 out of 12 is all this fallen world allows us. So it is with churches these days.I can only talk of my own experience with churches. In the last 10 years Ive lived in 5 different cities all over the world, Asia, America and Europe. In each city, before I chose my church I visit 5 or even more. So, you can see how many churches Ive visited. Some are like rock concerts. Some are like funeral services. No church is perfect, is right. If we are unhappy with a church, we have the freedom to move to another till we find one which fits our temperament. We must always factor that in, our temperament. God made us all different and it is maybe not such a bad thing that churches differ. I dont think it is necessary to copy the early churches. Times have changed. In those days, they were not allowed to meet as freely as we are (or at least in most countries).
Zeke... forgiveness given, of course.*** edited *** I responded to something that the admins removed... so I have removed my response.Krispy
Neilgin1 wrote:War is sinful.
What happens when a home church gets so big (there is a limit to the size of every home) that it cannot accomodate the people who are coming? Doesnt it turn into another regular church?
*** edited *** I responded to something that the admins removed... so I have removed my response.Thanx...Krispy
I dont think it is necessary to copy the early churches. Times have changed. In those days, they were not allowed to meet as freely as we are (or at least in most countries).
Krispy said:I dont think we can just dismiss the way they met. I'm not anti-traditional church. I just know from experience that the intimacy is lost now in most traditional churches. We meet for 90 minutes, look at the back of someone's head... chat for 5 minutes as we exit to the parking lot... and we call it fellowship. It's not.Stever's response:I agree. Also, how did Christ preach the Gospel and heal the sick? Did he go door to door? Did he build a multimillion dollar building and invite everyone in? No, He went about preaching wherever He went to whoever the Holy Spirit placed in His path. Did he heal everyone? No! Only those that He was led to by the Holy Spirit.The early Church in Acts should indeed be our model. We do not need Pastors that have been trained in our Godless seminaries of today to lead us. We need Spirit Filled believers that are sold out to God that want to open their homes for this glorious purpose.1 John 2 tells us that the Holy Spirit reveals all truth to the believer:20.But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things......27.But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.1 Timothy 3 gives us a model of the type of men that can take on this task:1. This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a pastor, he desireth a good work. 2. A pastor then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3. Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4. One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5. (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) 6. Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. 8. Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; 9. Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. 10. And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. 11. Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. 12. Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 13. For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.God bless,Stever
