Quote: "I am not willing to prove you wrong or me right"

Me neither; just discussing.

I just thought it was a pretty common traditional understanding that God is not the author of evil.

A person could say that he created the devil (as you pointed out) and people, knowing that they would sin, and therefore he is the author of evil.

I think that is going one step too far; although logically I can understand why someone would think that.

I think it is important that we not attribute things to God that impugn His character, whatever those things might be. For example, I have a very hard time understanding why God would kill David's son to teach David a lesson. I am not saying I do not accept it- merely that I have a hard time understanding it.

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Todd

Amen, yes sometimes God's ways for me are hard to understand or accept. Since I am just a clay pot in the scheme of the things of God, I must bow to His authority and majesty over me. I will agree, God is not evil, all goodness dwells in Him. If evil is separate from God then their must be another equal to God that creates evil. I know that this is not true.

In Christ: Phillip

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Phillip

Hi brothers,

This stuff is deep :)

James 1:13-16 - A man must not say when he is tempted, "God is tempting me." For God has no dealings with evil, and does not himself tempt anyone. No, a man's temptation is due to the pull of his own inward desires, which can be enormously attractive. His own desire takes hold of him, and that produces sin. And sin in the long run means death - make no mistake about that, brothers of mine!

We are touching on the "mystery of iniquity" here? God created Lucifer. Somehow Lucifer was lifted up in his own heart through pride, thus sinned against God and was cast down and brought his evil, iniquitous heart and breath to man and to this world.

It is not told or explained how that was possible, just that it happened.

God can and will use evil men to execute His judgement etc., does not mean He created evil...

I think more thought from our wise brethren could be helpful here :)

Blessings,

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William

A couple of quick points....

Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

Why is it that we can't/don't give the lame (any diseased person) or lost person what Peter did?


Also because God (the Father) spoke the world into being, the nature of reality is syntactical.... Jesus is the word which became flesh and everything that was created was created by/through Him. Scriptures twice declare that the universe cannot contain Him.... yet they also declare that the worlds are framed by His word (Jesus)...
So to quote Ravenhill: "God has not merely given us Jesus Christ,..He has given us ALL THINGS in and through Him!"

wether a thing is pure/holy is a matter of perspective... Titus 1:15
Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

So wether- Gods actions of "sending forth a lying spirit", "hardening Pharaohs heart and sending plagues", or "sending a strong delusion" etc,... is good/bad is ultimately a matter of perspective and according to (my understanding) Titus 1:15 makes it clear that how we view Gods actions is a direct reflection of our disposition relating to His Word/Son and as such wether we are truly His.

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Fletcher

Brothers is it possible that we are finite minds trying to understand an infinite God.

I believe it was Tozer who said that it's the infinite that must pierce the finite.

My simple finite thoughts.

-bbs-

Indeed Bear- we are supposed to have the faith of a child but that is difficult for me. If I did, things would be a lot simpler and clearer.

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Todd

People are going to believe what they want to believe and its usually something they were "raised in". I am amazed at how many christians choose to believe that God is the author of evil. I have seen evil and I know where it comes from and it ain't from God that's for sure. Jesus is God and the exact representation of the Father. He never put sickness on anyone but He did heal many of their sicknesses. And He still heals people today. God is not the author of sickness but we know who is though...the evil one. Nothing but good can come from a good tree, meaning only good things come from God because He is entirely good and no darkness dwells within Him. Jesus came to undo the works of satan including sickness so where do these people get off representing that God brings sickness into our lives? That is just plain false teaching. The scriptures could not be more clear about this. But as I said some people just want to believe what they want to believe. That is their prerogative I suppose but it is sad when they lay their beliefs onto others rather than reinforce the truth that we have a good God who loves us and desires to set us free from all the works of the devil in our lives and the lives of our loved ones. Just remember that if we are double minded about Gods generosity and willingness to bless us we should not expect God to answer any of our prayers for His help, including asking for wisdom and even physical things such as divine healing.

I tend to agree with you Mark- pretty strongly in fact- but there are some troublesome passages like Heydave brought up earlier, and the story I brought up about God seemingly killing David's son from Bathsheba in order to punish David.

I suspect, that while scripture is indeed inspired, that all scripture does not tell the whole story but is told from the perspective of those doing the writing.

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Todd

Todd,
The statement made by Mark "people believe what they want to believe" ironically can be applied to your position here.
In just two of the clear biblical examples you quote you say they only 'appear' to say what they say. That seems to be a very biased position.
In fact there are soo many places where scripture talks about God inflicting people with sickness, death and even tormenting judgement, that to give chapter and verse seems unecessary. You just need to read the bible.

Do I believe that any sickness that I or someone I know may get is always from God? No I don't. But that was not the original statement posted. You said "God CANNOT give anyone sickness because He has none to give". It is this that is absolutely at odds with the scriptural record. So if we hold scripture above 'what we just want to believe' we have accept God can and does use sickness whether we understand it, like it or not.

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Dave

We may be splitting hairs now but I get that the 'spirit' of the question is whether or not God is the source of evil and in particular, sickness. I personally and catagorically reject that notion. Evil and what we would denounce as afflications, disease and infirmities are from the devil. I will go to my grave believing that, but also understand some disagree with me on this. If God is the author of sickness then we should never pray against it and never see a doctor or take medicine, just let the "will of God'" be done. Of course very few believers really actually believe sickness comes from God and so they do what the Lord and the disciples did...lay hands on the sick and watch them recover. I am convinced though that many do not see Gods divine healing in their lives because 1) they never pray for healing - period and 2) if they pray they do not pray in faith - they pray, "if it be T
hy will". We should never expect those double minded prayers of doubt to avail much.i