I'm not going to "go deep" here, but I just think one thing should be said for general understanding in light of the discussion as a whole:

The "grid" of what "is and isn't helpful" by some if applied to the Biblical prophets would say that men & MANY of the words brought forth by people like Jeremiah, Isaiah, Ezekiel, etc. were "neither edifying, helpful, nor beneficial". That should at least be noted and considered I think. If Judah didn't repent, then what good was it for Jeremiah, Hosea, etc. to go on as they did? Well, because it was the Lord's will & once not heeded, it was the last watch man's cry of what was coming so that when it did, they would not be offended & would know the Lord sent the prophets ahead of time to warn to prepare their hearts by repentance in His mercy ("does God do anything except He first tell His servants the prophets?" - a rhetorical question where he answer is obviously - NO!). Not saying anyone here is or isn't a prophet, but the responses & grid used to apply to any type of warning inevitably have to be run through the grid of the historical examples & prophets' words/warnings and the consummate events that occurred as a result. The prophetic word, when it is in fact a true prophetic warning, still comes through imperfect men.
God Bless,
Jeff

"A Prophet is a vehicle for the transmission of the heart & warning knowledge of God but is still filtered through an imperfect man, he's not just a "megaphone" merely amplifying everything exactly." - Dr Michael Brown, Prophets & Prophetic Word Teaching Series

John Piper's article (available online) on OT prophets vs NT Prophetic Ministry, Is there a difference? Is a great article.

Again, not calling anyone here a prophet, but just saying the responses & grid applied would be severely amiss in the case of a true prophetic voice/ warning.

I'm not going to "go deep" here, but I just think one thing should be said for general understanding in light of the discussion as a whole:

The "grid" of what "is and isn't helpful" by some if applied to the Biblical prophets would say that men & MANY of the words brought forth by people like Jeremiah, Isaiah, Ezekiel, etc. were "neither edifying, helpful, nor beneficial". That should at least be noted and considered I think. If Judah didn't repent, then what good was it for Jeremiah, Hosea, etc. to go on as they did? Well, because it was the Lord's will & once not heeded, it was the last watch man's cry of what was coming so that when it did, they would not be offended & would know the Lord sent the prophets ahead of time to warn to prepare their hearts by repentance in His mercy ("does God do anything except He first tell His servants the prophets?" - a rhetorical question where he answer is obviously - NO!). Not saying anyone here is or isn't a prophet, but the responses & grid used to apply to any type of warning inevitably have to be run through the grid of the historical examples & prophets' words/warnings and the consummate events that occurred as a result. The prophetic word, when it is in fact a true prophetic warning, still comes through imperfect men.
God Bless,
Jeff

"A Prophet is a vehicle for the transmission of the heart & warning knowledge of God but is still filtered through an imperfect man, he's not just a "megaphone" merely amplifying everything exactly." - Dr Michael Brown, Prophets & Prophetic Word Teaching Series

John Piper's article (available online) on OT prophets vs NT Prophetic Ministry, Is there a difference? Is a great article.

Again, not calling anyone here a prophet, but just saying the responses & grid applied would be severely amiss in the case of a true prophetic voice/ warning.

Before you wear the Crown

Before the crown we’re called to wear
There is a cross that we must bear
Before He struggled up the Hill
He had to choose His Father’s will

Before the victory was won
He had to say ” Thy will be done.”
And on the cross He did atone
But not before He prayed alone

If we desire to climb that hill
We must desire to do His will
For victory will not be won
Until we say ” Thy will be done.”

So if you will take up your cross
It’d serve you well to count the cost
For before He died to set you free
He died alone at Gethsemane

Todd, to answer your question to me, "Yes, we should seek Him regardless of the fear of persecution." No one is saying otherwise, are they? There is no revival unless it is for His sake alone. We seek revival and awakening because of our condition, not because of the time. But, our condition is a function of the time. 2 Timothy 3:1-5. We can't untie them.

"Repent for the end is at hand" is simply a rephrasing of Mark 1:15, wherein John the Baptist preached "The time is fulfilled, the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent and believe the gospel." The time fulfilled is Daniel 9. It is God's purpose, His sake if you will, that the message of repentance is tied to His timing of the end of the age. I get what you are saying --- repentance is not worth much as a mere fire insurance policy. THAT IS a timeless truth, indeed, Todd. Repentance is not mere affliction-avoidance. It is not the AFLAC duck. But, it is a message that God purposes as part and parcel of His times and seasons. Those times are both our undoing for the unbelieving and unrepentant (again, 2 Tim. 3:1-5 and elsewhere) and our salvation for the believing (1 Peter 4:7-19; 1 John 2:18; James 5:8; Romans 13:11, 12).

How merciless must we be to ignore the peril of so many at this late hour? I know you don't mean we are merciless if we are not convinced of the time, but if we are convinced would we not be merciless and loveless and certainly NOT for the sake of His Name and Honor if we did not say, "Repent for the end is near?"

_________________
Tim

Brothers, I'm off track somewhere in this conversation. I am a little daft at times. And, I fear I was here. Blaine, you lovingly clarified what you didn't need to clarify for me --- I got you; but I apparently said something in this that had the opposite effect of my intent in the discussion. I'm just not sure where!

My hope is this:

1. That we all come to the fullness of Christ -- together!
2. That we do so soon.
3. That the sleeping church in America do so.
4. That God will awaken the mass of people who identify as Christians to the need of the hour.
5. That we will actually see the urgency of the hour.
6. That, because of Jesus and not because of our own desire to avoid hardship, we both seek Him, His life and an awakening in the church to it.
7. That the church, indeed, awakens and more people enter into the difficult days ahead with the fullness of true salvation in Christ, prepared for whatever may be and looking to the coming of our King.

_________________
Tim

.
Got you bro. I'm afraid I'm the one that was a little daft. I do agree wholeheartedly with your insights bro.

.
I believe Paul Washer still commands respect in this forum. Below is the text of an answer he gave to a question at the 2011 Sermonindexnet on the fear of God. He was answering the question about upcoming persecution on the church in America. I believe his answer has turned out to be quite prophetic given the fact he answered the question in 2011. And look where we are at now in 2016.

Brothers and sisters you might blow me off. And I believe many of you do. But for the sake of your soul do not blow off what our brother Paul Washer is saying.

-------------------------------


Best I can do. Peace of Lord Jesus be with you all!


"The church in America is going to suffer so terribly and you laugh now but they will come after us, they will come after our children, they will close the net around us while we are playing soccer mom and soccer dad, when we’re arguing over so many little things and mesmerized by so many trinkets. The net even now is closing around you and your children and your grandchildren and it does not cause you to fear. You will be isolated from society as has already happened, anyone who tries to run for office who actually believes the Bible will be considered a lunatic until finally we are silenced. We will be called things that we’re not and persecuted not for being followers of Christ, but for being radical fundamentalists who do not know the true way of Christ, which of course is love and tolerance. We’ll go down as the greatest bigots and haters of mankind in history. They’ve already come after your children and for most of you they got them. They got them through the public schools and indoctrination in the University and indoctrination and then you wonder why your children come out not serving the Lord. It’s because you fed them right into the devil’s mouth.

So, little by little the net is closing around and then it’s not little by little. Look how fast things are going downhill just in a matter of weeks, matter of weeks; but at the same time know this: persecution is always meant for evil, but God always means it for good. And is it not better to suffer in this life to have an extra weight of glory in Heaven? You must settle this in your mind, this is the one thing I want to say over and over: Do not believe, down through history you have a wrong idea of martyrdom and persecution, you think that these men were persecuted and martyred for their sincere faith in Jesus Christ, that was the real reason, but no one heard that publicly. They were martyred and they were persecuted as enemies of the state, as child molesters, as bigots, as narrow-minded stupid people who had fallen for a ruse and can contribute nothing to society. Your suffering will not be noble, so your mind must be filled with the Word of God when all people persecute you and turn on you and if the Spirit of God and common grace pulls back and you see even your children and your grandchildren tossing in the lot that you should die. This is no game.

You want revival and awakening, but know this, for the most part great awakenings have come only preceding great national catastrophes [of?] the persecution of the church. I believe God is bringing a great awakening but I believe that He is raising up young men who are strong in trust in the providence of God to be able to wade through the hell that’s going to break loose on us and it will be on us before we even recognize it; unless, unless in God’s providence He is not done, He is not done. And no[te?], this is, this is not silly talk. Apart from great awakening, these things are going to come upon you. Be ready to lose your homes, your cars, and everything

.
Brothers and sister as this was an initial post that our brother Greg posted a few years ago. There is a link to Paul washers video message. He answers a question about upcoming persecution in America.

You are free to tune out this message. But for those of you who listen to it. I would be curious to know if you dispute what are brother is saying.

These are the words of a servant who is respected on this forum. These are not the rantings of one of the forum members.

I ask after you watch this video. Do you dispute with his brother is saying?

-------------------------------



POWERFUL VIDEO: Coming Persecution To America - Paul Washer Reply To This Post |
Saints,

This is a powerful reminder and warning to us of coming persecution to North America. May God prepare us and strengthen us to love our enemies and do good to those that persecute us. May we reach out with the love and mercy of Christ and His precious Gospel while there is time to do so lawfully even!

Coming Persecution To America - Paul Washer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hakL0Je5XCw

SHARE THIS VIDEO with others on your Facebook, etc, like the video on youtube and add it to your favourites

PW wrote: "Apart from great awakening, these things are going to come upon you. Be ready to lose your homes, your cars, and everything"

Great awakening of who? The persecutees or the persecutors?

_________________
Todd

I'm all for the Sleeping Church to wake up, but speculative, future, fearful events won't do it. And especially scare tactics.

This is a ridiculous statement: