| Poster | Thread | philologos
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| | Re: | | pilgrim777 on 2012/4/2 11:50:18
"Christ does not obliterate our personalities. "
I like this statement, although I suspect we shall have another problem defining personality! But behind this protest is my own question. "How do we distinguish, not necessarily separate, redemption and regeneration. Clearly some things can be 'retrieved' whereas other things will need to be 'renewed'.
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Ron Bailey
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|  2012/4/3 6:28 | Profile | philologos
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| | Re: | | ADisciple on 2012/4/2 13:10:14
"As to name/identity, here's a verse that's very meaningful:
"...He calleth His own sheep by name, and leadeth them out" (Jn. 10.4)."
I think 'name' might find a closer synonym in 'nature'. God's names are revelations of his character and the Scriptures certainly use 'names' to describe character. Now we need yet another definition... what is character and is it renewed or redeemed?
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Ron Bailey
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| | 2012/4/3 6:30 | Profile | roadsign
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| | Re: | |
Quote:
"How do we distinguish, not necessarily separate, redemption and regeneration. Clearly some things can be 'retrieved' whereas other things will need to be 'renewed'.
May I try out this:
Redemption: God ransoms us and sets us apart for himself and establishes us in our new identity ( to use our word)
Regeneration (being renewed): The ongoing process of change after redemption. It is the process of growth in reflecting our new identity.
As far as "character", I see it as the lifelong outworking of both redemption and regeneration (renewal).
How am I tracking?
Diane
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Diane
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| | 2012/4/3 14:04 | Profile | philologos
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| | Re: | | by roadsign on 2012/4/3 16:04:45
"How am I tracking? "
"Regeneration (being renewed): The ongoing process of change after redemption. It is the process of growth in reflecting our new identity.
Are you regarding regeneration only as a process or as an event?
"Redemption: God ransoms us and sets us apart for himself and establishes us in our new identity ( to use our word) "
but what aspects of 'me' are redeemed and what aspects of 'me' are regenerated?
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Ron Bailey
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| | 2012/4/4 11:11 | Profile | roadsign
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| | Re: | | Philologos presents two theologically distinct words: regeneration and redemption. (Ive tended to use them interchangeably).
Ill give it a shot:
Quote:
Are you regarding regeneration only as a process or as an event?
Regeneration, if as in Gr. anakainosis, ananeoo seems to be a process - as in renewal, reform, renovate, change for the better.
and have been clothed with the new man that is BEING RENEWED in knowledge according to the image of the one who created it. Col. 3:10
Do not be conformed to this present world, but be transformed by THE RENEWING OF YOUR MIND Rom. 12:2
You were taught with reference to your former way of life to lay aside the old man who is being corrupted in accordance with deceitful desires, to BE RENEWED IN THE SPIRIT OF YOUR MIND and to put on the new man who has been created in Gods image. Eph. 4:22-24
Through the Spirits work within:
. the RENEWING of the Holy Spirit. Titus 3:5
Quote:
but what aspects of 'me' are redeemed and what aspects of 'me' are regenerated?
I am redeemed from the curse of the law and the violations against the law; that is, I am forgiven. Yet there is a future redemption: I am sealed for the day of redemption Eph. 4:30 and for now I eagerly await the redemption of my body. Rom. 8:23 when I will be freed from the temporal/finite tent. I believe I am redeemed as a whole, but I await the ultimate redemption.
My inward person is being regenerated, but my body is not:
even if our physical body [outer man= exo anthropos] is wearing away our INNER PERSON [eso] is being RENEWED day by day 1 Co 4:16 NET (edit: correction)
Observation:
Eph. 4:24 distinguishes - the old man[anthropos], as in, the former way of life with the new man[anthropos], as in, new way of life. But 1 Cor. 4:16 distinguishes the inner being from the physical body (exterior man).
How "self" and "identity" fits in here..... I wonder....
Diane
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Diane
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| | 2012/4/4 23:34 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
"Earlier Philologos asked for a biblical word that might encompass this idea of identity."
Quote:
How "self" and "identity" fits in here..... I wonder....
Diane
Good post on regeneration, Diane and I like your question at the end.
[just the last Scripture reference - typo, 1 Cor 4:16 where you meant 2Cor 4:16 - a verse that Nee uses in "The Release of the Spirit"]
In the last post on pg 7, I made a guess on Ron's question of our "heart" or 'the heart of a man' [or where the seed is sown in Matt 13], and with what you've also posted now, on 'regeneration' - I'm going to try guessing again with - Eze 18:31 & Eze 36:26 - Regeneration = given a 'new' heart, and also a new spirit to replace our dead spirit.
Prayer: Psalm 51:10
GOD Bless you both!
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| | 2012/4/5 0:24 | | philologos
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| | Re: | | by roadsign on 2012/4/5 1:34:56
"Regeneration, if as in Gr. anakainosis, ananeoo seems to be a process - as in renewal, reform, renovate, change for the better.
and have been clothed with the new man that is BEING RENEWED in knowledge according to the image of the one who created it. Col. 3:10
Do not be conformed to this present world, but be transformed by THE RENEWING OF YOUR MIND Rom. 12:2
You were taught with reference to your former way of life to lay aside the old man who is being corrupted in accordance with deceitful desires, to BE RENEWED IN THE SPIRIT OF YOUR MIND and to put on the new man who has been created in Gods image. Eph. 4:22-24 "
but anakainosis (Strong's G342 - anakainōsis) is not the word translated regeneration in our versions. That word is generally translated 'renewal' or 'renewing'. Refreshing would be a good translation. On the other hand regeneration is the word palingenesis (Strong's G3824 - paliggenesia) and as both words are used in Titus 3:5
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Tts&c=3&v=5&t=KJV#conc/5
it is clear that the words are not synonyms.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/trench/section.cfm?sectionID=18&lexicon=true&strongs=G342
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Ron Bailey
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| | 2012/4/5 6:12 | Profile | brothagary
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| | Re: | | is redemption being relesed from our sin prision ,through the process of regenisis or regeneration or better said recreation ,, we are redeemed by the blood in one scence as jusatfied ,and redemed by the spirt through santification ,through the process of the new birth
renewing your mind is something differnt from regeneration,.man plays a part in that ,,wile redemption and regenration is all of god ,,, |
| | 2012/4/5 7:31 | Profile | brothagary
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| | Re: | | does recreation or regeneration continue or is it done and compleate at the new birth ,does god continue to recreate us ,or does he then conform us to the image of his son ,which is slighty different ,,comformaty ,and regeneration |
| | 2012/4/5 7:42 | Profile | roadsign
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| | Re: | | Quote:
regeneration is the word palingenesis
Thats better! This word is used only once. It conveys the idea of rebirth, new creation:
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, Titus 3:5
From Titus 3:5: Regeneration is the means by which God saves us, ie delivers us - along with the renewing of the Spirit. Is regeneration is an event while renewing is a process? I tend to lean that way, yet regeneration seems to include the process of renewal too. Also we cannot pin the Spirits work down. The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit. Jn 3:8
And now the other question:
What of me is rebirthed, that is renewed, as distinct from retrieved as in redeemed?
I seem no further ahead in understanding your question Philologos. Perhaps another question is in order. Presently, I would say that the new man has more to do with Christ who works in me to change me to put behind old ways of thinking and doing that where dictated by sins rule, and to adopt new ways which reflect his nature through me. I dont see compartments about me at all - other than the inner being which is being renewed and physical body which is dying.
Perhaps other scriptures will be useful.
Diane
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| | 2012/4/5 8:05 | Profile |
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