| Poster | Thread | rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN
| | Re: | | To finish the Scriptural thought that you quoted we have this................................................
1Cr 10:2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
1Cr 10:3 all ate the same spiritual food,
1Cr 10:4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.
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Was Paul right in stating that these who were baptised into Moses all drank and eat the "same spiritual drink" which is "Christ?"
Is this true or not?
In Christ
Jeff
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Jeff Marshalek
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|  2010/7/13 10:57 | Profile | RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: | | Quote:
Was Paul right in stating that these who were baptised into Moses all drank and eat the "same spiritual drink" which is "Christ?"
Is this true or not?
It is true, but that is not the question we are asking. The benefits of Christ have been in play in part since the beginning. To partake of Christ is not the same as to be baptized 'into' Jesus Christ. It is this Spirit baptism that takes a person 'out' of fallen Adam and places them 'in' the Last Adam Jesus Christ (I Corinthians 15:40ff). This takes the possibilities to a whole new level. To be in fallen Adam is to be subject to Adam's condition and experience. He fell and was a slave to Sin so we are born in Adam a slave to Sin. To be Born AGain in Christ by the Spirit enables me to share in what Christ has done through the Cross. This is the primary aspect of the exceeding great and precious promises that enable us to be partakers of the Divine Nature, etc. They under the Old Covenant could not possibly have been in Christ and therefor were alive to Sin. This is why the Law worked death in them.
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Robert Wurtz II
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| | 2010/7/13 11:48 | Profile | rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN
| | Re: | | Quote:
They under the Old Covenant could not possibly have been in Christ and therefor were alive to Sin. This is why the Law worked death in them.
This thought brought this Scripture to mind:
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Psa 116:15 Precious in the sight of the LORD [Is] the death of His saints.
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Which then leads me to Paul's statement
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Gal 5:24 And those [who are] Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
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Returning to Paul's declaring that the nation of Israel was given the opportunity to eat and drink spiritual food that comes from Christ, this statement declares that that generation was not left to live a life of obedience based on only their human capabilities. And this is confirmed in many places in the Scripture.
The writer of Psalm 119 ascribes to the power of God that enables him to walk at liberty. Throughout his testimony he attributes God's work in his life for his salvation.
Likewise we see that the evidence of the spiritual work in Isaac's life created the same enmity that Christ experienced from those who live according to the flesh. If the Spirit had not worked in these men's lives, these men would not be hated by those who are not born from above.
Pentecost, according to Peter, was a time where the Holy Spirit was poured out "upon" the believers. In times of revival in the OT of both individuals and the nation of Israel we find the same example. Peter declares that this occurance is "that" what Joel prophesied. Many OT believers dreamed dreams and saw visions just like those at Pentecost.
In Christ
Jeff
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Jeff Marshalek
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| | 2010/7/13 12:45 | Profile | RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: | | Quote:
Many OT believers dreamed dreams and saw visions just like those at Pentecost.
This is true also. Certainly I think we need to give credit where credit is due. I think the great example of the difference between a person being under the Old Covenant and the New is in the life of the Apostle Paul. Prior to his experience he persecuted Stephen, after he became as Stephen. The difference in nature is sharp. I think the one great before/after difference is found:
I am crucified with Christ: neverthless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. (Galatians 2:20)
The life I 'now' live is a different life than I 'used' to live. I submit this change took place when Paul was baptized into Jesus Christ by the Spirit. Christ's experience became Paul's experience when he was baptized 'into' Christ. This is why Paul could say, "If ye then be dead and risen with Christ..." (Colossians 2:20 and Colossians 3:1).
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Robert Wurtz II
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| | 2010/7/13 13:04 | Profile | philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK
| | Re: | | Quote:
Pentecost, according to Peter, was a time where the Holy Spirit was poured out "upon" the believers. In times of revival in the OT of both individuals and the nation of Israel we find the same example. Peter declares that this occurance is "that" what Joel prophesied. Many OT believers dreamed dreams and saw visions just like those at Pentecost.
Jeff
The Holy Spirit was indeed 'poured out' as at other times but 'poured out' is not the only way that Luke describes this event...
"for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now." Acts 1:5 NKJV There is an extra dimension to the work of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.
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Ron Bailey
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| | 2010/7/13 13:24 | Profile | rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN
| | Re: | | Ron wrote:
] Quote:
The Holy Spirit was indeed 'poured out' as at other times but 'poured out' is not the only way that Luke describes this event...
I agree with you, there is much more....
First, To be more precise, the promise of the Holy Spirit was to be 'poured out" "on" those who called on the name of the Lord at Pentecost.
Secondly, this prophesy of Joel according to Peter, took place at Pentecost. But this is not the only time that this prophesy was or will be fulfilled.
..........................................................................................................................Joe 2:19 The LORD will answer and say to His people, "Behold, I will send you grain and new wine and oil, And you will be satisfied by them; I will no longer make you a reproach among the nations.
Joe 2:20 "But I will remove far from you the northern [army], And will drive him away into a barren and desolate land, With his face toward the eastern sea And his back toward the western sea; His stench will come up, And his foul odor will rise, Because he has done monstrous things."
Joe 2:21 Fear not, O land; Be glad and rejoice, For the LORD has done marvelous things!
Joe 2:22 Do not be afraid, you beasts of the field; For the open pastures are springing up, And the tree bears its fruit; The fig tree and the vine yield their strength.
Joe 2:23 Be glad then, you children of Zion, And rejoice in the LORD your God; For He has given you the former rain faithfully, [fn] And He will cause the rain to come down for you-- The former rain, And the latter rain in the first [month].
Joe 2:24 The threshing floors shall be full of wheat, And the vats shall overflow with new wine and oil.
Joe 2:25 "So I will restore to you the years that the swarming locust has eaten, The crawling locust, The consuming locust, And the chewing locust, [fn] My great army which I sent among you.
Joe 2:26 You shall eat in plenty and be satisfied, And praise the name of the LORD your God, Who has dealt wondrously with you; And My people shall never be put to shame.
Joe 2:27 Then you shall know that I [am] in the midst of Israel: I [am] the LORD your God And there is no other. My people shall never be put to shame.
Joe 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions.
Joe 2:29 And also on [My] menservants and on [My] maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
Joe 2:30 "And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: Blood and fire and pillars of smoke.
Joe 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.
Joe 2:32 And it shall come to pass [That] whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance, As the LORD has said, Among the remnant whom the.............................................................................................................
I believe that this section of Scripture teaches that we are to expect another out pouring of the Holy Spirit "on" those whom call on the name of the Lord.
The point I make is that the Scripture in Acts chapter two makes no distinction between the words "on" and "in." Scripture declares that "on" and 'In" are the same.
When Solomon writes by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit...........................
Pro 1:23 Turn at my rebuke; Surely I will pour out my spirit on you; I will make my words known to you.
The purpose for the work of the Holy Spirit that was poured out on those at Pentecost was to "make my words known to you."
In Christ
Jeff
_________________
Jeff Marshalek
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| | 2010/7/13 21:55 | Profile | rookie
Member
Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN
| | Re: | | RobertW wrote:
Quote:
think the great example of the difference between a person being under the Old Covenant and the New is in the life of the Apostle Paul.
Yes, I agree....
Paul knew the OT by heart. So when he heard the Lord rebuke him in this way:
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Act 9:5 And he said, "Who are You, Lord?" Then the Lord said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It [is] hard for you to kick against the goads."
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this OT Scripture must have come to mind during those 3 days of being blind.
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Ecc 12:11 The words of the wise are like goads, and the words of scholars are like well-driven nails, given by one Shepherd.
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Jesus said to him, "It is hard for you to kick against the goads." You see Jesus declared to Paul that He knew that Paul was struggling against the penetrating power of Scripture. Only God knows what is in the heart of man. And Paul knew for the first time that God does speak to man. And the words that Paul heard that day was a "well-driven nail(s), given by one Shepherd."
Yes, hearing God speak is life changing......
The law of God, the word of God is the tutor which leads us to die to self and live for Christ. The ways of this law are explained in the Parable of the Sower...and Psalm 119.
Those whom the Father draws come to Christ.
In Christ
jeff
_________________
Jeff Marshalek
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| | 2010/7/13 22:20 | Profile | rookie
Member
Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN
| | Re: | | The Parable of the Sower is a description of what takes place in those who allow the word of God to have it's way in their lives.
Those who overcome Satan, trials and persecution, and the cares of this life, are those who find themselves truly dead and can say I count all things loss so that I may gain Christ.
This is the law that leads us to Him. We cannot do it in our own strength. We like the writer of Psalm 119 must call on the name of the Lord for His grace that changes all things.
In Christ
Jeff
_________________
Jeff Marshalek
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| | 2010/7/14 7:05 | Profile | philologos
Member
Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK
| | Re: | | Jeff
Quote:
I believe that this section of Scripture teaches that we are to expect another out pouring of the Holy Spirit "on" those whom call on the name of the Lord.
The point I make is that the Scripture in Acts chapter two makes no distinction between the words "on" and "in." Scripture declares that "on" and 'In" are the same.
I don't think I have heard you say this before. Are you talking about a Second Blessing?
However there is a profound difference between 'on' and 'in'. It is similar to the difference between 'with' and in'. The former, in both cases, focuses on an external relationship while the latter focuses on the internal relationship. This is the fundamental difference between the Old and New Covenant; external v internal.
Quote:
Pro 1:23 Turn at my rebuke; Surely I will pour out my spirit on you; I will make my words known to you.
The purpose for the work of the Holy Spirit that was poured out on those at Pentecost was to "make my words known to you."
There were many outpourings in both covenants but the indwelling Christ in the person of his Spirit is a uniquely New Covenant experience.
Notice this famous passage...
"For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height 19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God." Eph 3:1419 NKJV
v17 says 'that' ie. 'so that'. The purpose of the indwelling Spirit is to make the indwelling Christ a reality. There can have been no indwelling Christ, in this sense, until Pentecost.
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Ron Bailey
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| | 2010/7/14 9:30 | Profile | rookie
Member
Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN
| | Re: | | Ron wrote:
Quote:
However there is a profound difference between 'on' and 'in'. It is similar to the difference between 'with' and in'. The former, in both cases, focuses on an external relationship while the latter focuses on the internal relationship. This is the fundamental difference between the Old and New Covenant; external v internal.
Peter states this:
........................................................
Act 2:17 'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams.
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Then Peter says this:
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Act 2:33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
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This out pouring "on" those who call on His name is explained this way at Pentecost:
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Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
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These Scriptures state that those whom the Lord "poured out" His Spirit "on" the disciples. When this occurred these disciples were "filled with the Spirit..."
The pouring out of the Spirit on men means that they are "filled with the Holy Spirit."
In Christ
Jeff
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Jeff Marshalek
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| | 2010/7/14 12:33 | Profile |
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