| Poster | Thread |
| | Re: "Intense" | | Quote:
Natan4Jesus wrote:
you asked this of ChrisJD: (in regards to our dialogue)
Quote:
Then why are you interjecting yourself into this?"
Because maybe he loves me as a brother in Christ, for which I am so grateful. Not the question to you, but the fact, that another follower of Jesus, loves me sight unseen. Knowing me not in the flesh, but in the Holy Spirit, that is the onus, the thrust of Jesus' "High Priestly Prayer" in John 17.
then you stated:
Quote:
I didn't wrong him. I asked a question.
the "question" being really slander buried into the guise of a "question", ie: Quote:
Can the rest of us take for granted you and Neil are of the emergent church crowd?
Do not think for a second that i am unaware of the schemes of the devil, which are to divide the Body of Christ, thru accusation, thru assumptions, which are voiced in this:
"can the rest of us [b]take for granted"...[/b]
If you desire to be an "inquistitor", the Lord will reveal to you the wrong spirit implicit n such an enterprise, I am confident of that.
[color=000000][i]Good grief . . (scratching head) what have we here?[/i] [/color] |
|  2009/5/17 11:53 | |
| | Re: | |
To ChrisJD:
[b]My retired friend, Chuck, is a retired Pastor, who sent a personal email to me, and he uses words from his heart.[/b] I decided to change a few words. Why does he get excited, because he hates sin, just like God hates sin, just as I hate sin.[b] And what these Pastors are doing is sinful, what these Pastors are doing is destroying Christ's Church.
Actually morons is a nice word in reference to these wolves, dressed up as sheep, who are pastoring their Churches right into the Tribulation. They are actually preparing their Christian Churches to merge with the false church, headed by the false prophet.[/b]
Sincerely,
Walter
Quote:
ChrisJD wrote:
Waltern,
"By email, I just received an interesting response from a friend, who is a retired Pastor:"
Why was the word that now reads 'morons' changed from what it was when you just posted it?
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| | 2009/5/17 11:54 | |
| | Lord have mercy on us! | | What sort of rhetoric is this?
Quote:
Every time you turn around one of these mystical morons has written yet another book, and another, and another ! ! ! And Christian people would rather read that kind of garbage than to study God's Word. In one respect that is so, so sad.
"mystical morons"?
and then assumption stacked upon assumption, about what "Christian people" would "rather read"?
I have never heard a Jesus filled preacher ever use the terminology, "Christian people"! This is just grievous poisonous rhetoric. "Mystical morons"? I still can't get over that bile.
I dove into this mud pit filled with everything unholy, unloving and just plain outright fleshly, and now I'm climbing out. But as I'm climbing out the question begs, "who really are the 'wolves'?"
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| | 2009/5/17 11:54 | |
| | Re: Lord have mercy on us! | |
To Natan4Jesus:
You, my friend have never heard a fire and brimstone Preacher. Like I said, this was a personal email to me from a retired Pastor, who I have known for many, many years. He has led more people to a saving relationship with Jesus Christ than you can even count.
[b]Lighten up, Natan, your thin skin is showing through. I have heard more rebuke from your own pen on this website, than I have ever heard from ANYONE else.[/b]
Sincerly,
Walter
Quote:
Natan4Jesus wrote:
What sort of rhetoric is this?
Quote:
Every time you turn around one of these mystical morons has written yet another book, and another, and another ! ! ! And Christian people would rather read that kind of garbage than to study God's Word. In one respect that is so, so sad.
"mystical morons"?
and then assumption stacked upon assumption, about what "Christian people" would "rather read"?
I have never heard a Jesus filled preacher ever use the terminology, "Christian people"! This is just grievous poisonous rhetoric. "Mystical morons"? I still can't get over that bile.
I dove into this mud pit filled with everything unholy, unloving and just plain outright fleshly, and now I'm climbing out. But as I'm climbing out the question begs, "who really are the 'wolves'?"
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| | 2009/5/17 12:04 | | ChrisJD
Member
Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA
| | Re: | | Waltern,
Quote:
Actually morons is a nice word in reference to these wolves, dressed up as sheep, who are pastoring their Churches right into the Tribulation. They are actually preparing their Christian Churches to merge with the false church, headed by the false prophet.
The origional word that you altered without telling others was an abbreviated form of a curse word.
You also removed the rest of the post that you wrote below the letter(EDIT: after rechecking the post, it looks as though the portion I mentioned that appeared to have been removed was possibly altered in emphasis/color rather than being removed. If that is the case I was wrong and applogise for causing any confusion).
EDIT: This above does not pertain to the word that was changed which now reads 'moron' but was before an abbreviated curse word.
_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow
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| | 2009/5/17 12:10 | Profile |
| | Re: | | [i]musing[/i]. . This is unbelievable! |
| | 2009/5/17 12:20 | | ChrisJD
Member
Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA
| | Re: | | Hi again everyone,
Paul told Timothy and Titus and those who would have oversight of others must not be self-willed, strikers, or brawlers(Titus 1:7, 1Ti 3:2-3)(KJV).
G4131
πλήκτης
plēktēs
plake'-tace
From G4141; a smiter, that is, pugnacious (quarrelsome): - striker.
G269
ἄμαχος
amachos
am'-akh-os
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G3163; peaceable: - not a brawler.
_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow
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| | 2009/5/17 12:23 | Profile |
| | Re: Calvary Chapel Termination Has Profound Implications | | When experience trumps doctrine, what is the limit of the imagination of man? When the foundations are destroyed, how can the temple stand?
Satan himself is very aware of this reality, and has proceeded to DIVIDE AND CONQUER by seducing men to believe another gospel, divorced from the restraints of Holy writ and command.
We are in the midst of the Great Falling Away, and the beginning of the End. "Oh, How the mighty have fallen!"
"Has God Said?" ; Satan continues to Eve, ...."and you shall surely be a god yourself", and will have more wisdom, "knowing the difference between good and evil." This is the FIRST fundamental LUST, and the same as Lucifer committed as he strove to usurp the very Throne from the Father Himself.
This is the anti-thesis to the Cross itself. Rather than deny you yourself, fulfill myself. The spirit of man lust to envy, and prone to become as our Creator to know. It is the heart of rebellion, and supremely Babylonian in nature.
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| | 2009/5/17 12:27 | | ccchhhrrriiisss
Member
Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779
| | Re: | | Hi ChrisJD (and everyone)
Quote:
I think it would be misrepresenting Chris to suggest that he doesn't believe Christians should be united on fundamental doctrines.
I can't speak for him, but perhaps he would rather object to it being demanded that he accept, for instance
Yes, brother, this is how I feel.
I do believe that there are many doctrines that are plain enough from the Scriptures that nearly every true believer can agree upon. These doctrines are clear
spelled out in their entirety in the Word of God. While we may disagree with the branches or implications of those doctrines, their underlying root is common in all believers.
Why did I interject within this conversation in the first place? It had nothing to do with anyone's desire to warn believers about the philosophies of the Emergent Church. Rather, I was focused upon comments about denominations. I truly believe that the Body of Christ, as a whole, is separated by doctrines that are not entirely spelled out by the Word of God. Denominations and local congregations are often alienated from one another by a set of sectarian creeds that are strongly embraced by some and strongly rejected by others.
My point is this: Should our local congregations, pastors, teachers or denominations DEMAND that believers adhere to a peculiar set of doctrinal beliefs or practices? Should believers be REJECTED from fellowship with a local fellowship of believers based upon whether or not they adhere to that same peculiar set of doctrinal beliefs or practices? Is it the role of a local Church to set up so many doctrinal peculiarities in the first place?
Differences of opinion are not limited to the modern Church organization or denominational structure. They existed during the early days of the Church as well. I urge the brethren to read Acts chapter 15. There were already sharp disagreements regarding doctrine. Some believers were teaching that circumcision was a requirement for salvation. It became so heated that a delegation was sent to the Apostles in Jerusalem to find an answer to this question. When Paul reported to the apostles, they deliberated over the question.
Eventually, Peter stood up and gave some great counsel. He said, [i]Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they[/i] (Acts 15:10-11).
James added, [i]Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day[/i] (Acts 15:19-21).
In other words, the apostles didnt make an excessive list of doctrines that they felt were imperative for the church. They didnt create some sort of spiritual contract that would need to be followed in order to be a part of the Church. In fact, they did the opposite. James urged the brethren to trouble not them (in other words, to not make it difficult). In fact, he explained that Moses has been preached since ancient times
and that the Word of God is still read in synagogues (Acts 15:21). Today, most of our meetings are not for the pure "encouragement" between the brethren as we see that day approaching (Hebrews 10:24-25) or even a reading of the Word of God. Rather, our meetings often involve the public [i]interpretation[/i] of Scripture.
I think that we have largely missed the point that Peter and James were trying to make. Today, many of our churches (including the Sunday morning services) have often turned into indoctrination centers where even peculiar doctrines are presented as undeniable truth. Admission into the local Body is conditional upon adherence to the creed of the local Body (or a pastor
set of elders
or a national denomination). Often, the focus is no longer on simply knowing Jesus, but how we interpret particular sets of Scripture.
This, of course, isnt confined to a local congregation or a national denomination. How many very heated debates have taken place on SermonIndex? Most of these are not about the simple matters of faith in Christ Jesus. Rather, they involve doctrinal peculiarities. Too often, we judge (silently or rhetorically) those around us by whether or not they see the same things as we do. Even more often, I feel that we have a tendency to present our views as if they are written in stone. However, I believe that our doctrinal peculiarities MUST be seasoned with an indication that these are personal persuasions. I also think that we should not present any non-essential doctrinal views as a condition for fellowship or admission into a congregation (let alone, as a condition for salvation).
Why is this? The Gospel is literally good news. It isnt (nor should it be) complicated or convoluted by the opinions of man. It is a simple message of God's love for a fallen world that He created. Yet the modern church is plagued by a desire to use our own experiences and doctrinal views as the primer by how they judge the maturity or authenticity of the faith of others. A person can come to Christ in sincerity; but, if that person doesnt eventually embrace a particular set of doctrinal views, they are dismissed as immature, unwise
or worse.
Most modern denominations (and many, many local congregations) are bound, not simply by the Blood of Jesus, but by compulsory adherence to a particular set of doctrinal views. I certainly believe in discussing issues and ideas about the Word of God. However, is that what happens here? Do we [i]discuss[/i] doctrines
or do we present doctrines as truth? Maybe the problem is that we are [i]too easily[/i] persuaded about something? Or perhaps we too quickly present something as truth without realizing that it is merely an interpretation?
My whole point in this was not to create some sort of ecumenical bridge between believers. Rather, I wanted to point that believers are already bound by the Blood of our Savior. Yet far too often, we burn those bridges because of doctrinal peculiarities. We surround ourselves with believers who feel the same as we do
or we spend our time trying to get them to see things our way. I dont care how certain you feel about a doctrinal peculiarity or how long and intensely you have prayed and studied about it: There will still be some other believer who has also prayed and studied about the same matter who arrives to a different opinion. Unfortunately, there are many believers, congregations and denominations who will be willing to dismiss you as a "heretic" solely because of a matter of doctrinal difference.
Now, most of the time, we dont consider people heretics for our differences. We simply view them as wrong...less knowledgable...less spiritual. I am not saying that we must believe the same way about every matter (not at all). What I am saying is that we can agree on those fundamental doctrines that are most important, and gracefully allow brethren to disagree on other matters.
There is so much diversity of opinion on SermonIndex. We come from different backgrounds, associations and affiliations (or lack of affiliations). Yet we gather because we are blessed by the resources available here. One thing that I love about men like Leonard Ravenhill is that they were far less concerned with doctrinal peculiarities than with a far more important underlying message: What will you do with Jesus? Are you truly hungry for a real and intimate relationship with Jesus Christ? Is knowing Jesus Christ the center and focus of your life?
Perhaps this is the essence of what I am saying. Have we complicated the matter of faith in Christ to ourselves and others? Is this the reason the modern Church is in the condition that it is in? Is this the reason that faith in Christ isn't so contageous in this dying world? Is the reason that revival is thwarted in the greater Body of Christ because we have built doctrinal walls between believers that are locked with the locks of personal perception? Perhaps we have mingled what we consider to be the foundation of the Church with the sands of our own understanding?
God help us return to the simplicity of the "good news" of Jesus Christ! We can discuss matters of doctrine...and even differ in opinion about the meaning of some things. Yet we should always remain steadfast in the centrality of simply knowing God.
_________________
Christopher
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| | 2009/5/17 14:54 | Profile |
| | Re: | |
ccchhhrrriiisss, appreciated your answer.
You have provided an answer consisting of over 1600 words.
You conclude your post with the following:
Quote:
[b]Perhaps this is the essence of what I am saying. Have we complicated the matter of faith in Christ to ourselves and others? Is this the reason the modern Church is in the condition that it is in? Is this the reason that faith in Christ isn't so contageous in this dying world? Is the reason that revival is thwarted in the greater Body of Christ because we have built doctrinal walls between believers that are locked with the locks of personal perception? Perhaps we have mingled what we consider to be the foundation of the Church with the sands of our own understanding?
God help us return to the simplicity of the "good news" of Jesus Christ! We can discuss matters of doctrine...and even differ in opinion about the meaning of some things. Yet we should always remain steadfast in the centrality of simply knowing God.[/b]
My response is the absolute opposite of your conclusion.
I was not addressing sermoninidex, I was addressing the problems in the Church, that have created their slide into apostasy. and specifically my Church, Calvary Chapel.
Today, within the Church, we have true believers, who are the sheep, as well as goats (liberals, & non-believers) who are pretending to be sheep. These goats are the ones that that are constantly pushing for a broader path and a wider gate.
Christ told us there is only one way to heaven, His way, with the narrow way, and the strait gate, and FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT
(Matthew 7:13-20)
3. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17. Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
The Church of today has not heeded Christs commands. We are to be separate, and set apart. [b]The Church is described in the Bible as an assembly of Believers. [/b]The Pastors of our day have made it an assembly of the believers and the non-beleivers, an assembly of the sheep and the goats! That is the reason we are sliding into apostacy!
Today, we have our Christian Colleges, Biola as only one example, who are nothing more than Christian in name, who are teaching new spirituality (ie contemplative/emerging spirituality) which is nothing new at all. It is Satans form of spirituality and is nothing more than Catholicism & Hinduism combined.
[b]If our Christian Churches were worth their salt, and had actually taught the doctrines of our faith to the parents and children, then what is taking place at Biola would be exposed and discredited.
The Churches have failed in teaching doctrine, and that failure goes right back to the newer versions of the Bible, created by the Liberals (& both closet Catholics) Westcott and Hort in 1881. [/b]
Sincerely,
Walter |
| | 2009/5/19 11:10 | |
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