2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

"Righteousness", "Man of God", first of all where does our righteousness come from? Not the Law or David, or Abraham, or Moses, we cannot be righteousness without the Christ in us which makes us righteous before God, not what we do but what He does through and in us.

What, is a man of God, but a son of God, who's Seed has made us son's. Not the seed of the Law or David or Abraham etc. for it condemns and kills. Only Christ Can give Life.

Four fifths of the bible was written to Israel and containing all the Law, you cannot separate ceremonial and moral. The law either makes you completely righteous before God or it condemns you before God. Is not the seventh day Sabbath a ceremonial Law imbedded in the, what you call the moral Law, it is all the Law of God.

Amos 5:21-27 I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies. Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept them: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts. Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols. But let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream. Have ye offered unto me sacrifices and offerings in the wilderness forty years, O house of Israel? But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves. Therefore will I cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus, saith the LORD, whose name is The God of hosts.

Deu 11:22 For if ye shall diligently keep all these commandments which I command you, to do them, to love the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, and to cleave unto him;

They could not, how do you expect us to do it?

There is only One that did and that is who God is depending on to keep his Law, even the Law of the Sabbath, for He is that Sabbath Himself.

John 5:36-47 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. I receive not honour from men. But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

This is why Moses was sent, not for the Law, but to give us hope that we might believe the Moses concerning Jesus Christ whom has been revealed to us now, by the Preaching of Paul.

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

The Law is God and it is good, For it leads us to the Law of Love Himself and that is what God is all about. He could care less about the Law, he does not want your sacrifices or keeping of the Law, He wants your Love, free and clear without respect to punishment or condemnation. Sure I would do what God says, If I could, which I cannot, to keep from dying in sin and having to accept the punishment for breaking that Law. That is not the Kind of Love God wants. He wants the same Love the Son, that is the only begotten Son, gave Him. How is it that the Family of God which we are born into, gave its prized possession just to get you and show you what true Love is. He did it because of the pain in Gods heart over His creation. If we cannot see that that Pain is what makes us children of God we truly don't see what the Love of God is all about. God wants me to love Him because He first loved me, not because I keep His law. Christ gave us new commandments, all of them have no condemnation but the righteousness of Christ Himself birthed in us, these commandments are Love and Paul tries to get us to understand it in the gifts that Christ has in Himself and are distributed by the Holy Spirit to us to build up the body of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:27-31 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

The More Excellent Way:

1 Corinthians 13:1-13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

1 Corinthians 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

1 Corinthians 14:37-40 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order.

This is why The Love commandments are between 12 and 14. If all things are not done in Love including believing that Jesus Christ died for us because He love us and the Father Killed Him because He loves us so much.

God hates our law keeping because it keeps us rapped up in our own works and we cannot love Him. That is why He put Christ in the believer that we might learn by the Holy Spirit how God wants to be loved. Our obedience will be perfect when we accept that Love and return that Love by the Life of Christ in us. Love God and rest in Christ and the Sabbath will take care of itself in Christ. He is our Sabbath.

In Christ: Phillip

_________________
Phillip

Hi Jayme.


Jayme, you asked


"How is God going to judge us, without being partial if he is going to use a different law for the Israel and different law for the gentiles."


I put together some verses to consider.


[b][color=000000]So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. [/color][/b]


[i]as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty[/i]


[b][color=000000]Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. [/color][/b]


[i]...where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty[/i]


[b][color=000000]But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.[/color][/b]

[i]...that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter[/i]


[b][color=660033]My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me[/color][/b]


I beleive those who are in Christ Jesus, have already passed through the judgement of the Law. Christ was condemned in their place. And raised for their justification.


You also said,


"I cannot understand how you can look at the Ten commandments and not see God's character being revealed."


But in Christ, we see God's very image.



[b][color=000000]Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: [/color][/b]


And it is Christ we are to be conformed to.


[b][color=000000]But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.[/color][/b]


By the Spirit of the Lord.



Jayme you also said,


"Do I want to be refreshed, most certainly. and believe you me, every sabbath is a refreshing day for me. Is the day of the week that I long for. by the end of it, I already long for the next one."



Jayme, I am glad that you are refreshed. It is good. Isaiah speaks of another rest too, where he says


[b][color=000000]For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.[/color][/b]


[i]This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing[/i]


I think Paul indicates this rest comes through the Holy Spirit in 1Corinthians 14:21-22



Dear brothers and sisters, I hope to not spend much more time in this discussion. I hope that something I have written has been helpfull. If I have offended or confused anyone please forgive me and I hope and look to God to take away anything false in the thoughts I have expressed, in your hearts and mine.



Would like to spend some time looking to Canton with you all.


Peace be with you all in Christ Jesus.


Chris

_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

And this is for the Christian, not Jew or Gentile.

Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

2Ti 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

This mystery no one had, it was only revealed to Paul, by Jesus Christ Himself.

We are the new generation of creature, a new race of People, that being Christ ones, son's of God. No one new it or could believe it or receive the mystery, they, that is the old testament saints, did not even know that the Mesiah would be the Son of God. They did not know His Name, how could they believe?

1Jo 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

There is a separation of the Old Testament Saints who were created by God and saved by the Mercy of God, and the New Testament Saints and believers unto sonship, these being birthed by God not created beings, but spiritual beings being Born Again of the Spirit an the Water of Life in Christ Jesus, because we believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and even on His Name.

Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

1Jo 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Now being the Sabbath that is of Spirit, not of the works of the law by Sabbath day keeping, but in Spirit by the Christ that is in us, the Sabbath of the Spiritual Rest we have in Christ Jesus, whom's rest we have entered that God had promised. The Law Sabbath being just a picture of what this glorious rest in Christ Himself would be. He Truly is our Sabbath. Amen.

In Christ: Phillip

_________________
Phillip

William Burkitt's Expository Notes
Heb 4:4
For the clearer understanding of these words, we must know, that there is a three-fold rest spoken of in scripture, all which are called His, that is, God's rest, being all of his appointing and providing: namely,
1. The rest of the sabbath day, in remembrance of God's resting from the work of creation.

2. The typical rest in the land of Canaan.

3. An eternal rest with God in heaven, of which the sabbath and the Israelites' rest in Canaan were a type and figure.

Now the apostle's design is, to prove that the rest which God principally intends for his people is this last rest, namely, an everlasting rest with himself in heaven; and this he evidently proves, because if that rest which they had obtained in the land of Canaan, under the conduct of Joshua, called (in Syriac) Jesus, had been all the rest which Almighty God ever intended for them, then it had been needless for David in the 95th Psalm, which was penned a long time after, even some hundreds of years, to make mention of any other rest.

But this he does, and therefore infers, that there is a third rest yet to come, which by the preaching of the gospel was now proposed to them, and that under the same promised and threatenings with the former. If Jesus, of Joshua, had given them the true spiritual and eternal rest here spoken of, in Canaan, then would not David afterward have spoken of another rest after their rest in Canaan; which seeing he has done, the apostle concludes, there must yet remain a farther rest to be enjoyed by the people of God.

From the whole note, That God has by promise given his people a full assurance of enjoying a rest upon condition of faith, and this another manner of rest than that of Canaan, which the Israelites of old did enjoy.

That Rest is in Christ who has seated us un Heaven with Him.

Eph 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:

Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],

Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:

Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

All this is explained in Heb 14:

Hebrews 4:1-16 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

It is not the Seventh Day on this earth if you are in Christ, it is the Day of Rest we have attined in heavenly places in Christ Jesus our Lord.

In Christ: Phillip

_________________
Phillip

Dear brother Phillip

You also quoted verses from mark, luke and John mentioning the first day.

I have added more verses to them and asked you to comment on them.

Here they are again:

Quote: Mar 16:9 Now when [Jesus] was risen early the first [day] of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
But you forgot to say on chapter 16:1

Mark 16:1-2 Now when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, that they might come and anoint Him. 2 Very early in the morning, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen.

I ask you again, What day did Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome waited to pass until they came to see Jesus? Did they keep the sabbath as the commandments asked them?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Then You quote:
Luk 24:1 Now upon the first [day] of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain [others] with them.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Again you forgot to say:

Luke 23:54 - 24:2 That day was the Preparation, and the Sabbath drew near. 55 And the women who had come with Him from Galilee followed after, and they observed the tomb and how His body was laid. 56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

NKJ Luke 24:1 Now on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they, and certain other women with them.

I ask you again. What day the followers of Jesus Rested according to the commandment?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Brother Phillip

You wrote:

""""""""I don't live in the old testament there is no life in it, including Abraham, Isaac, David, the 10 Commandments, the seventh day Sabbath, etc.

I live now, and that is Christ in me the Hope of Glory. This is the place there is only life.
Not in the Law of the Commandments or any other law. There is only one law now and that is the Law of Life in Christ Jesus our Lord."""""
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Brother phillip, I think you just made statements here that perhaps you shouldn't.

Please read this story that Jesus told:

Luke 16:19-31 There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 "But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 "desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 "So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 "And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 "Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25 "But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.' 27 "Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house, 28 'for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.' 29 "Abraham said to him, 'They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.' 30 "And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' 31 "But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' "
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

what a statement from Christ.

"Abraham said to him, 'They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

But the man did not think that moses and the prophets was good enough to prevent them from going to Hell, so he asked for something supernatural to happen.
The dead to come back to life so that his brothers would listen.

what did abraham said to Him.

31 "But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' "

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Wow, what a statement from Jesus.


So I would be very careful to make statements such as:

""""""""I don't live in the old testament there is no life in it, including Abraham, Isaac, David, the 10 Commandments, the seventh day Sabbath, etc.""""""""
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The Bible brother is the word of God and a whole. OT is the NT concealed and the NT is the OT revelead. Please do not separate it by saying one is good and the other is not.

Again, Jesus said that if someone cannot be persuaded by Moses and the prophets not even the dead coming back to life would persuade them.

Dear brother ChrisJD.

Thank you again for your message.


Quote:"""""Jayme, you asked


"How is God going to judge us, without being partial if he is going to use a different law for the Israel and different law for the gentiles."
I put together some verses to consider.


So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
...where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

...that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me
I beleive those who are in Christ Jesus, have already passed through the judgement of the Law. Christ was condemned in their place. And raised for their justification.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Brother Chris, again you wrote a few verses but you did not really answer my question?


How is God going to judge us, without being partial if he is going to use a different law for the Israel and different law for the gentiles?

My other question is, this law of liberty that you mentioned.

Can I intentionally and repeatedly break any of the Ten Commandments laws and not sin against God because Jesus died for me, therefore I am justified forever?
Just to remind you that Paul said through the law there is the knowledge os sin.

Please explain to me this law of liberty, are there things that I Can or cannot do? and things that should or shouldn't do?

God gave Israel fair and just judgements, but they, with their stiff neck, did not obey, nor had delight in Gods perfect Law. So God told Israel, you will keep my commandments, because if you do not you will be put to death.
So brother, if you were part of Gods people, you had to keep the commandments or else you would be put to death.
The Law of the sabbath was no different. God gave the sabbath to us as the last act of creation. then He said, remember to keep it holy, and finally He said, you will keep it holy or you will die.

Now, do you have liberty to choose if you want to keep it or not?
If you choose not to keep are you going to be put to death?

We will be judged by the law of liberty but liberty of choice, One day, everyone will stand judgement, and the judge is God Himself, The only Lawgiver, and we will be judged in accordance to his laws and judgments. You, through the law of liberty, have the choice to choose if you want to obey or not, as opposed to israel, but there will be a reward whichever way you decide to go. Life to those who keep His commandments and eternal death to those who practice lawlessness.

Please I am not passing judgment on you brother. I am just saying that if you intentionally and repeadetly break one of the commandments, you have broken them all.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I read that you don't want to continue this discussions.
I want you to know that it has been a pleasure to exchange words with you brother.

May God bless you continually in your journey to eternal life.

I hope that one day Jesus introduces you to me up in heaven. I cannot wait for the day all of this will be just a memory.

I just want to finish this with a verse from nehemiah.

Nehemiah 9:13-17 You came down also on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven, And gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments. 14 You made known to them Your holy Sabbath, And commanded them precepts, statutes and laws, By the hand of Moses Your servant. 15 You gave them bread from heaven for their hunger, And brought them water out of the rock for their thirst, And told them to go in to possess the land Which You had sworn to give them. 16 " But they and our fathers acted proudly, Hardened their necks, And did not heed Your commandments. 17 They refused to obey, And they were not mindful of Your wonders That You did among them. But they hardened their necks, And in their rebellion They appointed a leader To return to their bondage. But You are God, Ready to pardon, Gracious and merciful, Slow to anger, Abundant in kindness, And did not forsake them.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Chapter 14

THE SABBATH IS GOD'S HOLY DAY, NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE THAT.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Here is that last chapter of the OT.

Malachi 4:1-6 "For behold, the day is coming, Burning like an oven, And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up," Says the LORD of hosts, "That will leave them neither root nor branch. 2 But to you who fear My name The Sun of Righteousness shall arise With healing in His wings; And you shall go out And grow fat like stall-fed calves. 3 You shall trample the wicked, For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet On the day that I do this," Says the LORD of hosts. 4 "Remember the Law of Moses, My servant, Which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel, With the statutes and judgments. 5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD. 6 And he will turn The hearts of the fathers to the children, And the hearts of the children to their fathers, Lest I come and strike the earth with a curse."

verse 1, talks about the final judgement.
verse 4, remember the law of moses, which are my statutes and judgements.


Interesting enough the last word of the OT is the word """"CURSE"""".

God bless you.

Quote:

""The Bible brother is the word of God and a whole. OT is the NT concealed and the NT is the OT revelead. Please do not separate it by saying one is good and the other is not.

Again, Jesus said that if someone cannot be persuaded by Moses and the prophets not even the dead coming back to life would persuade them.""



I have never said the old is not good and the new is.

But God has made a distinction between the Two.

1Cr 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation [of the gospel] is committed unto me.

Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:

Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

I am not a hyper dispensationalist, but a dispensation is an economy, a period of time that stewardship changes. Christ is our steward, It is the dispensation of Grace that will and is fulfilling the word of God. That Grace is "Christ in you the Hope of Glory."

Strong's Greek Dictionary
3622. oikonomia
Search for G3622 in KJVSL
oikonomia oikonomia oy-kon-om-ee'-ah
from 3623; administration (of a household or estate); specially, a (religious) "economy":--dispensation, stewardship.

There is a difference, you make the choice.

I don't believe the new is superior, but I do believe you cannot use 1973 Chevy PU, Moses manual to fix or overhaul a 2002 Chevy PU, Christ's manual, purchased new.

Paul's gospel brings forth a new creature in the birthing. Not a fixed up creature by Moses manual. A new complete Chevy with its own Manual. Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

"according to the dispensation of God", New Steward, Jesus Christ, New owners manual, called "My Gospel", by Paul, Author: Jesus Christ, Teacher: Holy Spirit in you.

Old dispensation, Moses, Abraham, David, pointing to the new dispensation. Author God. Teacher: God and His Holy Spirit with you.

No old testament saint has not this New dispensation model. Each one that is born again is a complete new model and has its own owners manual, Author: Jesus Christ, Teacher: Holy Spirit. You cannot fix a born again believer by the Moses works Law Manual. You must have the Year and Model Manual, to deal with the New Creature.

Hbr 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

In Christ a complete new model. Who was the first new model from the dead.

The old model sacrifice is not the same as the New Model Sacrifice, is it?

A Christ one, a son: Phillip

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Phillip

Dear brother Phillip,

quote:
"""Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,"""

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Brother phillip, I keep asking you not to quote one verse of scripture to make it say whatever you want.

but since you have mentiones romans 2, Let's talk about it them, let's see if it backs up your comments. Let's see how we will be judged.

Let's see what romans 2 really says, and I mean the whole chapter not just two verses.

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Verse 1.

Romans 2:1 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.


Paul is talking about us judging other on the first verse. If we judge we condemn ouselves.
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Verse 2

Romans 2:2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things.


Paul says that God's righteous judgments will be against those who practice such things, what things? judging others.
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Verse 3

Romans 2:3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God?


again, Paul is talking about those who judge others and he askes them, do you think you will scape God's judgements for doing this?
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Verse 4

Romans 2:4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?

Paul says that is God's goodness that leads us to repentance.
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verse 5

Romans 2:5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

Paul here says that some of us have hard and impenitent hearts, even though God's goodness is what leads as into repetance, we refuse it. and we are storing wrath for us in the day of judgments.
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Verse 6

Romans 2:6 who "will render to each one according to his deeds":

Look what Paul says here.

God will render to each one of us according to our deeds. So the fruits(deeds) after giving your life to Jesus is very important. Or am I wrong?
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Verse 7

Romans 2:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

What is Paul saying here? Your faith produces good works, or good deeds? and through your faith and good deeds you will receive eternal life.
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Verse 8

Romans 2:8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness -- indignation and wrath,

What is this truth that some are not obeying, and instead are obeying unrighteousness?

Look what peter says about the judgment.

1 Peter 4:17-18 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?
18 Now "If the righteous one is scarcely saved, Where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?"

1 Peter 4:18 on the new international version.

And, "If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"
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verse 9-10-11

Romans 2:9-11 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

Here brother Phillip, Paul makes it very clear to me, that the Jew and the greek will be punish if they do evil, and the oposite will happen to those who do good, and Paul is very clear,

FOR THERE IS NO PARTIALITY WITH GOD.

So I believe that the same laws that apply to the jew apply to us as well, for we all will be judged and for in order for Him to be impartial, He has to judge us all by the same guidelines. Ten commandments.
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verse 12

Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law.

Look at this verse. for those who never regarded the law will perish, why? because withouth the law there is no sin, and where there is no sin, there is no need for a sacrifice for atonement, Jesus. but Paul says that there is no one good, no not one. We all fell short of the glory of God. So we need the law to revel sin to us.

If you sinned in the law will also be judged by the very law that you sinned against.
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verse 13

Romans 2:13 for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;

Well this verse does not even need a comment.

Paul clearly says here that only the doers of the law will be justified and opposed to those who only hear it and do not obey it.
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verse 14

Romans 2:14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,

Here there is something really interesting.

Paul says that the gentiles doesn't have the law, but by nature to the things of the law.
Gentiles do not have the law, but they do the things of the law and become a law to themselves. and on the next verse paul explains how it happens.
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verse 15

Romans 2:15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them).

See Paul is talking about the gentiles who doen't have the law but are doers of the law and they become a law to themselves by showing the work of the law that is written in their hearts and their conscience.

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Verse 16

Romans 2:16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

one day God will judge everybody, every intent of the heart will be exposed and on that day every lawless deed that we did not repent and confes will be exposed and we will have to give account to God.
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Verse 17-18

Romans 2:17-18 Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on the law, and make your boast in God, 18 and know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law,

Here Paul is talking about the jew that rest on the law, the jew the aprove the excellent things that the law instruct them, and paul also says that the law reveal the will of God( know His will). and Paul goes on saying
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verse 19-20-21-22-23

Romans 2:19-20 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and truth in the law. 21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say, "Do not commit adultery," do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?

Here Paul is saying exactly what Jesus said to the pharisees.

They boast about having the law, but they are only heares of the law but they do not practice it. Paul said

Romans 2:13 for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;

Please I don't want anybody to think that I am preaching justification by works, for I have said many times you can only be justified by faith in Christ, but this faith has to produce good fruits, with to me comes by obeying His commandments.
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verse 24-25

Romans 2:24-25 For "the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you," as it is written. 25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.

Paul is saying here that because of their Hypocrisy. do what I say not do what I do. that they name of God was being blaspheed among the gentiles.
The Jew thought that by being circumcised in the flesh would make you right with God. and paul said that even though they were circuncised they because uncircuncised by breaking the law.
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verse 26

Romans 2:26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision?

Paul here says someone becomes circuncised by keeping the righteous requrements of the law, isn't this circumcision of the heart? isn't exactly what God wants from us.
exactly what moses said.

Deuteronomy 10:16 "Therefore circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and be stiff-necked no longer.
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verse 27-28-29

Romans 2:27-29 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

Paul says here that the uncircuncised that fulfils the law will judge those who the law was written to, but are law transgressors?

On the last verse Paul says that circumcision is of the heart, not in the letter. Moses said that we should circumsise our hearts and me stiff necked no more.
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I would love to see your explanation verse by verse of this chapter.

God bless

Dear brother Phillip,

quote:""""There is a separation of the Old Testament Saints who were created by God and saved by the Mercy of God, and the New Testament Saints and believers unto sonship, these being birthed by God not created beings, but spiritual beings being Born Again of the Spirit an the Water of Life in Christ Jesus, because we believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and even on His Name.""""
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Dear brother I do not see this separation at all, we are all God's children. there won't be any separation up in heaven of the children of Israel and us. for there is one city that Jesus went to prepare for us, and it is called the new jerusalem, remember the gates with the names of the tribes os israel.

at least that is where I am heading to.
I cannot think as myself being any greater than moses, elijah, david, Jeremiah, elishah, and so many other that gave their whole life to serve God. jut because I had the oportunity to give my life to jesus. We know for sure that Jesus was with the father since the creation of everything. So I believe that everything that was done in the OT was done by Jesus himself, so I don't see Us from the NT and a better place than anybody that were saved from the OT. for Paul said.

Romans 4:16 6 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

yes, through my faith in christ I am a son of abraham and an heir to the promises. Praise the Lord.