1. the sabbath

The holy day which we call saturday which is one of the ten commandments and we are suppose to keep.

2. Sabbaths

Special sabbath at the beginning of the month which a festival or feast has a special purpose or marks the celebration of something.

There are two types of 'keeping the sabbath'

1. Where Israel was punished and they had to do nothing.

2. The day which is called the day of restoration.
the sabbath in which we are supposed to rest, relax and not worry about work and stuff.
Why do you think Jesus almost only healed on the Sabbath? Well most of the times.

Read the bible, it has all the answers in the world. ( I dont mean this in a rude kind of way.)

_________________
esvl

Hi, you have written two messages and I will try to answear them separatelly.

Quote:

" why is it that the Apostles worshipped on the first day of the week instead of on the customary seventh day of the week?"

I have never found this statement in my bible. Where in the bible I can find this statement?



Are you referring to this passage?

Acts 20:6-8 But we sailed away from Philippi after the Days of Unleavened Bread, and in five days joined them at Troas, where we stayed seven days. 7 Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight. 8 There were many lamps in the upper room where they were gathered together.

Becauuse if it is then We have to stablish what break bread really mean?


I have a few verses for you to read....

(Lamentations 4:4)"...The young children ask for bread, But no one breaks it for them."


(Mark 8:19)"When I broke the five loaves for the five thousand…" (Mark 8:19)

In reference to Paul on the Alexandrian ship to Italy:
Acts 27:35 And when he had said these things, he took bread and gave thanks to God in the presence of them all; and when he had broken it he began to eat.

Luke 24:34-37 "The Lord is risen indeed, and has appeared to Simon!" 35 And they told about the things that had happened on the road, and how He was known to them in the breaking of bread. 36 Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, "Peace to you." 37 But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit.

Acts 2:46-47 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, 47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.

Acts 2:46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart,

They were breaking bread from house to house. In all the texts above I cannot see how you could understand that you are supposed to Keep the first day of the Week because the disciples came together, after the unlevened bread, and broke bread. Could it be that break bread means just to eat....

Here is the thesaurus defition of the word break bread.

To break bread = To eat.

Now I will give you proof that not only Paul went to the synagogues on the Sabbath(Seventh Day) but Jesus did as well.

Mark 1:17-22 Then Jesus said to them, "Follow Me, and I will make you become fishers of men." 18 They immediately left their nets and followed Him. 19 When He had gone a little farther from there, He saw James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, who also were in the boat mending their nets. 20 And immediately He called them, and they left their father Zebedee in the boat with the hired servants, and went after Him. 21 Then they went into Capernaum, and immediately on the Sabbath He entered the synagogue and taught. 22 And they were astonished at His teaching, for He taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

Mark 6:2 And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue. And many hearing Him were astonished, saying, "Where did this Man get these things? And what wisdom is this which is given to Him, that such mighty works are performed by His hands!


Luke 13:10 Now He was teaching in one of the synagogues on the Sabbath.

Look at this...


Luke 4:16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read.

It was Jesus custom to be at the synagogue on the Sabbath Day, not first day, Sabbath Day.


Look Paul just imitating Jesus....


Acts 13:14-16 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down. 15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, "Men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on." 16 Then Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said, "Men of Israel, and you who fear God, listen.


Acts 13:42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.

When is the Gentiles asking Paul to preach to them? yes, on the following SAbbath, not first day.. Go on reading and you will see what happen in the next SAbbath...

Acts 13:44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.

I think I have made my point. Jesus and his disciples and the Apostle Paul had the same Custom to go to the synagogue on the Sabbath. it is repeated time and time again all throughout the scriptures and very clearly. but then Some, because there is a verse saying the Paul broke bread with the disciples on the first day, We assume that somehow Paul was telling us to have fellowship on the first day.

Paul goes to the Synagogue on the Sabbath, and please do not say that it was because he was trying to persuade the Jews, because in one of the verses above says that the Gentiles were there as well they ask Paul to preach for them in the next Sabbath.

Please if the reason why we should go on the first day is other than the one I have mentioned above, please do let me know because I have searched my bible all over to find evidence to it but just cannot find. I would love to know where did Paul showed us or commanded us that.

Please do let me know....





May the Lord of the SAbbath alse be the Lord of our lives.

Jayme

Hi again I will try to comment of your second message...


Quote:
"Do I understand correctly that you believe part of the Ten Commandments to be revelant and part not?"

Absolutelly not. The Ten Commandments reflects the character of God. which is Love. every single commandment God gave us on the Ten Commandments talks about Love.

The first four commandments.

The Love that we have to demostrate towards him.

If you Love Him.
1-You shall have no other Gods but me.

If you Love Him.
2-You shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it.

If you Love Him
3-You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

If you Love Him
4- Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Now These are the commandments regarding how we Show love to Him, that Created us.


The Six other Commandments talks about our love towards our fellow men.

Look what John says:

1 John 4:21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.

John is very clear, if we love our brothers we are demonstrating Love to God. So God Gave us six Commandments to show us how to love our brothers and if we observe these commandments we are loving God by loving our brothers.

Here they are...

If you Love God, you will.
5-Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the LORD your God is giving you.

If you love God, you will
6-not murder.

If you love God, you will
7-not commit adultery.

If you love God, you
8-not steal.

If you Love God, you will
9-not bear false witness against your neighbor.

If you love God, you will
10- not covet your neighbor's house; or nothing that belongs to him.


I agree with you that the law of Love(Ten commandments) is as important to God then as it is now. For in God there is no shadow of changing.

I don't understand why people think that the Ten commandments are void, cause they are perfect.
If a whole country would have these then commandments they would bring heaven down here on earth. everybody would love everybody and respect everybody, and most of all everybody would love God the way he commanded us. and what does God say to those who keeps his commandments? He says, you truly Love me. If you love me you keep my commandments..


Please do read the passages the show you clearly that Jesus and Paul went to the synagogues on the Sabbath(seventh day). I would love to see your comments on them.....


I love this passage from James.
To those who think the apostle Paul said that the Sabbath is no longer binding....


James 4:12 There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy.


God bless us all

_________________
Ron Halverson

Hi there brother.


Quote: "Paul's point here is that until a man receives the gospel of Christ he will remain captive".

Romans 7:25 I thank God -- through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin."

Dear brother I suggest you read the passage again. To me is very clear that Paul was talking about himself, about his condition at the time. Right there and then.


He said, Through Jesus Christ our Lord! I serve these two laws....

So, your claim that Paul's point to someone that hasn't received the gospel of Christ, to me it is not Correct. Paul is talking about two laws the he serves. He clearly says that he is under these two laws.

My question to you is, what is the Law of God that Paul says he serves? To me he clearly says that there is a law of God and he serves it.. Or am I wrong?


Quote:

1) "This is a straw man, the law itself is not a curse, it does however proclaim a curse on all who would seek to live by it and fail(Gal 3:10).


My Comment:

Paul is talking to those who thought that by being under the law (Ten Commandments and ceremonial law) they would be justified. and Paul is very clear when he said that if we could be justified by our works, we would have reason to boast. So, to level the field, not flesh shall be justified by their own works, but by faith in the Son of God. But as I said before once Jesus Died for us, the sacrificial laws and ceremonies were fulfilled, therefore are no longer binding to us, if we have Jesus as our heavenly priest, the perfect sacrifice, why would we want to be under the ceremonial law like some of them wanted to be and preach to the new converts. This is the new covenant that Jesus talks about, he has offered the perfect sacrifice for us and through his blood and body our sins are forgiven. But the perfect Law of God is the only guidence that we have to reveal our sins.


The problem here is that everytime the word law is mentioned we all assume that it if refering to the Ten Commandments. and it is not.



Quote: Also, it may be helpful to consider all the purpose of the Law. The Law has several purposes and they are brought out in different places.

First it is a revelation of the Holiness of God and the righteous standard for communion with Him. Of course we know that it is not a means of salvation, Isreal had already been redeemed from Egypt, so it was not given in order to redeem them.


My comment: You got this one spot on.


When I talk about the Law, I want you to understand that I am refering to the Ten Commandment. The one on tablets of stones. Not the book of the Law containing the ordinances.

You got this one spot on.


Quote: Second, it was meant as a rule of life for the Old Testament believer.


My comment:

It is a set of rules for all believers, Paul said that God is the same God to the Jew and Gentiles.

Romans 3:29-31 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.


Quote: Third it was to keep Israel seperate from the world.

My Comment:

It is to keep all believers in Jesus Christ from the World, to separate us, to show the world how we relate to our God and how we relate to our brothers...



Quote: Fourth it was to provide set times for individual and corporate worship.


My Comment:

It still sets apart a day in which we have to keep holy and in that day we do have to have fellowship with likeminded believers.



Quote: The fifth purpose was to reveal sin as pointed out in three places in Romans (3:19-20 ; 5:20; 7:7)



My comment: it still reveals our sins, Just like Paul says, with my mind I serve the law of God but with my flesh I serve the law of sin. with my mind I wanto to sanctify God but with the desires of my flesh I sin against the Holy One. but we have a faithful priest in heaven, and if we confess our sins he will forgive them, and will remember them no more.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?
Romans 6:2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?





Quote: Sixth, the law actually is to make a person sin more (Romans 4:15 ; 5:20).
Paul explains this in Romans 7 and 1 Corinthians 15:16 where he wrote the power of sin is the law.




My comment:

You got this one totally wrong.

Let see the bible texts that you mentioned.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet."

How is the Law making you sin more? The law does not make you do anything. it shows you what is right and what is wrong, but it is your choice to go against it, therefore causing you to sin. How can the law possibly make you sin? but it does reveal sin to you. and that is exactly what Paul is saying here. he would not have known that to covet was a sin except through the law. Is the law making Paul covet? not at all. if he is, that is his choice therefore his sin.



1 Corinthians 15:16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen.



My comment: You must have written the wrong verse cause it does not fit the context that we are talking here. we have established that only by faith we are justified. Here Paul is talking about faith that Jesus died and raised up again. And he goes on saying that if Jesus did not raise then our faith in him is in vain, and if we believe that we are justified through his blood them, yes we are still in are sins. We are talking about the law.......


Quote: Where there is no law there is no transgression. He didn't mean there was no sin before the law, just that it gave the sin nature a base of operation.


My Comment: I disagree with this nature of operation. To me the law establishes that there is sin, and We know that God hates sin. So Through the law we can learn what what sort of life God wants us to live, but if we go against his commandments, by our decision, then we have sinned.


Proverbs 6:16-35 These six things the LORD hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him: 17 A proud look, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that are swift in running to evil, 19 A false witness who speaks lies, And one who sows discord among brethren. 20 My son, keep your father's command, And do not forsake the law of your mother. 21 Bind them continually upon your heart; Tie them around your neck. 22 When you roam, they will lead you; When you sleep, they will keep you; And when you awake, they will speak with you. 23 For the commandment is a lamp, And the law a light; Reproofs of instruction are the way of life.

If God hadn't given us his Holy Law, we would not know that he hated these things.

Look what is said about sinners.

John 9:31 "Now we know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does His will, He hears him.



1 John 5:1-4 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world -- our faith.



Quote: "Seventh, to lead us to faith in Christ.(Gal 3:24)."


My comment: absolutely spot on. but not only to lead us but to keep us in his faith.

Look what John says:


1 John 5:1-4 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world -- our faith.





My questions to you.

What is this law that paul is talking about in romans 3:31?

You said that you live by the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus which has set you free. what are these laws?

Where can I find them in the bible? HOw many laws are there?
does these law make you aware that you have sinned and that you need to confess and repent?

Jesus is very clear when he said that the word he said were not his, bot from the one who sent me. So I believe that when he says if you love me, you will keep my commangments, he was refering to God's commandments, or am I wrong? I do not think that God has a set of Laws and Jesus has another. for they are One, Father, Son and Holy spirit.


Please, I would like you to answer these questions individually if you have the time. I would like to know what are your views.

Are you saying that you live your life without any law?

How do you know that you have sinned and that you need to repent and confess your sins?

f you don't have the law to reveal your sin, how is sin revealed to you?


God bless us all...

dear fromtheold,

brother, while you differenciate between sabbath and sabbaths as you write it, the bible does not make such a difference. the same hebrew word is used for the singular and the plural of sabbaths. the same can be said of the greek as well. this is what paul talked about in colossians 2 :16,17. please read that passage. feasts = yearly sabbaths
new moons = monthly sabbaths
sabbath days = weekly sabbaths
don't take my word for it, please look it up for yourself.

I don't have time to respond to all of this but I would like to address the following...

_________________
Ron Halverson

dear jayme,

brother, was Jesus under the law in his earthly life?? galatians tells us he was. he came to fulfill the law so that he might redeem us from the law, so that we might live by His Spirit and not the law.

do you realize that many people can keep the law of the 10 commandments and yet be an idolator and adulteror and murderer in their heart. that is the problem with trying to live by the law. it measures your outward acts, but does nothing about the heart. then Jesus comes and begins to show us the spirit of the manner. He was further revealing God's character and further explaining the heart of the issue.

i understand that i am not to be juged by any kepping of a certain food or drink or any certain days of rest, but by holiness and righteousness to God.

all the other 9 commandments were re-emphasized many times over in the NT, but obeying a weekly sabbath never once is commanded. in fact a few verses (like colossians 2) show us that we are not under that anymore.

why did Jesus obey the sabbath?? because He was under the law. because he came to fulfill the law.

why did paul go and preach on the sabbath?? to testify of Christ. he did try to persuade the jews that Jesus was the Christ. in one of your posts back to me on this question, even one of your verses say that he talked to them to persuade them of Christ. jayme, if you were paul and you wanted to preach and testify about Jesus, what day would you pick?? a random day or a day where you knew people were gathered meeting and reading the OT?? i would pick the sabbath as well so i could talk and preach and reason with them about Jesus.

another question brother. how many times did the Risen Christ appear to others or His didciples on the sabbath?? now how many times did He appear to them on the first day?? almost all if not all the times that we know the days the risen Christ appeared to His disciples and others, it was on the first day not the sabbath. does this mean that sunday is the sabbath? no. but it simply shows that Jesus for some reason chose to continue to reveal Himself on the first day. such is the reason why the apostolic church with people like irenious and justin martyr write that the believers meet on the first day.

but you will go back to isaiah 56 or exodus and say that we are obligated to keep a day of rest and i will differ. so i will agree to disagree and tell you that i love you as my brother in the Lord and that i am glad to have met you talking about this issue. may you worship God in spirit and in truth..

phil

Dear brother Inthelight.

I have asked you some questions, but you have not answeared them yet. I would love to see your comments on them?

Here they are again, for the third time.....


My questions to you.

What is this law that paul is talking about in romans 3:31?

You said that you live by the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus which has set you free. what are these laws?

Where can I find them in the bible? How many laws are there?
does these laws make you aware that you have sinned and that you need to confess and repent?

Jesus is very clear when he said that the word he said were not his, but from the one who sent him. So I believe that when he says if you love me, you will keep my commandments, he was refering to God's commandments, or am I wrong? does God has a set of Laws and Jesus has another? for they are One, Father, Son and Holy spirit.


Please, I would like you to answer these questions individually if you have the time. I would like to know what are your views.



How do you know that you have sinned and that you need to repent and confess your sins?

f you don't have the law to reveal your sin, how is sin revealed to you?


God Bless....

Dear Brother LoveHim.

Once more thank you for your message.

It is pretty clear to me that no matter how many times we mention the fact that there must be two different Laws. Almost everybody here doesn't seem to recognise it. Others recognise that there are two laws but they believe that the bible makes no distinction between them.


However, to me the Bible does make that distinction very clearly.

What do we call the Law of God?

The Ten Commandments.


But we also have the law moses gave Israel in the book of Law. It is very clear to me. Two laws.


Here the apostle Paul says,

Romans 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.


But in here.


Ephesians 2:15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace.


It is logically impossible for the Apostle Paul to say in one place that the law is Good, Just and Holy and in other places to say that it was a curse. and it was abolished. I just doesn't make any sense.


Here he clearly Tells us what law or part of the law that was abolished, abolished the Law of commandments contained in ordinances...

Look what Paul says here...

Hebrews 9:9-10 It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience -- 10 concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation.


Now check this out...

Colossians 2:16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths.


See the similarity... All ceremonials.

The Sabbaths that he mentions here has to be ceremonial sabbaths, for him to mention the weekly sabbath here would not make sense, it would be out of context. The weekly Sabbath is a Commandment, not a ceremony (The Sabbaths of the feasts of the Lord).



He repeats here.. Food, Drinks, and ceremonies imposed on them Until the Time of reformation.

What is this time of reformation he is talking about?


Here is another text that makes distinction between them...



Luke 1:5-6 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah. His wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.



Now the Law of ordinances, one can say it was against us. Can you imagine all the killings of the animals for sacrifice as an atonement for the sins of the people. and All the ceremonies that they had to obeserve, that was hard work and very bloody as well. I most definetely agree with Paul on that, and I thank God that he Sent his son to not only to put a stop on all that ceremonies. Ceremonies that were only shadows of things the were to come. Jesus gave Us a much better covenant. Before the priest was human and also sinned and had to offer sacrifices for his own sins,but Now I do not have to go to anyone But the Holy and perfect son of God to confess my sins And through his blood My sins are forgiven.

Hebrews 9:12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.


I ask you, Jesus came to redeem us from...

the law that is holy, and from the commandment that is holy and just and good?


Look how the word redeem is used in this text..


Titus 2:12-14 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.


Just one more thing, My bible says:



Galatians 4:5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.


I emphasize the fact that Paul said, redeem those who were under the Law.


He does not say: to redeem those from the law. What translation are you using that says """"from the law"...?????


My next question to you is, what does """under the Law"""""mean?


Let's see what the word under mean...


Under=


1 In a lower position or place than: a rug under a chair.
2 To or into a lower position or place than: rolled the ball under the couch.
3 Beneath the surface of: under the ground; swam under water.
4 Beneath the assumed surface or guise of: traveled under a false name.
5 Less than; smaller than: The jar's capacity is under three quarts.
6 Less than the required amount or degree of: under voting age.
7 Inferior to in status or rank: nine officers under me at headquarters.


8 Subject to the authority, rule, or control of: under a dictatorship.
9 Subject to the supervision, instruction, or influence of: under parental guidance.
10 Undergoing or receiving the effects of: under constant care.
11 Subject to the restraint or obligation of: under contract.




12 Within the group or classification of: listed under biology.
13 In the process of: under discussion.
14 In view of; because of: under these conditions.
15 With the authorization of: under the monarch's seal.
16 Sowed or planted with: an acre under oats.
17 Nautical Powered or propelled by: under sail; under steam.


Please pay attention 8/9/10/11.


How about we substitute the definition of ""under"" in that text.



Galatians 4:4-5 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were Subject to the authority, rule, or control of the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.



Again

Galatians 4:4-5 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were Subject to the supervision, instruction, or influence of the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

Again.



Galatians 4:4-5 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were Undergoing or receiving the effects of the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.


Galatians 4:4-5 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were Subject to the restraint or obligation of the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

It is pretty clear to me here that the text tells me exactly the opposite that you are claiming...


Please do read this verse again look up the words, because I have dozens of bible translations and I did not find anywhere that says Jesus came to redeem us """""from"""" the Law. Please do not add words that should not be there........



God bless us all