| Poster | Thread | JaySaved
Member
Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1132
Missouri
| | Re: | | Quote:
God does not hate sinners
I can provide an example of an instance in which God did hate a sinner.
It says in Hebrews 12:16 that Esau was "sexually immoral and unholy"
God says in Malachi 1:3, "Esau I have hated..."
Hated is the Hebrew word:
Sane'
Definition
1. to hate, be hateful
1. (Qal) to hate
1. of man
2. of God
3. hater, one hating, enemy (participle) (subst)
2. (Niphal) to be hated
3. (Piel) hater (participle)
1. of persons, nations, God, wisdom
Also in Romans 9:13, "As it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
Hated in this verse is the Greek word Miseo
Definition
1. to hate, pursue with hatred, detest
2. to be hated, detested
Before anyone replies back and says that 'Hated' in this sense doesn't really mean hated, let me provide this same word Miseo in Matthew 5:44, "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"
If God can hate Esau then is it not possible that God can hate sinners?
|
|  2007/2/12 16:25 | Profile | JaySaved
Member
Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1132
Missouri
| | Re: | | Quote:
They were saying that we are not to hate the sin but love the sinner, but to hate the sinner as well.
I disagree with this as well. Nowhere in Scripture are we told to hate anyone. |
| | 2007/2/12 16:26 | Profile |
| | Re: God Hates sinners | | Provost,
this radio offering should illuminate to you one fact , that the pharisees never really went bye bye, they're still among us.
|
| | 2007/2/12 16:54 | | PreachParsly
Member
Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas
| | Re: | | Quote:
RobertW wrote:
Hi Preach,
Quote:
It usually should be explained rather than just proclaimed.
It might be quite edifying to give us some thoughts on how this plays out. I'm sure you have thought this through and would enjoy hearing how you would present Psalm 5:5 and 11:5? Would it be wise to use these passages in soul winning?
I'm quite sure that I can't do an adequate job but I'll put some thoughts out.
Here are a few things that we do know and cant ignore.
1)God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked. It is not pleasing whatsoever that the wicked are wicked, nor is it pleasing that they are dying.
2)While we were sinners God gave His son and the Son obeyed even unto death. We have to realize that He came to save sinners, not to condemn them.
3)God is also not slack concerning his promises. He isnt willing that any should perish.
The list could go on as Im sure most of you could add to it. This facet of God probably doesnt need much explaining.
Here are some more things that we cannot ignore.
1)God is angry with the wicked everyday. (Psalms 7:11)
2)God hates all workers of iniquity along with those that love what is opposite of Him. (Psalms 5:11, Psalms 7:11, Romans 1:32)
3)The wrath of God abides on all those who do not believe in Christ. (John 3:36)
There are some more, but that gives the idea. Below is how I put them together in my mind.
Gods whole being is in contrast to the wicked. Not merely their actions, but the person that committed the actions. I dont think you could separate a song from the singer any more than the sin from the sinner because if there were no singer there would be to song. The singer produces the song. If there wasnt the sinner to commit the sin, the sin wouldnt be committed. The enmity that was once between God and us was not with our actions, but us! This is why I dont really see God loves the sinner, but hates the sin. I think there is a truth in that, but Im not sure it really gives the full effect.
I preach on the street and deal with people that are living in utter wickedness. They love to quote things like God loves me no matter what. In their mind, it doesnt matter how bad they are their relation to God doesnt change- He still loves me.
Here is an analogy that I have used before. It isnt perfect because no everyone is a child of God, but it seems to relate the point.
Imagine a father that had a rebellious and wicked son. The father loves the son with everything that is within him. The father has time and time again been patient with the son, but the son stiffens his neck. The son committed a horrible crime. The crime demands that their be a payment or life in prison. If the payment is paid, then the son can be set free. If the payment is not paid then the son will die in prison. The father sells his greatest possessions. And in essence is in the poor house. He comes to his son and says, Son, Ive sold nearly everything that you can be set free. Shockingly the son says, What a waste! Youre a moron! I dont want it! If I cant pay it myself, I surely dont want you to! The father now is deeply hurt and even to the point of wrath. Its not that the love for his boy has changed, but the fathers response to the son is wrath. He cant believe after all that he did that his son would reject him.
I think God sees sinners in a similar fashion. It isnt that God doesnt love sinners, but is abhorred that they reject him.
If I can think of any better ways to convey what I mean over the next few days, I will post it.
_________________
Josh Parsley
|
| | 2007/2/12 16:57 | Profile | PreachParsly
Member
Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas
| | Re: | | Quote:
Would it be wise to use these passages in soul winning?
I don't see a huge problem with it as long as it is explained. God still desires them to be converted and that has to be plainly spoken.
I've often wondered that if God's love (agape) gives, than the opposite of that is selfishness or pride. God's anger isn't selfish, but many times mans anger is. This is why I wouldn't say "God hates you." People don't think of hate the way is it used to describe God. God's hate is not like man's hate. God's isn't prideful, mans almost always is.
_________________
Josh Parsley
|
| | 2007/2/12 17:02 | Profile | roaringlamb
Member
Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California
| | Re: | | Quote:
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
When Paul wrote this, he was not speaking to unsaved people, but rather saints. We cannot use this as a verse to say that God loves unrepentant sinners as it is not addressed to unrepentant sinners.
God loves Christ for He is the only Perfect One. Therefore all in Christ God loves, all outside of Christ, God grants mercy. Mercy should never be taken for God's approval or affection, but rather this goodness should lead to repentance. How so?
As one sees that he has been provided breath and a heartbeat, and food, use of limbs, sight etc. this goodness, or mercy should humble men. Especially whne they are made to see their grievous, animosity towards the very One who gave him these things.
But these things are not tokens to ease the conscience of the unrepentant as our own testimonies will bear witness to, that when we had these things our consciences still cried out, "guilty, guilty" despite all we did to quash that voice. Until the grace of God showed us Christ and His merit as Saviour and Lord, and we were placed into Him.
Therefore we should warn the unrepentant of the wrath to come not from a loving grandfatherly god, but rather the very God you are an enemy of, and is an enmy of yours yet cares enough for you to grant life.
_________________
patrick heaviside
|
| | 2007/2/12 17:08 | Profile | GaryE
Member
Joined: 2005/4/26
Posts: 376
Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania
| | Re: | |
Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
_________________
Gary Eckenroth
|
| | 2007/2/12 17:58 | Profile |
| | Re: | | These preachers are a menance to the Kingdom of God. God loves sinners, soooooooooo much that He gave Jesus the Christ to lay down His life blood for us all.
It breaks my heart to hear of such preachers bruising others like that.
Isaiah 42:3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
|
| | 2007/2/12 18:01 | | roaringlamb
Member
Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California
| | Re: | | Quote:
Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
I think we should pay attention to the "we" and "us". Also notice the past tense of "we were sinners".
Paul is using this to show the glory of what it was to be justified. The whole book to this point has been to establish the wickedness of the Gentiles, and the Jews alike, and that all were under the wrath of God. But God through faith has justified sinners.
Remember also this was written to the Church at Rome before Paul had visited them. This is why he goes into such detail about the key doctrines of depravity, righteousness, faith, etc.
_________________
patrick heaviside
|
| | 2007/2/12 18:11 | Profile | PaulWest
Member
Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas
| | Re: | | I don't think anyone has the right to align their ministries and theology with the God "hates' and "abhors" sinners verses if they haven't first wept in utter brokeness over them. To mention these verses with dry eyes and a unafflicted spirit not only disqualifies you, but it also brings you into a very dangerous mindset. There are certain things in the Holy Scriptures that can [i]only[/i] be properly understood through deep travail and affliction. This is one of them.
The preacher who hasn't first wept over Psalms 5 and 7 brings [i]incalculable[/i] damage to the Body of Christ when he presents them to the unsaved. And his teachings and preachings become like a lobotomizing spiritual virus infecting the minds of other dry-eyed, zealous saints.
Brother Paul
_________________
Paul Frederick West
|
| | 2007/2/12 18:21 | Profile |
|
