| Poster | Thread | Christinyou
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| | Re: | | New birth is not the Holy Spirit, new birth is the Spirit of Christ in you, which is not the Holy Spirit, but an exchange of life spirit, our old father Satan out, our new Seed of the Father born in us, which is Christ in you the Hope of Glory.
In Christ: Phillip
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Phillip
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|  2006/9/10 3:46 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
Christinyou wrote:
New birth is not the Holy Spirit, new birth is the Spirit of Christ in you, which is not the Holy Spirit, but an exchange of life spirit, our old father Satan out, our new Seed of the Father born in us, which is Christ in you the Hope of Glory.
In Christ: Phillip
Easy here, My brother.
John 20.22 doesn't agree with you. Though I know your conclusion is truth it nevertheless can not be something apart from the giving in the Holy Spirit. The indwelling is but one, the second one, of the manifestations Jesus spoke of while in His flesh.
"And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost": John 20:22 (KJV)
Blessings,
Orm
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| | 2006/9/10 5:21 | | linda7
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Joined: 2006/4/23
Posts: 101
West Sussex, England
| | Re: | | Ormly wrote Quote:
My Bro. Been,Our difference is a fundamental one. It lies with my believing the new birth is something apart from initial salvation. I realize I won't have many friends with this view but nevertheless, that's my position.
Does, then, it follow that a person initially saved will at some time afterwards be born again?
Respectfully,
Linda
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Linda
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| | 2006/9/10 15:44 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
linda7 wrote:
Ormly wroteQuote:
My Bro. Been,Our difference is a fundamental one. It lies with my believing the new birth is something apart from initial salvation. I realize I won't have many friends with this view but nevertheless, that's my position.
Does, then, it follow that a person initially saved will at some time afterwards be born again?
Respectfully,
Linda
Jesus bypassed Nicodemus' question concerning eternal life by stating "no one can enter or even see the Kingdom unless he is born again."
The Kingdom is a person. The Kingdom is Jesus Christ. Now all one has to do is, connect the dots.
:-Drm |
| | 2006/9/10 16:49 | | Christinyou
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| | Re: | | What does it take for a child to be born? It takes a receiving embryo and a Father's Seed. Are we not born again of Incorruptable Seed.
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Who give the Seed, which is Christ? Who is the Word of God? Jesus Christ is the Word. Who is our life? "It is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me". How do we live this new live? "The life we not live we live by the faith of the Son of God"
All could receive the Holy Spirit as He came upon them before Pentecost. After Pentecost "He will be in you". Who sent the Holy Spirit to all before the Cross. Who sent the Holy Spirit to be in you by the Prayer of Christ to the Father. Jhn 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Christ is the New Birth, the Holy Spirit is the One that Seals us into Christ and then The Holy Spirit becomes our Teacher of this Christ that is not in us. The Holy Spirit is in Charge of renewing our soul mind to the Mind of Christ that the born again possess.
In Christ: Phillip
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Phillip
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| | 2006/9/10 17:52 | Profile | linda7
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| | Re: | | Ormly wrote Quote:
new birth is something apart from initial salvation.
In Paul's case, for instance, on the Damascus road, would this be so? Would you say there was an interval between initial salvation and new birth?
Linda
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Linda
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| | 2006/9/10 18:11 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
linda7 wrote:
Ormly wrote Quote:
new birth is something apart from initial salvation.
In Paul's case, for instance, on the Damascus road, would this be so? Would you say there was an interval between initial salvation and new birth?
Linda
When I said, one must be born again to see Jesus; to enter the kingdom, probably wouldn't negate what happenned to Saul-Paul. However, I was alluding to the revelation of Jesus Christ and all that He set forth to be accomplshed that only the re-born could see and paricipate. Was Saul-Paul immediately indwelt at the time he saw the Light of the Lord? I would conclude prima-facie, no, not until his association with Ananias. But, knowing that God's timing can be as He wishes, that is conjecture on my part.
I did find the analogy of the Kingdom being a person and how John 3.3,5 relates very helpful especially when the death bed/foxhole salvation experience is so often questioned.
Food for thought, eh?
:-D |
| | 2006/9/10 19:30 | | linda7
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Posts: 101
West Sussex, England
| | Re: How Does One Become Born Again? | | Ormly wrote Quote:
new birth is something apart from initial salvation.
Do you mind if we go over this again? So, in regards to the distinction made here, what do you believe takes place at the initial salvation and what takes place at the new birth? (Setting aside the death bed situation, if that is a correct thing to do).
Linda
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Linda
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| | 2006/9/10 20:53 | Profile | Christinyou
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| | Re: | | Clarify please what initial salvation is, and birthing.
If we cannot see the things of the Kingdom of God unless we are born again. What then is initial salvation? Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Is not salvation a implementation from the Kingdom of God. Salvation is an exchange of nature. From Satan in you to Christ in you. From Satan nature unto death, to Christ nature birthed in you unto life eternal with God our new Father. Colossians 1:27-28 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Perfection is Christ. Christ born again in the believer is perfect. This is initial salvation and the birthing unto eternal life. Working out this salvation comes by the Holy Spirit renewing our old man mind to the new creature mind of Christ.
1Cr 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Therefore: Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
This is working out our salvation with fear and trembling.
I don't know how you can separate the new birth and initial salvation. One must accompany the other or the Temple of the Holy Spirit cannot be quickened and the Spirit cannot be the Spirit and Mind of Christ.
Is this not Christ in you the hope of our salvation making them be to power and pleasure of Gods will, not ours in trying to make the Holy Spirit Christ. Ephesians 1:17-19 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness of His power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of His mighty power,
In Christ: Phillip
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| | 2006/9/11 4:15 | Profile | linda7
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Posts: 101
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| | Re: How does one become Born Again? | | Quote:
by Christinyou on 2006/9/11 4:15:43
Clarify please what initial salvation is and birthing.
This distinction came from a previous posting of Ormly, but it is yet to be clarified.
In order to shed some light on my own experience I began to question it. I came across a handbook in my own possession, on salvation, by Harold M Freligh with a forward by A W Tozer, called "Newborn".
The different stages are set out and I will attempt to put it simply (though the whole thing is quite a lovely explanation of salvation and was written for teaching on the subject, in order to clarify the different stages of salvation).
He calls the born again experience that and also regeneration.
The definition of regeneration: "is that supernatural and instantaneous change wrought by the Holy Spirit in the nature of the individual who receives the Lord Jesus Christ".
All the stages of salvation are set out. Here I mention only what he wrote on regeneration. After conversion comes regeneration. Conversion being a spiritual change involving one mentally and morally, affecting the will. A heart conviction that changes one's whole outlook and course of action.
There are human and divine sides in regeneration of the individual. It is a divine act. A hindrance to regeneration is pride, man must come as a little child. Regeneration comes through believing God's written word, resting on it and Jesus himself. This must come from the heart.
Regeneration comes through receiving Jesus Christ, which involves the will. An act of faith.
On the divine side of regeneration it is of God that one is born again (john 1:13). Birth by the Spirit (John 3:6). It is the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost (Tit 3:5).
Christ enters the opened door of the heart and makes His abode there.
God uses His Word in the work of regeneration He begat us with the word of truth (James 1:18).
Also regeneration is a mystery. "The wind bloweth where it listeth....". It is difficult to explain the operation, but we can experience it.
Evidence of regeneration:
The believer escapes corruption that is in the world, because of new nature within; overcomes the world (1 John 5:4); is delivered from sin (as a practice, not a single act). A regenerated being loves God, the centre of interest goes from self to God (Rom 5:5). Love of the bretheren follows (1 John 4:20)and he keeps His commanments.
He states that the means of transformation is by keeping our eyes upon Christ Jesus. Regeneration is divine.
Personally I find this quite helpful in explaining my own journey, I hope it does the same for others.
Linda
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| | 2006/9/11 6:54 | Profile |
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