Shane Idleman and his wife Morgan engage in a candid Q&A session about marriage, sharing their personal experiences and insights on how to navigate challenges while keeping Christ at the center of their relationship. They address various topics, including communication, intimacy, and the importance of mutual respect and love, emphasizing that a healthy marriage requires effort, understanding, and reliance on God. They also discuss the significance of setting boundaries and being transparent with each other to prevent misunderstandings and maintain a strong bond. Their journey, marked by struggles and growth, serves as a testament to the power of faith in overcoming marital difficulties.

What we wanted to do is do something we haven't done before, and that is talk about marriage, Q&A, be transparent, at the same time honest, and our goal and our hope is to help marriages out there, because we are no different than any other marriage out there. But we do try to put Christ at the center. And so we've got the top 21 questions. We're going to try to get through them quickly, but we don't want to rush. So I actually might, we might have to do part two in the future, or we might answer them on a podcast, audio, we can just, if we don't get to all of them, we want to try to get to all of them. So we need to start. So with that said, I'm going to have my beautiful wife Morgan come up. And when, when God called us, He didn't just call me, He calls the team. And you see what goes on in the front runner, or the front burner, sorry, the front burner, not what goes on in the back burner of this. And she's just been a tremendous blessing. If God calls a man, He has to call the woman to the same type of responsibility in helping to lead a church. And so I'm just excited that we can open up a little bit. It's our 17 year anniversary, was last weekend. And that went by quick. And there are people here have been married longer, they do things better. And I wish that they would come up and do Q&A at some point. But also, Branton Tiffany, your anniversary is today, right? What a way to spend it. So let's sit down. What do you think? I'm going to have, we're going to go back and forth on the questions. And if you have questions, you can jot them down. And if we do a part two, or we answer the audio, we'll try to get to those as well. So we don't want to leave anyone out. But let me just start get right to it for Morgan. First question, being protective or guarding your relationship with Shane should be a normal emotion or feeling but how do you handle or rein in not becoming overcome with jealousy when Shane has so many people tugging at him and pulling him in different directions all the time? No holding back on that one. Hi, Shaley. For that, I think there's many situations in all of our lives where we look at someone else's life and say, I could never do that. That would just be way too much. And that's true until you have to do it. And that's when I think God's grace kicks in. So in the past before we ever started Westside, I would have said there's no way that that's just no. And then God called us to start Westside and the grace was sufficient at the time it needed to be. I can honestly say I could probably count on both hands in the last nine years, the times that I've been frustrated where he was maybe doing something else than what I thought he should have been doing with us. Like I don't, in other words, I don't feel like he's married to the church like I know some pastors' wives do. But I think that in part is due to setting up boundaries from the get-go. So he is busy and there are a lot of people needing his time. So I don't know, maybe God just gave me the grace. I'm a little independent too, so I don't feel like I need... That helps. You know, I mean, I like him around, don't get me wrong. I can chime in a bit too because I thank God he called me at 40 and not 24. Because in my 20s is when I really learned about putting first things first and prioritizing. And I was able to exercise that, planting the church. Because if your family's not healthy, the marriage isn't healthy, it's going to affect the ministry, it's going to affect the church. So that has to be the priority as far as the health of the marriage and health of the relationship. And she's flexible though, like she said, a lot of grace. I've had to leave with shorts on and flip-flops and go to the hospital or leave dinner or leave an event, basketball or baseball or different things, not basketball, baseball, gymnastics. So there's flexibility there, but I think you hit the nail on the head. But that's probably one of those times I could count. I should sit closer, we seem distant. It's probably when it's having to do with the kids more. So it's kind of like, oh, I can handle if it's me, but if it starts involving the kids and I feel like they're in any way being neglected, I think that's when it's more difficult. I'd say the biggest, the hardest thing in that point would be the phone. Because the phone just goes off like, what, 150, 200 text emails a day. Was I supposed to say that? Right in there somewhere. A lot. Yeah. We're trying to figure out how to utilize the phone better. But no, yeah, that's a tough one right now. I just don't want you to feel guilty if you text me. Not at all. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's actually, what I need to do is just put it down more in the garage or a spare room or something and have time with the kids and then go back to work time and do it that way. And also our hope is in all of this is to show you how we've relied on Jesus and point you to that foundation. And we'll get to some questions here that might even shed more light on that, but this one's for me. There has to be disagreements within the marriage. So Shane, how do you handle a situation when Morgan does not back down or feel she is right, but you know, you guys didn't mess around. Boy, I was hoping for easy ones. So how do you handle a situation when Morgan does not back down and feels that she is right, but you know, you are right. Do you give in? Does that ever happen? Do you give in? Do you walk away? Do you talk till she agrees with you? Do you listen to Morgan's side or point? How much time do we have? Well, looking at this, I would have to say this is probably a major issue where, you know, you know, you're, you know, there's something major. And I can think of a few where just as a husband, you know, when I want to go into a lot of detail, but we had, we were considering having someone live with us to help out this person. And I just felt really strongly and she didn't agree. And we, we collided for a little while on that one, but we talked it through, worked it out. So do I listen to Morgan's side or get her point? Yes. Try to, try to hear both sides. So we don't have, I don't know if we have a lot of things that would fit in this category. She feels she's right. I'm feeling I'm right. You know, we talk through things and we say, okay, what's your point of view? Where are you trying to come from? Because once you talk a little bit more, you understand that maybe you didn't see it the way they, they saw it and you're, you're trying to relate a little bit better. So it depends on what the issue is. If, if I know I'm like in this case, I felt that for the safety of our family, you know, I wasn't, I just couldn't back down. I think I told her that it's, I can't, I'm not, I'm not wiggling on this. There's no wiggle room on this one. But I think listening to them being compassionate and this doesn't happen too often. I think this was eight years ago when that happened. Big, big issues don't happen too often. The smaller ones, I feel like you do listen and then, you know, kind of, if it's not a hill to die on for him, he'll kind of default if he feels like it's going to be more peaceful maybe or something. Yeah. Well, what I'll give you one thing that was kind of, um, I mean, it's one, something we work, we actually didn't argue over it a little bit, but I have a, as the man wanting to, I want to have a goal to pay off her house in 10 years and that's not going to work unless, you know, we budget certain things and certain money goes to it. Uh, and she's more on wanting it now for the kids stuff. And Hey, what's a 30 year loan? You know? So I have this plan of paying it off and that way financially more stable. And if something would happen to me, the family set and they're stable. So I kind of explained, I broke down, you know, 125,000 in interest. You're saving. We just have a track home in Palmdale. You look at the interest and how much, you know, we can make an attempt at this. We can be debt free from our home in 10 years and I'll be turning 60. I can't believe I'm saying that. 59, 59 is my goal. So I hope, I wish we could take a lot more time, but, um, do you give in sometimes? Do you walk away? Usually, you know, I'll, I'll say, you know, I'm just going to go on a drive and maybe run up to the church, listen to some worship music and just get your, get your mind clear. Cause you don't want to go at it when you're, when you're angry and you're, you can feel that, that irritability rising up that we usually were pretty good about. She'll go do something, you know, a shopping at Walmart usually fixes it and I'll go on a drive in light of Ephesians in light of Ephesians 5 22 and 28. Uh, that's the passage talks about husbands, loving your wives. Uh, Shane, can you speak on loving your wife? And Morgan, can you speak on respecting? Oh no, the S word submitting to your husband. So I'll let you, I'm going to be long winded. If you want to start, this'll probably be my longest answer. So can you speak on loving your wife? Ah, you know, when I see how much Christ did for me and I think the gift of marriage and it's a daily dying to self, uh, to me, that's what it is. Loving your wife is Christ, love the church. So it's not about me, not about my day, my agenda. Uh, she'll tell you, and I'm not just saying this cause I do it, but I do a lot of the dishes or vacuum or fix meals just to help out, you know, I've had the time. Abram, you did that recently. Yeah. So it's, it's a way of loving them. So to define that, it means to me not doing what I want to do, but what does the family need now in saying that I have not mastered this area, but that's what it means for me to love my wife and, and put the needs of the family first. And, uh, and then we'll go into the next part here for you. He's so sweet. He really cooks the meals cause I can't cook very well. Some things are really good. I try. I try. Cereal. It's so bad. No, but I appreciate it. Yeah. I have other gifts. Okay. Um, well, it's funny cause you felt a lot of pressure coming into the ministry. Like I don't cook and I don't play a piano and sing. What am I supposed to do? So God just, uh, but yeah, there's so many other, many of you, the women that know her and have spent time with her, just incredible person for, for encouraging and mentoring younger women. And, and, uh, so God has gifted you very much so in areas that are far more important than, than, uh, plant-based quesadillas. All right. Submitting and respecting. Okay. So it's a big, that's a big question. Um, and a lot of women don't like, um, that word. So I'm not sure why or how we got there, but, uh, we can think, I think the women came before us, um, and kind of turned that into a bad word. And then the church fell for that lie that it's a, that is a bad word and it should not be, um, something to be rejoicing in. And before I fully, you know, kind of exhaust the answer, you should know, I'm not one of those like naturally submissive, um, quiet women. Some, some people are, and it's, it's amazing. That's just more of kind of their nature. Um, it's not necessarily mine. So when I answer this question, I don't want you to feel like it's coming from someone who this comes easy for. Um, so you should know that ahead of time, but can I set this up a little bit? No, don't do it. I know what you're going to say. Yeah, you can. When we, we both made had a, our past wasn't that great. This is so bad, but you can clarify if I'm wrong. It won't be bad, but you're, you're engaged to a guy and you became a Christian. And then I think when you're younger, like in your team, may 17, 18 years, you'd say, I don't want some guy telling me what to do. So that stuck with me. You know, I don't remember saying that, but he swears. I said it, but, and it's really not, um, well, yeah, I'll let you explain it, but it's, yeah, your personality is not a, a, a naturally, which is a good person. It's a good character trait because of that fight. I'm getting my foot out of my mouth. It's a good fight. And you know, that, that type a, but you're not typing either. It's that it's, it's just that strong personality you, you need to have in ministry. You have to have, you have to have two inch thick skin to really, uh, to be in ministry. So with that though, that strong personality comes not wanting to submit by nature. Right. So it doesn't come easily, but I don't read anywhere where it says submit if it comes easily. And so I don't feel like I get a pass just because, um, my personality might not, might be a little, you know, more loud or boisterous or whatever. Um, I don't get a pass from scripture and what scripture tells us. So, uh, there's just a lot. Um, I feel like a lot of times as women, we hear that word and we get mad and we, you know, I'm, I'm not gonna, you know, some guy telling me what to do or whatever, but it always kind of baffles me when we look at, um, you know, we can look at the beach and see, um, or the ocean and this beautiful, God's beautiful creation, or we can look at a forest of trees and oh my gosh, isn't that a beautiful thing that God made? Or we can look at our children. Oh, can you hear me? Or we look at our children and see, you know, oh, they're just so beautiful and God's creation. But then we look at this, this way that God set up marriage and we say, that part is not beautiful, but it is when we're applying it. So when you've got a man leading by, by example and by love and not, you know, with an iron fist. Yes. Cause that's important. It would be a lot harder to submit for sure to someone who is, um, not a good leader, not giving an excuse to not do your part, but I can see where it would be harder. And then of course, if this isn't even, I mean, it would take a whole nother topic to talk on abuse and different things like that coming into place. So this answer is covering, assuming that our relationship, we should clarify that. Yeah. No, I just mean in general, if you know, if there's a home where there's abuse going on and stuff, I'm not by any means saying, you know, lay down and submit woman and all that. So I think you guys understand that, but just in the context is actually is husbands love your wives and wives respect. So it's that mutual understanding of, and when it's a, when it's a good, when it's a cycle and both, both parties are doing what they're supposed to do, it's just a beautiful thing. Not always easy, but we're not promised easy, but it is a beautiful thing. And so I feel like there's so much of the blame game. We'll all submit when he loves, we'll all love when she submits. Well, no, God's word tells you to do you, they're going to do them. And if they're not, then you're praying and you're waiting. Meanwhile, you're obeying. And that's the, that's the best that we can do. Um, like my mom's has a checklist, you know, or don't compare. Right. It's one of the biggest things she sees in counseling too, is blaming the other person and comparing why did this, I make the money and see nobody's wanting to take that. You're right. The Bible puts it right back on us, regardless of how the other person is acting. Yeah. Yeah. It's not a suggestion. I've found the hard way scripture is not just a nice little idea. And for all you wondering, our first year was the hardest. Are we allowed to say like, probably not. Nevermind. I mean, it was the hardest as far as we both thought about divorce, you know, for sure. The first year, because you just, you realize how selfish you are. And, uh, it was, it was a hard first year. We, we, we, we, I mean, we thought about it, but we knew we couldn't because of the course. And then marriage is often a tool, like no other tool that God will use to really humble you and to break you. And I remember I shared this with some of you as many years ago now, that I, she, she left her journal open and it talked about me being a controlling man with finances and not letting the kids do a lot. And I was like, I left there mad, but I was broken. Like, what are you talking about? And as a man, seeing my dad go through the recession with, with construction, losing everything almost. And, and I I've, I've been more of that penny pincher, you know, so no, they're not going to do this. No, we can't do this. No, we can't, you know, because you're, you're living on a budget where, but it started to hinder people's dreams and what they wanted to do. And so I had to learn from that, like, okay, well, let's let them do what they want to do in a budget, you know, and, and be more humble about that. And so that was my whole point, not to take away from this point, but is to let marriage humble you and conform you and shape you and break off those hard areas, uh, of pride and self-centeredness. And that's when we're confronted with those things, we need to change those things. Yeah, for sure. Um, another point too, I just, for the women, um, if that is more of a struggle and it's, you know, you, you say the word submission or respect, and you just, you just hear it on the face, you hear it and you see it on the faces. And I just think, what if our, the man by our side was going, Oh, I have to love my wife. What a horrible plot in life to have to love her. But that's what they hear when we're saying, Oh, I have to respect you. And it's the biggest thing for a man. And I think that's why God put it in here. Men love your wives, wives, respect, submit your husbands, because we're not going to naturally do it. I mean, some people may be a little more prone to it in general, but by and large, it's not going to come very natural. And so he's telling us for our own good, this is what works best. A two-headed monster is a very ugly thing. There has to be someone taking the lead. And to me, I mean, don't get me wrong. There are times when I go down punching and it's, I don't want to, but I feel like I have grown at least in 17 years. Um, for me it's, yeah, for me, I don't, it's kind of like, okay, when it all falls apart and I am my fault, go on with your bad self. You make that call, you know, um, luckily he's often hearing from the Lord so I can trust his leading. So that was kind of a joke, kind of not because I do trust when it comes down to it, even when it's something that I don't particularly like with the house payment, for instance, probably not something I would choose to do at this point, but I can see the wisdom in it. And so I'm not going to kick and scream about it. And I trust him and I trust that God is leading. So I'll bow out. You know what I mean? Um, also for, I think the women almost have it. Well, I can't, that might be taken wrong. Um, I wouldn't want to be the man. I'll just say that right now. I would way rather be the woman. I don't want to have to provide for an entire family. I don't want to have to try and lead an entire family. I don't want to have to try and protect an entire family. That's like beyond what God created me to do. And so I want him to operate in his full gifting and what God has called him to do. And for him to be able to do that, I need to come underneath that. Yeah. And like there are, if there are things she doesn't agree with, she'll, she'll voice that and why she doesn't agree with it. We've, I've changed course in regard to like the kids, probably, you know, the kids with schooling or they're needing, this isn't going to work. You know, we gotta, we gotta do this. And there's probably many examples we could give on this. Um, but what about under, would this be under this question when people say, so how's it, how's it really like, how's it really like living with Shane? Yeah. Um, where did that one go? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's it like being married to Shane? And it's funny cause I do read between those lines. Um, some people I think genuinely are curious, but I usually get the sensing of two different types of people. The first one is the type of people who, um, aren't a big fan of the ministry or of Shane, um, or whatever. And so when they're asking, I see all over their face, what they're really asking is, isn't it so horrible? Don't you like never have any fun? And don't you like just get scripture beaten over your head all day and isn't just the worst thing ever? How do you live with that guy? And then there's a whole nother group of people who are like, he's so spirit filled. What's it like living with him? It must be cloudy all day or, you know, walking on clouds and, and, and there's never poopy diapers from the kids and it must be so amazing. That was a good one. And I just laugh and I'm just like, I think my answer is what's it like being married to him is very similar as what it's like being married to your spouse. There are some amazing, amazing days and there are some very hard days. It's the same. You could ask him the same question. What's it like being married to me? I'm no walk in the park either. You know what I mean? So I feel like that question could really get thrown back on anyone. Yes. He's a strong, um, leader, strong personality, um, which is amazing. And that's what I need. And then other days, less than amazing, I guess that, you know, I mean, yeah, you know, it's, it's, it's, um, so I would say it's amazing being married to him. It's not perfect and it's not always a walk in the park, but I don't, I don't think that's specific to us. I think you could all say the same thing. Yeah. And with the big confusion, I think with a lot of people is how I preach to the masses is not how I act on an individual level. I'll put on, what do you think? Repent you little sinner. Yeah. Repent you little sinner. I mean, I'll, yeah, I'll dance. I'll dance. I'll dance around with them a little bit, dance around with the kids, play with the kids. Oh yeah, the kids fall off their chair laughing. When he gets laughing and like really laughing, it's hard to stop. And then the kids like practically fall out of their chairs, laughing at him, laughing. So it's not like we just sit at home all day and to be doing whatever people think. To be honest with you, this could be an encouragement. Um, I'm, I'm not doing really good in this area with, with devotional time and teaching my kids scriptures right now, to be honest with you, it's, it's something I need to work on. We tried it. I think the devil comes against it. Every chance he gets, you can have, Hey, tonight family at dinner, we're going to talk about Disneyland. Oh, there'd be no problems. But as soon as you want to open up the Bible, all hell seems to break loose. So, and I'm, I'm kind of careful that I maybe I could push, not push, but, but invest scriptures into their life more. But I don't want to come across as that, you know, that angry father at home. I don't, I've never said you have to submit. I've never said you have to respect me. I never quoted Ephesians five. I don't quote verses to use them at the kids. Uh, but that would be my downside is I probably could be better in this area of, because I'm so exhausted when work's over. And sometimes I feel like my time with the kids is like, it should be the, when I have the highest amount of energy, when I spend time with the Lord in the morning. Um, so, uh, yeah, who, who we are here is who we are at home. Uh, we don't try to put on different masks and different things. Um, but I don't, how I preach and how hard at preaching, that's really a calling. That's what God, God gifted me in that area. He, he anointed me to have that type of ministry, like John the Baptist that, that calling the nation back. I eat, breathe that I have books on the side of her bed, piles of them. And I'm just, I just love revival. I love God awakening these people. Cause that's my heartbeat. But when I'm at home, you know, it's, it's riding bikes or playing or doing things with the kids. It's not, it's not, I don't, I don't preach to them at all. But I think he's harder on himself. Um, even though we mean we might not sit down as often as we can and like full on devotion. Um, but it's constantly talked about throughout, throughout our home. When you're lying down, when you're wising up, uh, they, they wake up and they catch dad, um, on his knees, you know, 4 a.m. If someone wakes up to go to the bathroom or, um, they catch us talking about, um, a scripture and different things. So I don't think it's, yeah, I just feel like I wish I could do more. Yeah. If you ever did a devotion with little kids, you probably feel the same way. It's, it's hard. Um, so that would be one thing you could pray for us, what that looks like, you know, spend more time, but they do get it's, it's, um, character qualities, uh, and, and teaching them. I mean, I walked out of Dick's a month and a half ago with something in my hand and Shane said, Oh dad, you didn't pay for that. I'm like, Oh, that's right. I was, my mind wasn't even on getting anything. It's like, Oh, that's a good example. Let's go back. Or if they give me too much money back, or if we stop and talk to someone and buy them food. So there's learning throughout the whole week that we're investing in them. Uh, one of our daughters goes to the hospital homes and she comes to the morning worship. It's she's up at four 30 in the morning on Sunday. And she comes here, praise God for now. I know that, you know, that could change as she gets older, but so we do see them growing, right? Okay. I won't say that either. You're right. We shouldn't, we shouldn't talk like that. All right. Um, I think we kind of cover this one. What do you do when you find out you're wrong about something? How easy is it for you to apologize and admit, correct the wrong you've done to others? And that's only question four. So we probably have to go pretty quick. Okay. Um, I think it's easier to say you're sorry when you realize, um, that the offense is against the Lord. So yes. Um, maybe sometimes I've done something I've wronged him. And if I realize that it's wrong, it's not always easy to, you know, eat that humble pie and go and apologize. But if I try and fight it and then I'm out of God's will, then it's easier for me to say, okay, I, I, I prefer to be right with the Lord and, you know, take on a little bit of humility, um, to apologize than to, to kind of stay out of, right. Yeah. And I'm on the same boat. I would say how easy is it for you to apologize and admit you're wrong to the other? I think, I think we're both, both pretty good at that. You know, saying, Hey, I missed this. I wasn't, I didn't understand. And you want to jump on that quickly. How do you keep that balance in your family to prioritize Christ in Christian holidays? Um, it was probably could have been a question we waited on because there's other priority ones. Let me, let me try to come back to that one. Morgan, how do you deal with situations that, that I don't understand as a man, like if you're pregnant, maybe when I saw that question, I was hoping for more of maybe a, an example. Um, the only thing I could think of that came to mind was like pregnancy, postpartum depression, which I struggled with, um, more so with one of the other four. Um, and that verse, you know, for men dwell with your wives with understanding. I think it's a good thing for you to seek, to understand your wife, to try and hear her the heart and hear where she's coming from. Um, but there are some things that, I mean, there was a time, um, I think in this last pregnancy that I like had to have, um, I don't even remember, let's just say a cheeseburger, even though it wasn't because I couldn't do meat this time on this one. Um, but it was like, no, I have to have it. I have to have it now. And he's like, well, just eat something else. You know, it's fine. Like it's 11 o'clock at night. I'm like, I have to have it now. You know, you don't understand. It's a real thing. Or like nesting, um, before the baby was, was born and I was nesting and I'm like, you don't get it. I cannot not organize these things. I can't not do it. You know, so just, just trying, I guess, to, um, help him understand and knowing at the same time, really, Jesus is the only one who's going to fully ever really get me. Um, yeah. If you ask that question and you had a more specific thing in mind, ask me later. And there's some single questions here too, for singles. So we're going to maybe come back to those in a minute. Um, what does being a spiritual leader look like to me? I think we covered some of that earlier about leading by example, doing what you don't feel like doing, admitting you're wrong, showing character in your home. Can I give an example real quick, like a practical example? Um, after every time, after I had a, one of the kids, it's hard to get your quiet time in. Like, it's just, it just is hard to, to be in the word and different things and you try and you've got screaming baby and all these kinds of things. Um, so he recognized, um, kind of recent within the last few months, he kind of recognized that I wasn't in the word as much as I should be. Um, cause it's very apparent when you're not in God's word and your mood is going haywire. Um, so we had an opportunity to go out on a date. Someone's going to come over and hang out with the kids. And instead of like, Hey, let's go to dinner. Are there any good movies on? He's like, Hey, why don't we go read our Bibles at the office or, and, and bring some books. And I was like, it was fun. Actually, that's a great idea. And I was so excited, which sounds, you know, maybe funny cause it's like our one chance to go on a date, but those couple hours flew by. Like, it was just so great to sit and be able to read and just kind of talk together and stuff. So I think he, I think that's a good example of a spiritual leader. He recognized that I was floundering a little bit and I needed to kind of be pulled back in. And then it was, I was reading, we were talking about what we were learning. That was about three hours worth of, so you have to prioritize, did a movie and popcorn sound better to the flesh. But once we, once we, you know, started, it was, it was fun. It was, it was actually time flew by very quickly. How do you have fair proof your marriage? Yeah. So how do you fair proof your marriage? I will say this though, we're, we're, we're both pretty open and transparent about this. You know, if there's any, she'll say, Hey, this guy, this guy sent me a message on Facebook. Well, we're actually have a joint account. So the one time that that did happen, you actually saw it before I did. And you went ahead and let him know that you saw it. I said, I'd love to get lunch with you. And we're also, I think sharing accounts is good. I recommend it. I know a lot of people are like, Oh, well, if you, you know, you can't trust me there. So then it's like, well, if I can trust you, why don't you want to share the account then? So I don't know for us that works and it's huge accountability. And I know how crafty and deceiving the enemy is. And I know what he wants to do to the marriage. And so I'm not giving him any opportunities. And having the phones available, passwords, you can look at it whenever you want. There's no, and, and, Hey, there's, you know, there was times, I think 2012, I'll never forget that time where, because she said, I'm feeling really, you know, I'm just feeling discontent and we need to connect again. We're kind of drifting apart. So if you identify it, you bring it up and you can talk about it and then make, make the correction course to get back on track with the marriage. So it's, it's not the affair happens in secrecy. When you keep things hidden, whether it's Facebook or email or at work and you keep it hidden. But if you bring something to the light and you say, you know and if a husband's at work is like, I'm just, you know, I'm really attracted with this person. I got to, you know, I got to find a different job or something. Or somebody says, Hey, I'm attracted. We go to this Bible study and I'm attracted to this, this, this guy there or something, you know, and you, you kind of be, that did happen to us. That's why she's laughing. We were, we weren't even married. I don't think, were we? We were just dating. I think we were dating, right? And we were, I don't know, but she was really attracted to one of the guys at the Bible study. So I'm like, well, that's not going to work. Jeez Louise. So embarrassing. That's okay. That's it. That's just a normal, aren't you guys? So that's, but being the whole point was being honest and open and transparent and say, Hey, here's what I'm struggling with. And, um, and not letting it hide in darkness. And it might, it might, it might hurt a little bit to expose it. So if you were to say, if a husband says, Hey, I'm struggling, I've, some things have popped up. Um, I think it's been a couple of years, but if something popped up on my computer and this, I'd tell her, Hey, this, this popped up on the computer this morning. She'd go, okay. You know, we talked. So it's not having this secret little life on the side and nobody knows. It's just being transparent and letting, uh, letting God work through that. So I think that's the biggest thing. That kind of goes along with, um, this question. How do you pray for a dead marriage? Um, and there was a time, like he was talking about around, around 2012. I don't know. It's been quite a while now, but, um, I was in a place where I hadn't been in the word a lot. Um, I just was kind of my, my relationship with Jesus was floundering a little bit. Um, and the church just started. So that brought a whole new, yeah. And when that starts to happen, good things never come of that. Um, I grew very apathetic. Like I just didn't care anymore. I could care less if he came or went. Um, and this is, he, he knows all this already. So, um, but it was, it was getting to the point where I just was done. I was just done to be honest. Um, and I kind of struggled with the Lord because I'm like, everyone else is getting divorced. You got all these other Christians getting divorced. Why can't I just go in and file? But I had enough fear of the Lord in me that said, no, you can't do that. Um, so I remember telling, um, the Lord one time in prayer, I'm like, I don't care who it is, me or him, but you got to take one of us. I can't do this for another 50 years. And I can't, I have no biblical grounds for a divorce, so I know I'm not going to do that, but I don't want to just live as roommates for, for the rest of my life. Um, and that's just how done, you know, that I was. Um, and so the question, how do you pray for a dead marriage? Um, I just started praying, God, I can't, I can't even hold on to you. You got to hold on like you, you got to take this and you got to do something with it. I can't continue like this. And I, and I have no other option but you. And so, um, it wasn't a situation. I know there's some dead marriages due to like so many different circumstances. Ours wasn't any sort of like sin issue or anything like that. It was just life. And, um, my kind of backtracking away from the Lord a little bit. Um, I mean, I was still a Christian. I just wasn't, you know, really on fire. And the setting was too, we had just two little kids and the church just started and that brought on a lot of challenges, a lot of pressure. Um, we were, we were hurt by a lot of people in ministry. I know it's hard to believe, but, um, we, in that the kids, I'm tense and she's not in the word. I'm kind of just going my own, doing my own thing. And the enemy will come in and use that as a wedge and capitalize and start planning thoughts. Uh, like, well, look at this guy or look at this situation. And, but I, I missed the whole point of how do you have fair proof your marriage? It really begins with your devotional life, your time spending your time spent with God in prayer and reading the word and living the Christian field, the spirit field life. That's the best way to a fair proof your marriage. And then these other things I talked about, those are just, that's icing on the cake because accountability software won't stop an affair. It's a, it's a, it's a good thing to do, but your heart has to be right. And, uh, she brought that up to me in 2011. I don't remember when it was, but it hit me like a ton of bricks. Woo. But then we, yeah, he was actually getting ready to do the first marriage series. Jim, you heard that one. Yeah, I was getting ready to get the very first one. Um, you've done a couple of since then. And I remember we were going on an anniversary trip and he didn't know how he, I mean, he knew things were kind of funky, but I don't think he realized the extent of how just low I was at that point. And I remember driving on that two and a half hour drive going again, enough fear that you just need a little bit of that, you know, fear of the Lord to stay in you, to kind of light that fire. And it was like, you are not going to let that man go up there and do a marriage series feeling like this. Like that is just a slap in the face to God. I felt so I had to kind of do the hard thing and, and just kind of spill it and tell them everything that I was feeling and things. And then we, you know, then we prayed, uh, just in the trip was better after that for sure. So I know we prayed and, uh, I didn't, I didn't get upset. I was really just wounded. Um, but remember a lot of it, a lot of it is how we were raised. You've heard my testimony. I was raised in a, in a home. My dad was very angry and boy, you don't cry. There's no emotions. It's driven. It's hard working. You don't, you just, you, you just plow forward and you move forward. You work hard and, and you take that into marriage. And here I am, I'm going a hundred miles an hour. We planted this church and I'm just failing to see that she's dying spiritually. So God used that to really revive the marriage at that point. I think it's, you know, and there's, that was probably a turning point for sure. Um, what has been your most difficult issue to work through? I would say that actually changes with seasons. Like sometimes it's been finances when he was in construction and the market just tanked and it was like all of a sudden we had no money. Um, probably at that season it was finances. Um, having kids for sure at different points or how to handle the kids, how to discipline, different things like that. Um, communication. I don't know. What do you think? Yeah, it's different seasons. What's, what's been the most difficult issue to work through? I mean, at first it was, it was kids. Uh, it's funny because you have that first child and you're like so protective, you know, now the fifth one, we're like, let her crawl on the floor. She won't get sick. I mean, you know, but so I think for me, the first baby was, uh, planting the church was hard. So there's different seasons. So I don't think there's something that stands out. Um, what was that question about intimacy? Oh yeah. Have you ever had a, um, so let me ask, did you ever have a dry spell from lack of intimacy? If so, how did you remedy that? That one I think goes back to communication. You all know what intimacy is if you're here, right? Um, Morgan's mom's right there. So I have to go look this way. And my mom said she's watching on live stream. What was it? Have you ever had a dry spell? Yeah. I would say particularly after having children, each, you know, each time you, you give birth, there's a dry spell, um, different things. How do you remedy it? I would say, um, sometimes it just takes time, like in the case of that, but, um, for maybe a couple who is, um, just not connecting on that level, I would say pray. Honestly, that sounds like, oh, pray, but you just pray for that desire. Pray. You had it there before, you know, when you guys first met and, and different things, the Lord brought you together. And that's such a integral part of a marriage. I feel like that's probably the, that's really the thing that separates or distinguishes marriage from every other relationship. You know, with your, with your parents or your siblings or your friends, you communicate, um, you respect each other, you love each other, you laugh together, you hang out together, you do all these things. Intimacy is the one thing that sets marriage apart. And so, um, God created it. He, he tells us to do it. He even tells us not to refrain from it lest the enemy come in and work. So. And then, so to answer the question, probably communication, uh, because guys are very visual, right? Wake up. Nobody, I mean, no surprises here, right? So guys are visual what they see. Well, a woman can see it and say, I don't want it because you've been a jerk all week. So, you know, do the dishes, vacuum, but it's, it's communication. And, and how do you resurrect that though? If there's no attraction for the other person, they just, the attraction is done. So a lot of times, uh, it's where our thoughts are going mentally. Where, where are we focusing on? That's why men, a lot of men are addicted to pornography. So they have no desire at home. A lot of women now pornography is growing in women as well, but they're watching things. They shouldn't be watching or reading books. They shouldn't be reading, looking. So their mind's going a different direction. The men's going, so they're drifting apart. So really that's why prayer is important. You pray and you bring that back and you say, God, we need this intimacy back. And we need you to show us what to do in this area because we just, we just don't love each other anymore. I don't want to touch him. I don't want to look at him. Yeah. And it's difficult even something just came to mind to like men with pornography, pornography or women, um, even expectations can come in. Like just don't watch the bachelor and the bachelorette. I don't know. I'm just going to throw that out there. There's nothing good and wholesome about those types of movies. There's nothing edifying to your relationship with your husband. When you see someone hooking up with 25 men or someone hooking up with 25 women, and then you start having expectations of what these rendezvous should look like, and maybe they don't look like that in your home and different things. Just, just, yeah, I don't know. I don't know if that's for someone cause it just came to my mind, but just no need. And a lot of, um, you don't know, maybe all of you don't know, but with Morgan's background, when I met her, she was involved in Hollywood. So when she, she was in Craig Morgan's first video, uh, something right home about, you know, Craig Morgan, who's, who's pretty popular country singer. So that started, and then she was getting other work. And so when she became a Christian, a gray glory van, she walked forward when gray glory gave the call and, uh, now everything's changing. So she's getting out of this industry that her whole life was focused on. So the enemy was really having a heyday on, Oh, just the mom now, you know, just, just, just stay at home. Look at this guy. He's, you know, he's planning a church. He can do what he wants and not realizing that God called us together. So it's, it's, it's really taking your thoughts captive. It's a very, it's a very, it was very difficult because that's where the enemy works first. He's going to work where your thoughts go, your feet follow. And that's so important to guard that marriage. Well, what about that? It kind of ties in with the question someone wrote in about, um, maybe you haven't highlighted about like, how did you stay pure before marriage or how did you keep from crossing the line? Let's go through those real quick. That's for a single. Yeah. We actually, um, stopped kissing at one point. Um, but like what, six months before we got married, it was just getting too hard to, you know, we knew that we wanted, we had made mistakes in the past and we knew we want to do things right this time. So we just said, you know, that's done. Um, also, uh, modest. I remember there was a few times, well, one in particular where Shane just said, I just need you to not wear that. And I had again, coming out of Hollywood, being a new Christian. And, um, that was the farthest thing from my mind. And God really had to do a work in my heart. And I remember going through and cleaning out my closet, um, and wanting to cry cause I was throwing away like hundreds of dollars of clothing. And I was like, I'm not just going to give it to the goodwill where some other girl can wear it. This is gone getting burned. But, um, I think the more modest I could be, it really helped him. And so the Lord just had, had really taken me on a journey in that area. So it's always been kind of important to me, but never more so now that we have a 12 year old son and trying to teach him, guard your eyes, guard your heart, take your thoughts captive. Um, so I think like for the single, for it, for women in general, um, try and maintain modesty and teach that to your girls. And the guys are bombarded enough. They don't need it from the church too. And how did you keep yourself from crossing the line before marriage? It really starts in the heart first. We both did not want to go back where we came from in our past. We want to make sure it was God's will to get married. And we were actually so worried about marriage. I broke up six times, I think, right? He did, including once after we were already engaged. I broke. Can you imagine me breaking up with Morgan's? This is not working. I need, but it wasn't always a break. It was more like he had a hard past. I had a hard past. We so desired to know that this was God's will. And our families were like, would you just get married already? Um, but we were looking for red flags. And so it was more of like, I need a break. Don't call me for a break. And then we are going to marriage counseling, pre-marriage counseling in the past. We went to get counseling before he even proposed because we just wanted to be so sure because I was, I was worried making a mistake again. And, uh, but anyway, the pastor said, Hey, um, we're talking in his office. He goes, Morgan, can you go out for a while? And she laughed and he goes, you better stop this stuff. Just ask her to marry you. Are you going to lose her? You're so fearful. I think you proposed that night. I think I did because we were on a break and I was driving and he wasn't supposed to be calling me yet. He's calling me. So I like pulled over on Avenue Jane. He's like, Hey, we had that counseling appointment tonight. Do you want to keep it? Even though we're on a break? I'm like, sure, whatever. So we go to the counseling point, man. That's the night you proposed. I think he shot me straight. And then we broke up again. Did we really? Oh, wow. I took all my bridesmaids to lunch and said, there's not going to be a wedding. And then I had sound. There is going to be one, but it, it sounds, it was a roller coaster, but, um, we, we dated or courted or whatever for six months when you proposed what I asked you on the way to the, on the way home from the beach after three weeks of dating. Okay. So how much time do we have? We were doing a young, we were both attending like a young adults, um, church service, FYI, shout out for young adults luncheon coming up. Make sure you guys sign up in the way you might meet. Um, yeah, we're a testimony of young adults. Um, anyway, so the, the group was going to the beach or something. We decided to drive to bed together in caravans. So we're like playing this weird, I don't know, game of like, well, um, what if like, what if there was an earthquake right now? What if, you know, just, I don't even remember random questions. And he goes, we, we, we had been seeing each other for three weeks and he goes, what if, where do you see this going? And I'm like, right now to the beach. What do you mean? But it was just kind of, he's 10 years older. He had already been divorced, which you guys knew. No, cause you look young and I look old, whatever. Um, so no, I look older. I know that. No, you don't. But anyway, I'm 30 and I'm like, I'm not just going to go on dates for a while. I need to know where's this going. You know, basically I don't want to waste time, but, uh, I mean, that's, that was, I realized in that moment, like this guy's not looking for a girlfriend. He's, he wants a wife. And am I, is that something that I want to see where the Lord is going to take this? Or do I need to just say, you know, no, that I'm not there yet. I was 21. You were 31. And then we got married 22 and 32. So, so that was my fear is this younger girl just out of Hollywood, new Christian. Oh Lord God, I need, but we are seeking God. So there's a lot of strength in knowing that God is directing. If you're doing these things, that's why, how did you keep yourself from not crossing the line before marriage? Because we want to know God's will so much. How did you know they were the one? Did you just know to, for us, it was a process of getting to know their character, uh, their beliefs. And just that you could feel that, especially when you abstain from marriage. I mean, there's, there's a struggle for a little while. That's why I say, I'm not going to kiss you. This is just, we don't need to test it out before we buy it. Right? Just, we just trust God. And we just stopped any type of physical intimacy to hear God's voice clearly. That's a good encouragement for the young adults who are the singles who aren't married. Um, I was just reading a book over the last week and it said 70% of single Christians who say that they're Christian, 70% are not remaining pure. They're just like, whatever, I'm just going to X that part out. But really, and truly it's there for a purpose. There's so much you can save yourself by following God's word before marriage. So definitely, um, if you, if you're not, or you haven't, uh, you can get back on track and just say, Lord, from this point on, um, I want to honor you in that way. And how did you protect your heart in case that person wasn't the right one that's for the single in all the ways we just mentioned. So you don't go so far, you don't get too deep into the relationship. Uh, because when it's, when it's, when that happens, it's all about lust. It's not about love or finding God's will anymore. It's about now there's this, this desire you open the door for that wasn't meant to be open to just yet. And now you're going to be struggling against this, this, uh, competing, uh, God's will and what, what, what's the world's will for your life. I remember something you said a while back too, is you never really know a hundred percent until you say I do. I mean, you pretty much know, and you're 99% sure, but until you say, stand up there and say, I do that person could leave that person could, um, end up, you know, dying that person, whatever. So until you say I do, that's when you're absolutely 100% sure. Absolutely. Yeah. Yep. It's you put on the altar until the day you say I do. Then after that, it's all bets off. We'll get through a few more real quick. How do you keep that balance in your family to prioritize Christ in Christian holidays and reduce today's secular focus on gifts and other secular traditions? Well, you really gotta be on the same page with this one. Um, because, you know, or pray about it, you know, for example, Halloween's coming up. We don't celebrate Halloween per se. Uh, but I'm not gonna, you know, ignore the fact that I like pumpkin seeds roasted in the oven either. And, uh, talk with the kids. We call it good overcame evil day. That's what we're celebrating that Christ, we don't need to fear this other stuff out there. We're not going to dress like witches and warlocks are not going to put stuff in our house, but we're not going to just, you know, we believe Christians can redeem the theme of Christmas or Easter. Uh, so we don't celebrate Halloween, but if we buy a pumpkin and cook some pumpkin seeds and have a fun night out as a family, uh, Christmas, uh, we have a real limited budget on what the kids get. Uh, we kind of make it just a special day. I love Christmas personally. I know some people don't, I get rebuked every year when I have a Christmas tree out in the lobby, but, uh, we're not worshiping the tree as in Jeremiah. We're not, we're, we're just, we're just love this, this holiday. Uh, same with Easter, uh, not celebrating Easter bunnies and things, but what the empty tomb and things. So we talked to them. Yeah. We teach them the real meaning of Christmas and Easter kind of where it rooted, where things started, why, why the world believes what they do and why we believe what we do. Yeah. I mean, for me, Halloween's just a, just a evil type of holiday. So that one's pretty easy. Um, but if the kids want to dress up as Barbie and run around the backyard, I'm not going to go, no, no, no, you're going to hell. You know, it's, it's, well, that's what, yeah, that's, that's goes back to, um, things where like we've disagreed on maybe, cause I grew up, you know, trick or treating and this or that. And so for me, it was like, Oh, well, that's just what we do. And then, um, for him knowing kind of more the background and how that day got started and just all that kind of stuff. So it's, it's been a learning process, um, in that sense too. And, um, you know, yeah, we feel like we've grown to where we're kind of on the same page now. If I'm complete in Christ as a single woman, why do I desire a companion? Well, I can answer that one quickly because you are complete in Christ as a single person, but sometimes God gives us that desire to marry and it's a good desire to have. So you're complete in Christ, you're everything, but that can still be a good God-given desire to pursue a mate. But if a person's single and they've been single a long time, you know, I would again, take it to God in prayer and his timing and, uh, you're, you're complete. You don't have to have someone to make you complete and, um, take it to God in prayer and see what his plan is for your life. Sometimes he's wanting to see, we want Mr., we want Mr. Right instead of being Mr. Right, or we want to meet Mrs. Right instead of being Mr. Right. So God often wants us to work on our character and our own shortcomings as well. Any other ones stand out? I kind of lost track. Does anyone have one they could say real loud, real quick without a microphone? Cause I'd have to repeat it. While you're thinking there's this one, how do you handle unmet expectations? Oh, there's one more. I know. Yeah. How do you, how do you handle unmet expectations? Well, your spouse will never meet your expectations. They never, they're not that the knight on the white horse and she's not what you, they're never going to meet those expectations. That's why you always find that fulfillment in Christ and who God is to you. And don't, don't have someone else be responsible for your happiness. So many people think their spouse and I'm all for happy marriages. I'm all for spouses making, but you can't have the other person be the answer to your happiness and expectations. I think we are both what we were expecting and what really, I mean, it didn't, you know, you think of, you have these images of what marriage is going to be and those expectations come crumbling down usually on both sides. Our first six months, I remember we had a situation where I was just, I had an expectation, a big one, and it was just, it just didn't come to fruition or whatever. To the point where I was crying. It was like such a big deal to me that I went in the other room and I started crying about it. And I just felt like the Lord said, he will never be a hundred percent what you need him to be. Only I can be that to you. And so I felt like he was so gracious. Yeah. I felt like he was so gracious to show me that so early on because it really set up for not that I never had another expectation. You know, I try, I mean, I think we kind of do that natural and we have to remind ourselves to kind of bring it in and, and not expect, um, not, not put those expectations on someone else and make them feel like they have to live up to it all the time, you know, cause that's, that's a lot of weight. Um, we don't want to have those expectations on us. Um, so try not to put it on them too. Real quick. What is your favorite marriage book? Ephesians and Titus. Actual book. Um, mine I think is the 10 commandments of marriage. Uh, his, his name escapes me right now. Ed Young, I believe. Um, love and respect is pretty good. Love and respect. Okay. How do you decide on a tie percent? Is it gross or net? Well, this is going to be an individual family related question. We started ours before we even got married. Uh, we, we were already giving, um, whatever God puts on your heart. I mean, we go towards, uh, we gravitate towards the gross, you know, let's say a person makes $5,000 a month, then they're, they're setting aside $500 for tithe. You don't have to do 10%, but it's a real good principle to follow. And so what happens then is you restructure your life around that. God's a priority, not, well, maybe I'll fit him in later. And we've, we've never looked back. He's, he's been faithful in so many areas. Um, when we were buying a house, our lender actually said, you don't need to count this giving. You can buy a, you know, a nicer home, but no, that was one of our bills. So we kind of went into the marriage, but I think a husband and wife need to agree on it. Also, if, if it's going to put you in a financial bind right now, you need to work towards it. Uh, maybe, maybe downscale a little bit, but you'll never go wrong putting God first. So it shouldn't be, what's the minimal amount I can give versus what's, what does God put on a heart? God loves a cheerful giver in the new Testament. It's not a, you have to give 10% or you have to do this. It's, it's cheerful. We should want to. So we actually, we, we actually enjoy giving back to God, giving back to this church right off, right off the gross, um, before any taxes and, and, and things come out. But I think you can tell me if I'm wrong, but in my opinion, if you're a couple struggling between gross and net and one wants gross and one wants net, if you're the woman, I would just advise, let him make that decision. It's not like you're deciding, should we go spend all this money in Vegas or should we not? This is a decision. He wants to please the Lord. He wants to honor the Lord. He wants to do what's right. I would just trust that and let the Lord lead him honestly. But well, let me just, let me just close out in prayer. God, our hope is that this Q and a would Lord draw more marriages to you. We, we, we just publicly confess that our total reliance on you, God, we need you in our marriages, in our homes, our children. I pray you begin to build marriages this evening and strengthen us in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. All right, guys. Thank you.