In this sermon, Brother Denny addresses various behaviors and attitudes that Christians should be mindful of. He cautions against laughing loudly or boisterously with the intention of seeking attention. He also discusses the importance of walking in love, grace, and righteousness, and highlights the need for guidance in discerning appropriate behavior. Brother Denny emphasizes the importance of modesty in clothing choices, particularly in avoiding narrow skirts and slits that may reveal too much. Overall, the sermon encourages individuals to focus on Jesus Christ and strive to live in accordance with biblical principles.

Hello, this is Brother Denny. Welcome to Charity Ministries. Our desire is that your life would be blessed and changed by this message. This message is not copyrighted and is not to be bought or sold. You are welcome to make copies for your friends and neighbors. If you would like additional messages, please go to our website for a complete listing at www.charityministries.com. If you would like a catalog of other sermons, please call 1-800-227-7902 or write to Charity Ministries, 400 West Main Street, Suite 1, AFPA, 17522. These messages are offered to all without charge by the freewill offerings of God's people. A special thank you to all who support this ministry. Yes, I agree with what Jackie is saying. Thank you, Jackie. If it will make you feel better, I planned these notes a long time before I had any idea I'm going to be sharing them here. So, a lot of these, actually a lot of these notes were just simply, I've had a vision for years for my daughters and I kept thinking, what would happen if I would die and my husband would be left to raise my daughters and, or maybe he would remarry and that woman wouldn't have a lot of convictions that I have and I just wrote some of these things down and then of course I got a lot of it together when I was thinking I'm going to have it somewhere else, but it never worked out to have it there then. But just so you know, I did not prepare this targeting you. I have no desire to attack you today. I just want you to know that this is my vision for my daughters. I want you to see them to be princesses that are totally above reproach and if you can glean something what I am sharing for my daughters, then praise the Lord and I do ask you to please be open because we do learn from each other. I've learned from my family. It's a blessing having my family here. I mean, it's good to have them back there after you speak the first time and say, you don't really look at the people, you kind of look up here and so I'll try to do better with that. We are, every one of us, checker pieces. There is someone moving us. It is either Christ or it's Satan. We often don't think of that. We think I am making my own decisions. I am the boss of what I want to do and we don't realize all we're doing is listening to one or the other and they're just, you know, moving us however they want to. As princesses, we need to be very careful of decisions we make, of clothing we wear or we are allowing the devil to be using us, to be moving us and to be gloating over God because he wants. Okay, my title for today is The Spirit of Modesty in a Princess versus The Spirit of a Harlot. I think many times a lot of our young girls have no idea that they are portraying the spirit of a harlot and I would like to just teach you what a harlot spirit is to show you what to avoid in your life. First of all, let's define modesty. Do you have a sheet of paper that I had out on the ends of the benches so you can kind of follow along where I'm speaking? If you don't, I think there might be a couple stacks along this side you can kind of share maybe if you have a lot. I have made like 150 copies so you can surely find one somewhere. Okay, let's define modesty. I looked it up in the dictionary and it says restrained by a sense of propriety, bashful, chaste, moderate, not excessive, bashful reserve. I looked it up in the Vines Expository Dictionary and it says orderly, well-arranged, decent, modest. The well-ordering is not of dress and demeanor only but of the inner life expressing itself in the outward conversation. And I will be addressing that more than even outward modesty because often if we have inward modesty the outside is no problem. I will be addressing some outwardly but mostly inside. Okay, the spirit of a harlot is the opposite from the spirit of modesty. I looked up numerous passages of scriptures and proverbs in different places throughout the Bible where it talked about a harlot and I looked it up in the book called The Word. I don't know if you're familiar with that, that's like 26 translations of the Bible together. And the connotations that I got I wrote down here. A harlot is a wanderer. She's one that goes astray, she's unsettled, to roam, to err. That's what a wanderer means. It's one that goes astray, she's unsettled, she roams and she errs. A harlot is a flatterer. Flatterer means false praise. Bestowing praise agreeable to one's self-love. It's a fawner. A harlot has a loud spirit. Loud means having a great sound or showy or clamorously. A harlot has a stubborn spirit. She is not to be moved or persuaded. She is obstinate. A harlot has an unchaste spirit. She is not free from impure desires. She lets the connotation out about herself, loose woman. Loose woman is to be careless, to relax when you shouldn't relax. She has the attitude, let my body give you pleasure. A harlot is wanton. Wanton means not to be kept in due restraint, frolicsome, rank, to sport lustfully. A harlot is faithless. She does not adhere to duty that she knows. A harlot exercises deadly charms. Deadly charms would go to enthrall or delight wrongfully using her enchantments. And a harlot has the spirit of debauchery, the spirit to corrupt and to pervert. This is very strong language and we think I don't really have a problem with that. Let's wait until we see a little more. Let's address modesty in spirit and action first. A lot of outward immodesty is traced back to the heart issues. You can pretty well see by someone's actions or dress where their heart is, many times. If you take care of immodesty of your spirit, the outward is almost no problem. Sometimes it can be an ignorance but I wonder how much ignorance we really have, many times. The spirit of modesty is to be inconspicuous, not to be noticeable. In a crowd of people, people's eyes won't be drawn to you. The spirit of a harlot is to be noticed. You want people's eyes drawn to you in a crowd of people. A lot of people judge you by your clothing and you might say that is unfair but it's pretty accurate, many times. You pretty well dress how you want to dress, don't you? There's not a lot of us that force ourselves to dress like we don't want to dress. Talking about happiness, where are you trying to find your happiness and talking about the spirit of a harlot, we want to combine this a little bit. A girl that has not found peace within, in associating herself with Christ, she does not have peace with God and herself. You will not be satisfied not to be noticed. You will continually struggle inside of yourself to want to be noticed. Why do you want to be admired? Isn't it because you do not have your puzzle piece filled? The puzzle that I had up last night. We try the craziest things when we don't have that piece filled. You can be totally modest in your clothing from neck to ankles. I said your clothing does tell on you and it is true, it does, a lot. But there are times when we as young girls are forced by our mothers to dress modestly. You can be totally modest in your clothing from neck to ankles and be greatly wanting in the spirit of modesty. You might have the spirit of a harlot and it is portraying itself. A few examples. Okay, let's talk about the eyes. A harlot uses her eyes to her advantage. Are you using your eyes to be daring and bold? When you look at someone, when you look at a man, are you gazing long into his eyes as you talk to him? Are your eyes saying, come, let's talk, discover me. Do you have a problem of standing in corners or in noticeable places in a building? When you go to church, check your heart. When you get up and stand in the back, or you get up and walk out, what is the real motive? Sometimes it is so, we scarcely think about it and yet if we are entirely honest we know, you know, it is not that necessary that I need to use the restroom right now and I kind of want people to notice me as I walk back. We would be a little disappointed if not one person would be looking at me, would be all looking out the side. Are you using artificial expressions, copying others, for your way of trying to be noticed? You see somebody else and, oh, is that a very cute expression, and you stand in front of the mirror and you try and try and try to re-copy that expression because you think, I want to be noticed like that too. You have to remember the spirit of a harlot is the spirit of wanting to be noticed, wanting people's attention. When you walk into a room, what kind of person are you? Do you walk into the room with the attitude, here I am, notice me, and stand in a prominent place in the room where for sure all the boys or the girls can envy you and admire you, like you? Or do you walk into the room with the expression, there you are, my friend, I am so glad to see you. You are thinking of other people, you are not thinking of yourself, and I assure you, it is noticeable when a girl walks into a room and she has the attitude, here I am. I remember a girl in my youth group that kind of had that attitude it seemed. She would walk into a room just a little late, maybe after the church service would start, you struggle with coming up, maybe just a little, a few minutes later once about everybody seated so they can see you. Talking about walking back through church services, I want to be very kind about this, because some of us, I realize different ones of us, if we are on medication sometimes we cannot help, we really must use the restroom sometime, we cannot wait that long. And I have a lot of sympathy, believe me, I know what it is like. But if you are a young girl, if you use it just before you go sit down, it is not exactly like you are pregnant and need to go every hour, or that you have a baby and need to get up and go back. Just consider that a little bit. How necessary is my walking up? Am I taking glory away from the Lord in the church services that belongs to Him when people's minds are thinking of what the preacher is saying? And I get up and I walk back. And for ten seconds you took somebody's mind off of Christ and thought of you, your form, or your beauty. Let's not take away from God's glory. Let's take this seriously. This is God's house and not only here. Let's feel that puzzle piece of happiness inside that we do not struggle with always wanting the attention that belongs to the Lord. We are not here to give attention to ourselves. We are here to point everybody's gaze and focus to Jesus Christ. Another thing we need to watch is laughing loudly or boisterously. I'm not talking about a natural hearty laugh. Sometimes something very interesting is said and it just bubbles out, just like that. And I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about a laugh where deep inside you want to be noticed. You laugh because you want people's attention to be drawn to you. Giggling constantly over things that if you would be by yourself you would consider funny. But because you're with the right company, you know, you giggle and you giggle around. Let's talk about the way we walk. This is a big one with a lot of young girls. First of all, I want to address you girls that are ages ten to fourteen. You are young and your physical body is starting to change. I remember how exciting that was for me. It was such an exciting time in my life. I wanted it long before. It was just so fun growing up and after a bit I got this, well, a woman's time of life came to me and it was so exciting to think, wow, I could have a baby. I really could have a baby if I would get married. And it is an exciting time. And we are not condemning you for that. Believe me, every one of us experienced that time one time in our life. What would you say if a twenty year old boy would not eat all the food on his plate? He would leave his bed a riot every morning, his room a riot, his socks and shoes and he wouldn't take any responsibility at all for himself. You'd say, it's time he grows up. It's time he accepts the responsibility that his age requires. Let's talk to you young girls. God did not give you a changing body and the form of a woman until he knew that you are old enough to begin to accept the responsibility that brings on you. And there is responsibility. A lot of young girls, when their body starts changing, they are so excited about it. They think everybody has to know it if they see it. And rest assured, we mothers, we do see when our daughters grow up. It's not that hard to see. But we begin by, as much as we can, we put our shoulders back and we walk like this. And after a bit, and after a bit, we stretch in front of other people. We push our shoulders back as far as we can. We want people to know we're growing up. And it's exciting to grow up. But you need to accept the responsibility that comes in growing up. Your form is changing and there is no denying it. Once your form changes, you are put into the category of a woman. You are getting a woman's body and you need to have a woman's responsibility in that. Now you have the privilege of making your body a secret. And that's the privilege. That's exciting. You think, my body is changing. I have the privilege of starting to try to hide it and to preserve that body for my husband. Then there are girls, I can't even bring myself to do this, that believe in jiggling their hips. The way you walk, you know, you just swam just the right way. And something in you tells you that it's supposed to be sensuous, but you don't realize what you're doing. You don't realize the fire you are playing with and the danger that is in there. You are starting to put a spirit of a harlot in you. Once you have that spirit in you, woe is you. Your life is one downward road. You need to see it seriously as it is. And just an encouragement to the mothers. I don't want to teach anything to you, but just an encouragement. Sometimes it's our fault our daughters don't realize how serious this is. And if we would make it very hard for them, the more they walk that way, the looser we make their clothing, I think they would soon learn to walk in a becoming manner. Sometimes we hardly know how to walk because we are so self-conscious. And there's others that go the other extreme and they just walk around like this and their shoulders bent forward and they're so self-conscious they cannot stand if anybody sees them. I'd like for you, and you hear of other people talking, oh that girl walks terribly, you know, and after a bit you get so self-conscious you think, how in the world do I even know how to walk? I don't know how, I mean I'm feeling so self-conscious and you're growing in height and you feel gangly and you feel out of tune with your body actually. I think it would be in order to do some practice walking. This is not something I'm trying to make you boost up your self-image, but just to learn what graceful walking is. Pick out someone older that really knows, that you admire and knows has the Spirit of Christ and you really want to learn how to walk. I advise you to line yourself up with a wall, with your back straight. Forget about your shoulders, don't put them forward or back, just keep them straight. Align yourself with the wall and walk, put your feet maybe, or it depends how tall you are, just a comfortable medium step, don't lift them high off the ground, just glide them over the ground like this. And practice that for a while until it becomes natural because I do have a heart when you really struggle with not knowing how to walk with your changing body. But above all, do not even begin to let the devil put a step or the Spirit of a harlot in you by pushing your shoulders back and trying to reveal your body as much as you can. You are a woman, act like a true mature woman, accept the responsibilities of a woman and grow up. A flatterer of myself or of others. A flatterer is the Spirit of a harlot. Sometimes in joking we say, yeah I did so and so just right and we know we're joking and the other person knows we're joking, but underneath there is a desire that they notice what I did and appreciate it. I think that sometimes falls under flattery without you realizing it. You flatter yourself because you want to have the love of others, the admiration of others. Is it because your puzzle piece is not totally filled with Christ? Are you insecure? I assure you, if you find Christ for what He meant to be, is meant to be in your life, you will not be an insecure person. You will feel complete in Him. Okay, let's turn to 1 Corinthians 6.15. Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. You must remember all harlots are being moved by the master player, the devil. A true princess is moved by the hand of Christ Himself. Watch out for these harlot expressions and ways so that you are not being moved by the devil. Okay, let's discuss careless and loose. The way of a harlot is being careless and loose. We flop down beside and against boys. That is being totally careless and loose. That is putting a temptation in a godly or ungodly young man that is not meant to give. Are you letting the devil use you to tempt one of God's servants, to tempt what you call your Lord? Are you letting the devil use you to grieve your Lord? You should avoid that at all times, flopping down beside and against boys. It's just a careless and loose attitude about your body, about their body. Okay, are you using deadly charms in your life? When you talk to boys or even women, do you flutter your eyelashes just at the right time? Do you use coy expressions? Do you pretend an interest in what they're saying when you have no interest? Are you trying to get the affection of a man by pretending interest in what he's saying when you have no interest? I'm not giving room for impoliteness. There are times we need to listen, but there are times when we try to put our charms on and just, oh, is that right? And just putting the right expressions and the right attitude and the right look in our eyes to try to draw this man to us. Does your interest in conversation stem from genuine concern, or does it stem from a desire to make this man fall for you? Okay, let's talk about modesty in dress. We are responsible for modesty in clothing because we are not our own. We are never by ourselves unless we're in a forest, a barren desert, or locked room. We will constantly be rubbing shoulders with people. So our responsibility is to let God be glorified continually in our body. We will give no room for the devil to be glorified at all times. 1 Thessalonians 4, 4 through 8, that every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honor, not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God. That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter, because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified. For God has not called us to uncleanness, but unto holiness. He therefore that despises not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his Holy Spirit. Are you despising God in your actions? You say, I do not despise him, I love him, but do your actions really come up to that? Are you despising his teachings? 1 Corinthians 6, 19 through 20. What? Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which you have of God, and you are not your own, for ye are bought with a price. Therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God. The way to glorify God is to bring glory to him, to make people's thoughts and attention go to him, not to us. Purity. That's one of my favorite verses in the English language. It's purity. There's something about it that is just so pure, so noble, so beautiful. Make purity your goal. Nothing is more beautiful. You might have to pass up on some dress and activities that others enjoy, but you will be happier. A pure princess is a very happy princess. Purity is more important than friends. Purity in dress is also. Friends that are attracted to you because of the way you dress are not worth keeping. If they love you because of the heart and the spirit that is in you, you will keep them. You do not need to dress to please them. You dress to please your Father in Heaven, your King. If your heart and goals change and you have to lose them, Jesus is counting you more worthy of the Kingdom of God. We strive for purity because our bodies are not our own. We are responsible to answer to our Creator for how we use his possession. There is no such thing as being totally irresponsible in the world. Irresponsible people usually end up doing something crazy like shooting somebody and they end up in jail, but you know what? There they are responsible. A totally irresponsible person in the world is often put on the electric chair. There is nothing like being irresponsible. Maybe you say, well I don't want to be responsible for others. The Colorado shootout occurred because people did not want to be responsible for other people. Not being responsible for other people is a very, very selfish way to live. There is no happiness in a world where nobody is responsible for the others. We are all responsible and judged by God accordingly, whether we decide to accept that responsibility or not. Many times we think, well I just don't believe that. You think it's ridiculous if an atheist says, well I just don't believe there is a God. You say, that doesn't make any difference. It doesn't make any difference what you believe. Truth is truth. And it's the same way in modesty. It doesn't matter what you choose to believe. You are not the one that created men and women and put desires in their heart. God is the one that did that. He made them perfectly, but you are not the deciding factor. With you deciding whether this is immodest or it isn't, that doesn't make any difference whether it is immodest or not. Truth is truth. Inward modesty is very important, but we need to remember that anything we wear outwardly should be that which lets our inside spirit shine out and does not cover it. Our radiant countenances and our spirit is what will win the world. I know Jesus Christ wins the world, but in essence that is we princesses, that is our weapon to defeat Satan. It's our faces, our inward countenance and our spirit that shines out. Please don't wear anything that's going to cover that up or draw attention to that instead of your radiant countenance. You need to wear something that will correspond with it. Proverbs 8.36, He that sinneth against me, it's talking about wisdom, wrongeth his own soul. And they that hate me love death. And I would just like to plead with you. Love wisdom. Reach out for wisdom. Maybe it's treading on your toes, but love wisdom. If you hate it, you're wronging your own soul. You're ruining your own life. Okay, I'm going to do some clothing things and I am not planning on addressing a lot on patterns. You have your mothers and you have your pastors to advise you. And who am I to say what you should wear and what you shouldn't wear? It is a mother's responsibility to make sure the patterns her daughters are wearing are patterns that are becoming for a princess. And I will not tread on that ground a lot. But I'm going to more bring out how is that pattern fitting over your body? Sometimes you think, well, I'm obeying my mother. I'm obeying my church. But you're totally bypassing the entire thing that it is meant for. I am trying to come at this impartially and I beg of you to do that too. Set yourself apart from your own wishes and desires and try to just lay down your own opinions for a little bit and let's pretend we're not women and we're not men. Well, maybe we need to pretend we're men. Anyways, just stand outside of yourself for a little bit and help me with this. What is modesty in clothing? Is cape dresses modesty? No? One piece dresses? Something that covers from neck to calf, is that modesty? Absolutely not. That's one of the biggest mistakes we make is we think we're modest if we're covered from here to the ankles. The world is very modest if that's the case very many times with their dresses. Modesty is not in covering your body. It is in concealing your form. That is modesty. Okay, let's read 1 Timothy 2, 9 through 10. In like manner also that women adorn themselves in modest apparel with shamefacedness and sobriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly array, but which becometh women professing godliness with good works. You are professing godliness. Let your dress measure up to it. Okay, let's discuss a little bit and I'm going to need your women's help. We are teaching the daughters and I'm going to need your help so please be open and free to share. What body parts of a woman are considered attractive or considered, it is known worldwide pretty well, that is the body parts that is a cause in which a man can stumble or have a temptation. Can you help me? The breasts, okay. We'll talk about the bust line. Something else? The hips, that's good. Well this lady doesn't have a lot but it's true. The hips is another point I had remembered. Legs, okay. And the waist. That's what we're going to be talking about. We're going to be talking about the bust line, the waist, the hips and the legs. That is where you are different from a man. A man tends to be more straight. A woman is all curvy, a lot of them are. You have a curve over your bust, you have a curve in by your waist, you have a curve out over your hips and the calves of your legs and the thighs of your legs, they're curved. Our responsibility in being modest is to hide these curves from eyes which are not meant to see them. And something I want you to remember as I am doing this, you can go put those clothing on. Something I want you to remember is a suggestive hint is much worse than actual sight many times. And we think well I'm covered but just the suggestion of it is what often makes people think. And I'm getting my sisters to put some clothing on and I beg your patience. It is not what I consider modest and that is why I am presenting this and I can't say that they exactly enjoy the thought of doing this. So be patient with them. First of all we're going to talk about how to cover this area. Let's look at our necklines first of all. Or rather while they're in there I'll bring something else out. Let's look at the point of hugging sweaters. You put a sweater on, you have three or four layers on so you can't go by, you cannot go by the amount of layers you have on. This sweater is loose and it's very cuddly. We like our cuddly sweaters and I don't blame you for it. How many of you women think that it would be possible for a man to have wrong thoughts about this? Some, some not. I realize this is a fairly loose sweater but I just wanted to bring a point out. With the sweaters that we wear, let's wear something that has a cuff in the bottom that loosens this up a little bit or get something that has body. Just whatever you do, don't wear something that when you walk into a room, immediately without really trying to, other people's eyes are just zoomed, they just zoom right in at your breast area and I was a little hesitant about this sweater because I realize it's so borderline in some but as a whole you are still showing very definitely two separate shapes in the front and people's eyes will zoom into there and I'm just cautioning you to be careful with the vest, with the sweaters that you wear in that area that you don't wear something that very definitely leaves two rounded bulges hanging out. Okay, another thing I wanted to bring out is this. We think, okay, my ministry and my mother or whoever says I should wear a double layer, so my focus gets to be on the fact of a double layer. I have a fairly good neckline on here, I have a modest skirt and I'm wearing a double layer and I feel pretty good about myself. Do you think that could be room for temptation? Can you ladies over there see? It doesn't matter how many layers we wear, one of the main things we need to avoid is showing the full curve. One thing I wanted to bring out was this. We are women and modesty means to be moderate and it is very hard sometimes if we are moderate and not overboard in our dress to not show any resemblance of a shape but one of the main things is this. We have a curve here, we have a curve in the back and the curve of our legs. We are avoiding a lot of immodesty. Sometimes we can't help it if the curve comes out but what we need to watch at all times with the curves in our body is that the underside of the curve is not showing. We as women, it's hard to dress practically without swimming in our things, without coming out a little bit but you are immodest once you begin to show the underside of your curve, giving someone a good idea of the size of your bust. Same way with the hips. The hips are focal points, something that you can make someone fall. If you have a waist, your dress will naturally come out a little bit over your hips but avoid anything. What we are to avoid is showing the underside of the hips. That's when it becomes immodest because people are getting a good idea of what size your hips are. Same way with the bust, like I said, I'll show you again. Sometimes coming out is almost impossible if we want to be practical and not swim in our dresses but what we can help is this, showing the underside of the curve. And the same way with our legs. Our legs are shaped like this in the back, the calves of our legs. If we keep our dresses long enough to always slice it right in half that the upper side of that calf is not shown, it doesn't give the man the idea exactly how big your leg is. And I was so comfortable when I came to something to grab on because sometimes there's so many things that are kind of fishy and you think, well how do I know if it's modest or not? And suddenly I thought, that is a big point to remember. You show the one side of the curve and I'm not saying you should show it but sometimes depending on how we're built it's hard to hide it. But there is no need to show the underside of the curve and show exactly what proportion your body is. Okay, I would like to bring out a little more about hiding the chest area. I've talked about form-fitting clothing and vests and things like that. Now I'd like to bring in how a low neckline, you can come up girl, how low necklines often give people a view that they should not have. You can stand over by this mirror. Okay, if you have a low neckline you often look in the mirror and it's just maybe here and you think, well I'm modest, you can't see my breasts, you can't see anything that you're not supposed to see. The thing is you're not doing in the mirror what you do away from the mirror. Once you're away from the mirror you're going to go down to the floor and you're going to pick up a toy, right like that. Or you're going to go to the store and you think, well I'm not doing anything with children today, I'm going shopping. And you go to the store and without thinking, you don't think of it every time. Write out a check. The cashier can look right in. And it takes so little, it's shocking. After I started doing this modesty section, I had to change some of mine. I decided I'm going to go extreme if I have to. I'm going to see, make sure that there is absolutely no way possible somebody can see in my neckline. And I went like this. Probably the best posture for you to do that is to bend over and to look in the mirror and while you're bending over, look in the mirror, raise your head as if you're going down picking up a toy and somebody says something and you look up. Putting your hands between your legs, pretend you're playing croquet. That's what I started doing in the mirror. And if my neckline, if you see right in there, I think, well, that doesn't pass. The reason it doesn't pass is this. We think, well, it's such a little chance somebody will see it. As a princess and you want to glorify the Lord, do you ever give the slightest chance that the devil may gloat over your God? I got my servant to stumble because of yours. A princess cannot afford to take chances. Okay, I want you to look in the mirror and just show how little you need to bend until you can see in. Okay, now you do it. Yeah, I think you tucked it up a little bit. One thing to remember about necklines, sometimes we don't have it too bad in the front but because we make it so wide and because it goes down further in the back, as soon as we bend forward, all that loose just kind of falls like this and leaves a space that you can see in. Another thing I wanted to bring out, oh, another thing I wanted to bring out was this. My husband told me, and please don't think wrong thoughts about him, he was just trying to help me in this. He said it takes almost no effort, if any effort, for a tall man to look right into a woman's low neckline. You don't even have to bend over. Do you want to please the Lord? Do you want to glorify Him in every minute of your day? Or do you want the devil to gloat over the fact that his servant was able to plant wrong thoughts in God's servant? Okay, now how to cover the waist curve. I don't have a problem if you have a fitted waist, but when that becomes immodest is once you show very clearly the line from the tip of your breasts down to your waist. You show your tiny waist in comparison to your bust line, that's when it becomes immodest. If you like the secure feeling of a waist, go ahead, put elastic in it, but make sure it's loose enough like this that it gives body, that it doesn't clearly define that underside curve. Okay, also another thing that a lot of girls are caught in is tightly tied bands. Your mother decides well you really must be modest, and I'm going to make that you have to be modest, and she makes a very modest jumper for you, and you don't like the thought of being so modest. You want people to think you're slim. This is a fairly modest jumper, wouldn't you say? But you don't like it, you have a little bit of the spirit of a harlot in you that wants to be noticed, and you get your ties. Does it make a difference? Do you think that gives man room to stumble or a woman? I want to bring something out, many times we think well if it's just women it doesn't matter. We put more pressure on each other many times than the men do. We stumble women by making them jealous of our bodies and discontent and bitter towards their Creator, simply by showing off our form many times without having any idea. Especially if you are a very shapely woman, you never face the insecurities that some face that are not as shapely as others, and you don't realize what you're doing, how discontented you are making them. I believe I read recently that 80% of women struggle when they look at magazines with closed women, because they think, I'm not that beautiful. 80% of women, just because you're not shaped right doesn't mean you're out of the ordinary or shaped exactly like the world is considering the in thing right now, and besides the world keeps changing. Longer ago it was very shapely, now the in thing in the world is to be as flat and thin as you can. The world continues to change, and just don't let yourself be an instrument to cause a woman to covet. Covetousness is one of the worst sins that's mentioned with the other sins of those that are cast into hellfire, and too often we think, well if it's not a man, it's you know, but we are a stumbling block to the women if we're not careful. Okay, a point to remember, it's not the style, pattern, or type of clothing that makes something immodest as much as how it fits over you. We like copying each other so much, we keep asking for patterns, and oh that is so beautiful, I want to try it on me, and some of that is not wrong, but sometimes we think, well if it's modest on her, it will be modest on me, and it isn't. I mean, small busted women can wear things that big busted women cannot wear, and it's a blessing to them, but don't think that you can wear it just because it's okay on her. You need to continually take these body checks in the mirror to see, am I modest for myself? It doesn't matter if it's modest on somebody else. Okay, now let's talk about how to cover the hips. Low waists that rest on your hips and move with them, giving that jiggly look is immodest, because it immediately draws people's attention to your hips. Do you actually really want somebody to think of your hips? Sometimes you think, I want them to think of the form or the shape, but actually what it is, you're making people think how you look without clothing. Did you think of that? That's worse than you were really imagining it to be. Okay, the width of your skirt is another thing I would like to talk about. Both narrow and excessively gathered. Remember, modesty is being moderate. Sometimes we get so paranoid, we want to be so modest that we gather it so full and ruffle it so much that all we do is give ourselves a very hippie appearance, and that's something too to avoid. But more so even than that is to avoid the look of a very narrow skirt, because, Lorraine, can you come here? I'm not sure if this skirt works on you or not, but turn around one and walk a little bit. Not just slightly, but there's some skirts that are narrow that when you walk, it kind of hugs in the bottom like this here. As you're walking, it's hugging in, and it's showing the bottom side of that curve that you want to try to hide. Okay, your hips and legs should be fully covered by your skirt when going upstairs or picking objects from the floor. The problem is, that jumper, I wanted to bring that one because when you look at it, it looks pretty modest. You cannot see the bigness of the bust, you cannot see the bigness of the waist, and you can't even really see the hips. And you look in the mirror and you think, this is a modest jumper, right? It's a fairly modest jumper. I mean, my cape dresses show as much as that thing does. But once again, what we're not doing is doing exercises in front of the mirror which are necessary to do. Laureen, I want you to pretend that this is a toy a child dropped on the floor, and you bend down and you pick it up. Okay, freeze. Do you see that? Okay, you can get up. That is to show that not everything we do that is a mere thing like picking up a toy can immediately reveal our whole hip size and the size and shape of our thighs. Okay, go up the steps. Just put your leg up here. Going up the steps. Do you see that? You can put it down again. We are not hiding the things that need to be hidden by very narrow skirts. And now, how to cover the shape of the legs. She brought that out also by the narrowness and wideness of the skirt. But I would like to also talk about slits in the skirt. To begin with, many times slits are in the skirt because the skirt is so narrow. But there are some skirts that are fairly wide enough, but the slit is so long. I would like to tell you something to remember. Once again, a suggestive hint is worse than actual sight, and a slit is often worse than if your entire dress would be that size. I want to tell you your skirt is no longer than the top of your slit. Can you walk sideways? The other way. Do you see that? How the leg shows right through the slit of the skirt? Your skirt is absolutely no longer than the top of your slit. You think, well, my skirt is down to my ankles. It doesn't matter if your slit is up above the calves. You're still showing your legs. Okay, you can go back and change. Thank you, girls. Okay, another thing to remember. I'm talking about hoes or thick stockings. I have nothing against either one of them, although you'd rather see me in them because they drive my husband crazy. It just goes against his grain to have a few of hoes. If you wear hoes, hoes are supposedly very dressy, and they are. You feel dressed up in it, and that's not wrong to feel dressed up once in a while. But be especially careful about the length of your dress when you wear hoes, because hoes have a way of making your legs look very attractive and sexual. And you need to be careful. Just keep that in mind. I have nothing against hoes, but wear a decently long dress for sure over the calves. I mean, you know, over the mid of your calves, and you can't see the other side. If you wear thick woolly stockings that the calves are not so clearly defined, it doesn't matter sometimes if the dress is a little shorter. I wouldn't advise it all the time, but it's a little different. And you think, oh, how can I? This is rather heavy. I'm not asking that you can do a Chinese split in your skirts by all means. How often do you do a Chinese split in front of others? I'm just saying the normal activities of your day, going upstairs, picking up toys, that should be in your consideration when you buy or make your clothing. And you think, well, what a burden. I don't want to every morning look at the mirror and make sure everything's okay. Don't worry about it. When you make a new dress, you do the check-in and forget about it after that. Unless you gain 10 pounds, 20 pounds, or you lose 10 pounds, 20 pounds. That's what I had to do with my necklines. I lost a lot of weight the last year, and I suddenly realized they don't pass the mark. And as much as I hate to redo my clothing, I decided it's still worth it if I do that. And I would encourage you to go home and do this neckline check. It is very surprising how far up your necklines have to be when you stand like this and look in the mirror in order not to see inside. And another thing I would encourage you to do, if you have a feeling that you are not being modest with clothing, you go home and do the check, and God's Spirit is talking to you, not because I said anything, but if you truly feel like God's Spirit might be talking to you about a form-fitting vest, or a low neckline, or a tight skirt, I beg of you to go home and get rid of it at once. The longer you look over it and ponder, the fainter and fainter God's Spirit will become. And if you make definite steps immediately, that is going to really be ingrained in you, and you'll be more willing in the future to consider things. Okay, let's talk about modesty in the message of our clothing. The brightness and shininess of material. Now this thing isn't quite as gaudy as I wanted it to because I washed it after I got it, but can you see what kind of material this is? Can you see it by the light? It's a very flashy kind of material. If you don't want to draw attention to yourself in a crowd of people, don't wear anything like this. If you want the attention to be on the Lord Jesus and in glorifying Him, never wear something that the light shades just dance around and play with. And especially if you have a shapely form, they just play shadows around over your shape, and that is something to avoid. A lot of the clothing that you buy, and I have nothing against buying clothing, but I will tell you if you don't sew your clothing, you're going to have a much harder time buying something that's modest. A lot of the clothing that you buy, not all of it, but most of it, had a very clever designer mind behind it. Those people know that unless they appeal to the flesh, it will not sell. They will make the clothing in ways, vests in ways that make your eyes just zoom in on personal spots, or they'll put a little hole in the blouse, you know, just right down here, and people's eyes, you can see it. I mean, I've never worn one like that, but I know, depending what I wore already, made me conscious it's immodest. If I went somewhere and immediately I saw people's eyes just zoom in on personal areas in my body. The designer knew that if he can put tucks in here or looseness here with tightness at another place, perhaps no material at certain focal spots, the eyes of others would zoom in on personal areas of your body. If you want to buy or make your own clothing, try to select patterns that will be simple and free from suggestive outlines, the focal points of breasts, hips, and legs. What do you want to be identified with? You think, okay, I will dress modestly. So you go and you buy a lot of clothing. Sometimes we are very ignorant people, and I would like to open your eyes to this. A lot of clothing can be modest, but because of what it is associated with, it gives you a bad name when you wear it. For instance, it will identify you or associate you with a certain group of people that obviously did not have connection with God. And with that, I want to just say a little bit about Western clothing. That sometimes has a way of kind of creeping in, and you think, well, it's modest, but modesty is not only in how it fits over your body, it's on who this thing is glorifying it. Is it glorifying the wild, lawless West, or is it glorifying our Prince of Peace, the satisfier of our soul? Do you want the message of your clothes to identify you with them? Another thing, you can get very modest Indian skirts. A lot of them have designs on them. They associate you with Indians that worshipped idols and gods that were purely satanical. And if you're not careful, they're going to associate you with a group of people like that. Do you get what I'm saying? You don't want the message of your clothing to be that I am associating with people that very obviously did not love God, did not glorify God, but worshipped idols and other things, or worshipped themselves, not giving glory to Christ. Things like motorcycle gangs wearing or buying things with fringes on the arms, long fringes. That stuff often just immediately makes people think, oh, motorcycle gangs. And the thing is, a lot of us don't think about it sometimes, and we have no idea how ridiculous this looks to people that know. The world is not ignorant, and they know the message of these clothing. And here we come around with these clothing and this little veil perched on the top of our head and make ourselves totally ridiculous, even in the eyes of the world. The world is not stupid. We just might be ignorant. They know clothes give a message, and they are well aware of what that message is. Any clothing that identifies you with a bad name or brings God less glory is not proper for a princess to wear. When I was a girl, one time we had a weekend, and a lot of youth came together, sort of like a youth Bible school just over the weekend, and there were a lot of girls that slept together in one place. And it always stuck with me. This one girl had a t-shirt on for the night, and she had a big picture of herself printed on the t-shirt with, I believe, an apron on and a covering. And she was just so plain on this picture, and beside it, in hot neon colors, it said, Hot Stuff. It was so contradictory. I don't believe that girl knew what she was doing. I mean, I hope she didn't. But what do you think those people thought that she sent that t-shirt in to put those words on beside a picture of a girl that is supposed to be bringing glory to Christ and not to hot focal points of her body? People look at us, we profess to have the answers and peace in our hearts, but we hanker to look cool like them. And then we have our veils perched on top of our heads. They see right through us. They see that our puzzle piece is not filled. Do you think they want that? Of course not. One thing that really spoke to me, I read a story one time of a young girl, well, a bunch of young girls, I think they were nurses, and they got into this discussion. This one girl dressed very modestly, and oh, did she get fire from the other young Christians. They thought, this is ridiculous. We need to be more like the world to win the world. And finally, they couldn't solve the argument, so finally they asked a non-Christian nurse that was working there. And the non-Christian nurse said, this is so ridiculous. If you have something that I don't, and you are happy with it, you will not be pursuing the same things I'm pursuing. The world knows that. Don't we know it? Okay, what about the perfume that we wear? What message are you leaving with the strong scent you leave behind you? Are you leaving the scent of a harlot? Smell me, it would feel good to be close and in my arms. Do you have the spirit of a harlot? You read some of those perfume labels, and I have nothing against having a soft, clean, wonderful, soapy smell. And even perfume, if you want to just have the faintest touch, but not something that when you walk past something, it's just, wow, that would feel good to be close to her. It's the message of a harlot that you're leaving behind you, and I really caution young princesses in the use of perfume to be careful about that. And the other side of the coin, what message are you leaving with a strong, distasteful body odor? Are you leaving a gross, distasteful body odor behind you that anybody would not be attracted? You have to remember, you are a princess and an ambassador. You are trying to bring people into the kingdom. You go around leaving a distasteful body odor. You are totally repulsive to them, and they will not want to associate with you or with the God that you serve. Copying fashion. Just because something is in style right now does not automatically make it wrong. This might shock you. What is criticized now may be old-fashioned in three years. Our focus is not on the world. It changes so drastically, continually. The world constantly changes. Just remember when buying or making your clothes to strive for that which is modest, quiet, and not showy, in a way that will give you protection and a good name. A lot of girls have no idea how they are ruining their names among godly young men by showing their bodies. But, looking at the other side of the coin, are the fashions ruling us? Are they our God? Are they taking us a try for happiness? What I am trying to get you to see is, do not look at the world, what the fashions are, if it is in or if it is not. Do not look at other people. When you go to make clothing or you go to buy clothing, you get something that has a meek and quiet attitude about it, not something that is going to exalt you wherever you go, people's eyes are drawn to you. You get something that is just soft and feminine, whether it is in or it is out, it does not matter, just something that is modest. Many times the things that are really modest are not in. Okay, let us talk about modesty to men. And now I am just going to read this sheet because I was not sure if I could say it quite as evenly or flowing it as evenly as I could write it. Our attitude about men. Sometimes we get irks at what we call lustful men. We do not like to accept our responsibility in life and we resent the conviction we feel about our immodesty and we blame it all on men. We need to realize that God is a perfect God and He makes no mistakes. He had a perfect plan in mind when He created men and women. He created men to be attracted to women. He knew that we women would often feel lonely, tired, sore, and in need of a man to love us and love taking care of us. He knew that in those times we women would not want men that are calloused, indifferent, and could not care less about us. So He created men to be fascinated by women. They are so uniquely different from themselves. Now a man that is in Christ has his emotions and feelings in good control. He will wait to give vent to those God-given feelings until God gives him the woman of his life. And then he will pour out his affection and fascination for her on her alone. And then there are men that are not found totally in Christ. Since they are not finding true fulfillment in Him, they will try to find it in other ways. Some try sports. Some try giving vent to lustful feelings. It's just a lot of different areas. They give vent to that avenue of searching for happiness. They let their God-given feelings rule them and go totally out of the boundaries that God has given us. Their insecurities and lack of happiness spur them into dangerous roads of thoughts and actions. Can we learn to look at them through eyes of compassion instead of scorn and pray for them that God would heal their insecurities and they would learn to find fulfillment in Christ and His plan for their lives. Judge not that ye be not judged. Many times we feel judgmental towards men or boys who we claim have a lust problem and have no idea that while we are judging them, God is judging us. Are you sure the reason you struggle against men and boys that you have to dress modestly isn't because you have a spirit of a heart that wants to be noticed, your form? He sees our own lack of true fulfillment in Him and our outward manifestations of it. He sees the way we stand or where we try to stand to attract attention. He sees our tight clothing. He sees our flirting eyes, our deep inside being yearning for attention. You judge Him scornfully and you call Him lustful. God judges you with grief in His heart and He calls you harlot. It is so easy to pick out others faults. If we can quickly pick it up when a man or boy is lustful, check their own heart. Can you pick it up because you know the feeling yourself? There are no people you can see through more than the people that are like yourself. A point to remember, we cannot class all men as lustful or all women as decent. There are many, many wholesome, decent men and there are many, many decent women around. There are many, many indecent women around. I think in the world, I don't think the men are a whole lot worse than the women. Do you? This might be a new thought to you, but I don't think they are. The women are sporting their bodies with spirits of harlots. What is the difference between that and lusting? They're both sins in God's eyes. Our responsibility is to dress and act in a way that will not give room for sight and then imagination in the lustful man's heart, or a feeling of inadequacy and covetousness in a woman's heart, and will bring deep respect in the hearts of all decent men. It is the careless and thoughtless girl who will dress in a way that others will have to look away at times to avoid unchaste thoughts or sight. Are you going to be careless enough to be Satan's tool to gloat over God? Take care to never dress in a way that will give a weak man a desire that you cannot rightfully fulfill. That is what defrauding means. Defrauding means giving someone else a desire that they cannot before God rightfully fulfill. And the Bible is warning us against defrauding our brother. Take care to not defraud your brother. Now I would like to say this. The man that will be attracted to the bold, forthright, immodest girl with no reserve or secrecy is usually an insecure man. A complete and confident man who will make a kind and secure leader is drawn to reserved dignity. I would like you girls to remember that. That is very important. You want a godly man? You pursue reserved dignity with your heart and you might get it. You are a gift. If I would hold this gift up and this, how many of you would choose this one? How many of you are curious about this one and want to open it? How many of you would like this gift to see what's in here? You are the surprise package that God has made for himself and for the man he wants you to marry someday. Your body is you and God's secret. No one else's. You are not your friend's secret. You're not even your best friend's secret. You are not your husband's family's secret either. You are God's secret and gift and the man he wants you to marry. His secret and gift. Many girls think to be a gaudy butterfly that shows the form and shape of their body will attract a man to marry them. Any man that will make a safe truly loving husband is one that is attracted to this. Reserve dignity, a secrecy about your body. Learn to enjoy being a secret. There is nothing fascinating in something that has no mystery or unanswered questions to it. You look at the many girls that have very little reserve. How many of them don't get married till very late in life or get married at all? There's nothing fascinating to someone that has no secrecy or dignity about them. Revel in the thought that someday if God chooses marriage for you, you can give your husband the gift of yourself that no one else has ever seen or had. You are God's own surprise package for him. Being a secret before and after our marriage to others who are not meant to know the secrets of our body will raise up a deep reverence and respect in the heart of our husband once we become married. Many women have no idea how deep the respect and the reverence of a husband goes. You have no idea because you never worked hard enough to give him a chance to respect you. Would you like to have a man that you know all your girlfriends pretty well know exactly what he looks like? Would you like to have a man like that for your marriage partner and you know your girlfriends are thinking all kinds of things when you get married? Would you like to have a man that's immodest? I don't think the man you want to get married to will want to have you that immodest, but there's no room left to have respect. Many times we want the awe and respect of a man. We will not get it without working for it. We need to work for this awe and respect and the way we get it and I am talking to you girls. If you want this respect for your husband in the future, you let him know we respect him enough to keep his secret. Learn to look at it through God's eyes also. Suppose you made your best friend's wedding gown. You loved her. You made this wedding gown for her. She starts to wear it to parties, different places, about a year before the wedding is ever there. After a bit you start noticing stains, a little tear here and there. Till the wedding day comes around, it has lost its pureness, its whiteness, its beauty. Wouldn't you be a little hurt she didn't appreciate your gift enough? You are God's gift for the man he wants you to marry. Don't hurt him by exploiting that gift in secret before it's time. Treasure it in secrecy and take care of it. God will be delighted in you. You save yourself possible heartache by keeping your secret. You win a man by your inward ornaments. God will make him prejudiced to love you exactly how you're made. I don't care if you're a model or if you're not a model. He will love you prejudicedly and fiercely exactly like you're made. You win a man by your outward ornaments. You might lose him when your outward changes and you cannot keep it from changing. You get older, time marches on, you have children, your belly starts getting flabby and you start getting wrinkles. He might discover he doesn't like you and he might discover he doesn't like the inside ornaments in you either. You will never save a marriage by outward looks. It's the hearts and souls that knit and sew a marriage. Are you pursuing a downward trail of happiness by wanting others to notice your size, shape and body? It's like drugs. It doesn't satisfy and therefore gives you a craving for more. You go deeper and deeper into it until you have crushing results and lifelong regrets that you can never redo. Let's talk a little bit about modesty to women. Just because someone else is a woman does not give you the right to exploit your secret. I realize there is a slight difference. How much that difference is, I'm not going to go into detail. You're going to have to decide that for yourself. But I would like to encourage you as young princesses, keep yourself as a secret even from your girlfriends. I'm not saying you have to be absolutely every bit as modest as you are around men. But don't be a cause of a stumbling block of covetousness in another girl's heart. And just enjoy the thought of being a secret. Your girlfriend does not have to know everything. My sister and I grew up and I know we were a little extreme maybe. We were very conscious that we did not see each other without clothing and even to change ourselves in our underwear we'd turn our backs to each other. And it did not make the slightest difference in our friendship, let me assure you. I don't know if it would be impossible for any two sisters to be closer than my two sisters were. Or than my sister and I were. You don't need to exploit your secret in order to be close to somebody. Are we intimidating them? And we think, well it's just my friend, she never said anything like that to me, that she envies my body shape or anything like that. They do not tell you their deepest feelings or they're afraid you're not going to like them. Let's talk a little bit about makeup and jewelry. Good health and perfect cleanliness will bring a natural rosiness and beauty that paints cover up and they cannot compete with. There is something so refreshing about a radiant, clean countenance. As soon as you put paints over there, you just, you replace that innocent, fresh look with a look of hardness. You don't realize it sometimes. You think, well if my eyelashes would just be a little darker I would be prettier. You have no idea how much innocence you just erased from your eyes. You gave yourself a hard, cold look. And I kind of discovered that since we live in Lancaster. My eyes were so open already with all the flavors around here. It was really an adjustment to me, believe me, when we moved down here. And I saw these ladies and once in a while I would see a lady that had kind of this hard, cold look. But she had a veil and I kind of look at her, she looked so, she had so much the countenance of a worldly woman. And I just kind of studied her face and it was just kind of amazing to me. And you know, all of a sudden it dawned on me, it's her makeup. That's what's doing it. She's erasing that clean, clear look. And do not apologize for not using makeup to the world. You are truly like a breath of fresh air to them and you don't realize it. I've had a woman comment to us, girls, when she was around some Mennonite girls, she said, you are just like a breath of fresh air. Don't cover it up. Don't become like the world and lose that very gaze that is going to draw other people to Christ. It's your radiancy that is your tool to witness for Christ. Jewelry often puts a silly and vain look to your features that is not becoming to the princess. It cheapens the value of your radiant face. It does. Okay, let's talk about modesty at home a little bit. Some time ago, the brothers here had a meeting and they asked for a raise of hands of all the brethren that were aware of incest. Does everybody know what incest means? Incest means, it's a proper way of wording it. Okay. Incest means anything sexual taking place within the immediate family, with a father or with a brother. He asked all the brethren that are aware or know of a situation like that to raise their hands. Would you believe it in our circle, 50 men raised their hands, almost 50 men. Being modest in our home is important. We often think, well, I'll wear out my dresses. And there is a little bit of room for that maybe. But when is it right to be inconsistent, really? Do you believe in modesty if you're just modest when you go in, you're not modest when you're home? These things that these men knew about would never ever happen if girls and women and men would dress modestly and stay in their place. Leviticus 2017, and thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister, nor of thy father's sister. For he uncovers his near kin, they shall bear their iniquity. This is God's heart. Leviticus 2019 says, oh, okay. That was Leviticus 2019. And if you saw your uncle or your aunt's nakedness, you were punished for it. Leviticus 2017. It brings out that God cuts off a person from the tribes of Israel. If they only saw their siblings' nakedness, he hated it. Incest would never happen. If fathers, brothers, and sisters wouldn't have the capacity to lust. It is often not, it doesn't happen very often, but it can and it does happen. Are you strong enough to avoid anything that will give the devil a chance to plant a thought into your brother's mind, even if he would never consider carrying it out? Are you a tool of the devil? We think, well, I got to let my hair down in my home. I, you know, we can just relax. And it's true. There are certain things we can relax in, but we do not relax in the area of modesty with our brothers and with our father. How far you want to go with your sister? Ask your mother. She can give you some advice. And how far you want to go with your mother? That is up to you and your mother. Your mother did have you in her womb. And I realize there is a close relationship. I personally do not want my daughters to ever see each other naked after they're old enough that I quit bathing them together. I want them to have respect for their own body and respect for each other's body. And there's so much that happens and thoughts go through your mind and pressures that happen when people see each other. It's just not wise. It's just, you're avoiding so much and you are putting your respect in each other for each other. Another thing I really have a burden for, and this is swimsuits. A lot of us think it's okay to be immodest when we swim. Was Christ ever inconsistent in anything he did? Isn't he our role model? I'm not saying you can't go swimming and you can make some fairly modest swimsuits, but I do not advise boys and girls to go swimming together. Period. Because even if you wear modest swimsuits, they really cling to you as you come out of the body, as you come out of the water. But that stuff is creeping in. It is creeping into our circles. Girls go swimming with each other after a bit. I mean, the only difference between that and being naked practically is that they have a painted on swimsuit. It is very immodest. And they go to places they think, well, hopefully nobody comes, but there's a chance somebody would, but hopefully not. And if it is, well, I'm not responsible. You are responsible. If anybody sees you and lusts after you, take responsibility on yourself. It wasn't that person's fault that you were there. It's your fault. Your own feet took you there. My question to those that do is, why is immodesty okay sometimes and other times not? It's when we start becoming inconsistent that we start broadening these inconsistencies and we think, well, if it's okay when I go swimming, then it's okay to have this little bit in this area. And I truly feel sorry for you if you like to swim. Because I realize this is really a hard statement. But it is truth. I truly believe this. I feel that going swimming is no exception for modesty for you. And the thing is, if you do it as girlfriends or you get really used to it with your brothers or something, you know, after a bit your brothers or your sisters get married, and then it's just such a little step away, your in-laws, and they will go. They'll swim with you in their swimsuits. And you realize the man you are swimming with is absolutely no relation to you. He cannot but help make a mental statement or thought in his mind as to if you are good looking or goodly shaped. And these thoughts run through, even if they're totally victorious, are we going to let him battle with the thoughts? We shouldn't even let a man battle with the thoughts. Okay, let's talk about feminine attributes, things that enhance femininity or respect. One thing I would like to say to you, and especially with Bible School coming up, is how you move through a crowd of people. If there's a whole big crowd of people, girls sometimes tend to get kind of stiff, and they kind of go like this, you know, and they squeeze themselves between. And the furthest point out of them is their bust. How many of you know what I mean when I talk about the shock that goes through you when somebody hits your bust? There is just like a shock wave that goes through you. And a sure, readily know, it goes through the other person too. And when you're going here through Bible School, I would encourage you, it is very crowded, and it is hard not to sometimes bump where you're not supposed to. I would encourage you to put your arm over your chest as you move through. I've learned that already. In big crowds of people, I can move so much more easily, and at rest, if I put my arm in front of me, right over my bust as I walk, to hide that, to not give it a chance of bumping into something. And it, once again, it can, in a split second, give a boy a wrong thought, or give you a bad name if you're like this, trying to squeeze between people. Okay, let's talk about splayed legs. I should have a chair. Well, I can sit here, I guess. It is very unfeminine to sit like this. Besides, it's immodest. You can stand up if you can't see. If you sit with your legs far apart, and your skirt falls down between your legs, and your hands are in there, it's giving you a focal point right in an area where you don't want that. And also, when you sit, let your skirt be loose and feminine. Don't tighten it around you that your legs are very, very clearly defined, depending how you go. It's a little hard to do it with this one. Careless lounging, laying around on the floor in front of people, it puts you just a notch down in respect for other people, and they hardly realize it, and you hardly realize it, but it does work. And stretching in front of people, it's those things that a true feminine woman tries to avoid. It just puts a kind of a improper view of you, or just, it kind of gives you a mannish name, or not very feminine. And we need to strive to glory in our femininity, that Christ has given us to glory in being what He wants, and to glorify Him through it. Another thing I'd like to talk about is refined speech. Sometimes our friends put a lot of pressure on us young ladies, and after a bit, we are selling our femininity so cheap. We say words like, shoot, shucks, gosh, oh, you know, it just goes on and on. Are you actually willing to sell your femininity so cheap? That really puts, it just puts something less than the best in people's minds about your femininity. You just don't appear really feminine when you say a lot of loose words like that. Not only that, are you actually willing to totally override Jesus' teaching on idle words? That's a burden to me. Many people just think it's swearing, but He's talking about idle words, He's not just talking about swearing. There are many things that are not wrong in themselves. My goal for you is that you would look up to the heavens, and you would have the goal of being totally above reproach. Not going for anything that is questionable. Not because it's questionable. We don't look at those things. Good, better, best. Never let it rest till the good is better and the better best. And that's how we as princes do. We strive for the best we can imagine. We don't try to sit back and see what can I afford to do and what can't I. Put the highest goal in your mind of what you can be, and you strive for that. A note to the tender hearted. Modesty means moderate. A sailing ship of a dress can also attract undue attention. You relax under your authority, figures. Sometimes we get so conscious of modesty, we make so many inches and ruffles, and these things are good, but if we go overboard, we're drawing attention to our dress anyways. Do you know what I mean? It's just like, be a moderate in this. Be as modest as you can, but you don't have to wear a dress that's a foot out either side of you, because that draws attention too. A note to those who might not be virgins. I know that there are girls that might not be virgins. If you give that part of yourself to God, maybe you don't feel like even striving for this, because you feel like you've lost it already. God can make you that you feel like a virgin, whether you are one or not. He can cleanse your spirit. He can cleanse your heart to the extent that you have a total new start, and when you go to your marriage, you feel like a secret, and you feel like a virgin. There is nothing below God. I'm going to say something that is going to shock you, but to show you that I am serious about modesty. Within the last two weeks, a godless boy was watching a princess walk past, and he went like this. Oh, isn't that a hot one? I felt like my heart was breaking for hours afterwards. That princess is in this room. Are you selling your good name, your feminity so cheaply that the devil's servant, a godless young man, can gloat over you? This is serious. We think, well, I believe in modesty. It doesn't come close home. Just think about it. It does come close home. Reach for the best that you can possibly reach for. Well, thank you, Dora. If your heart wasn't challenged by any point, I wonder if you have a heart. So many wonderful points there. I had a couple thoughts I wanted to share just briefly. When Dora was speaking about hoes, something that we have discovered, and probably many of you have, if you shop in many of the stores around here, they have hoes by, if I'm not saying right, denier. It's the thickness of the hose, 20, 40, something like that. You can get hoes that are hoes, but they're thicker. They're not as thin. Some of them are called opaque. If you have a tendency toward being hippie, I find that hoes kind of hold you a little firmer, and that that can be a real positive, especially if you're wearing knit dresses, that the hose can keep you from jiggling, especially if you're a little heavier. I'm not saying you have to wear a hose. I know a lot of our young ladies wear just a panty that kind of holds them more. This mirror idea is excellent. You can also allow your mother to be your mirror, walk, and let her see. You do the same for her. How do I look from the back, the side, the different angles? Also, I wanted to mention on swimming, Dora, I love to swim. You said if you love to swim. I used to be a lifeguard in my life before I was a Christian, but we have found making a swim outfit out of denim, making it mid-calf, making it a culotte so it doesn't come up, we found you can swim very well, but we still don't get out of the water with boys in the water. We swim in a pond, and the water is not clear, but getting out, even denim still goes against the bottom, and it's just not like you'd like it to be. A blouse underneath the jumper, and it's actually as modest or more modest than what most people are wearing in the room today, but the sensitivity there. By the way, those magazines are such a bondage. I grew up with them and have suffered so much from them, but Dora, do you know that those women, the models who wear the jeans, they have a special machine that zips them into it because they can't possibly do it, and it's an electrical machine that gets them tight enough to reveal the hips that way. Many of those models have had their lower ribs taken out surgically so that they can appear that way, bust implants, exercise three hours a day, lather themselves with shiny stuff. It's so unreal. It's just not even practical to even think of it, comparing yourself. Okay. No, no. It's totally unfair. Do we have some questions? Did something come up in your mind that you would like to see discussed a little further? I had a question when Dora was talking about the length of a dress, and I like that a lot about your comment about curves and just the underside not showing. Lately, I've been thinking a lot about, well, the dress works fine until I'm going up the stairs, and then it's either dragging and getting dirty, or I realize I'm pulling it up, and then who's behind me as I'm kind of pulling it up? So the question was a general one to other people who have walked further with that and kind of have tips. What do we do with that? I want to say, first off today, I have on a dress that's about seven years old, and it's very long. I don't wear my dresses this long anymore for that very reason. When my church dresses become my medium dresses, become my everyday dresses, I found I couldn't, you know, I can't work in them if the skirt is real full because if your skirt isn't as full, it doesn't sweep the floor. But Dora, I appreciate that, too. Let me see up here. If you remember from Denny's teaching on the spirit of modesty, he was talking about the calf muscle here, and a harlot, actually the split came up so that that whole curve did show. And I thought that was a really good thought that Dora had about the underside of a bust and all because lots of people do have more curve than others, and it does make it more difficult. Does anybody have a thought about going up the stairs? Now, tell me. I have on a real long dress. Maybe you can just tell me. If I go up the stairs and I'm catching the front of my dress, the back is still long, right? It wasn't? So that would make a difference. If you're only catching a little bit here, that wouldn't. I'll do it over there. If you just catch this to avoid it, the back is still covered. Is that right? Is that clear? Dora, also what you said about Bible school, I thought if a young lady would carry her Bible like this, that would feel very natural and you wouldn't bump. I know that shock that goes through you. You said when you bump somebody you feel, oh my, this shouldn't have happened. Any more? What is that Western clothes she was talking about? We haven't seen a lot of Western clothes within our own congregation as much as some of the remnant churches are having trouble with it. I really appreciated what you shared, Dora, there about identifying with the lawless West. I thought that was so good. And who does our clothing associate with us? We would never wear a t-shirt of a rock group. I mean, we wouldn't because even if we get at a garage sale for a nickel, we wouldn't wear it because we don't believe what it's promoting. But Western clothing, Betty, there might be more in Hutterite circles from Montana in that area. It is a specific style that has like men's shirts have a point on both sides and vests, girls' vests, and I wanted to bring this out and please don't feel self-conscious if you have one on. The vests usually have big points and papers up, maybe little pockets. It looks, not denim itself, I'm not saying that I think denim is very practical and can be used fine, but this kind of denim has more trim, more outer stitching on top that emphasizes more curves and points and things. Any other thought on what's Western? Yeah, that's one thing. I was thinking mainly of the Western type of vests that come in and they are made in a way that it really enhances your breasts and it enhances your trim waist and it's so pointy and so, like you said, it's trimmed so excessively. And it's not only that, it's the look of such a denim pointy thing on top of a simple plain dress, it just doesn't go with the princess. Another thing I wanted to mention that I forgot about, um, after I sit down I think of everything I forgot, I wanted to mention about loose sleeves when it comes to hiding the chest area. Often our sleeves are so loose you can just look right in and see underwear and I think that's another check you should do that I wanted, oh I really wanted that on the tank, it's too bad, I wanted them to do a check when you go in front of the mirror, hold your arm out like this and see if you can zoom right in and see even the beginning of a swell or of your underwear, that is something to definitely avoid. And also the depth of your armhole, if your armhole is deeper and you have on a white or a beige blouse where you can see the undergarment, either it needs to be lined or you need to have a full slip or a camisole, is that what they call it, a little thing like that, on the points, I wanted to make that. When you have points, some years ago, there may be still some around, but there came a dress style that pointed directly to the holiest of holies, do you remember? The dresses, they were kind of tapered in and then they were full, they were very full, but the point came right to the most private part of your body. I remember my preacher back home had a message one time, he had seen a girl at an airport and she had a tattoo, she had on hip hugger pants and she had a tattoo with a zipper from here down. I mean it was just, come on, you know, the invitation was very clear, but again it was drawing eyes to that part of your body and of course we don't want to do that. Anything else? This is in regards to when you were walking up the stairs and pulling your skirt up in the front it looked fine from the back, but I think part of that too is because of the fullness of your skirt. If you have a more narrow skirt and you pull it up in the front, it's going to come up in the back also, and be tighter against your legs as you pull it up. So it sounds like we do each other a great favor if we will do such things in front of our husbands and say, how does this look at this angle, is it fine? Because you really can, Laureen, the dress she had, when she was standing completely still it was fine, but I can't imagine her making much movement without, you know, jiggling in that or just revealing herself, and we don't stand perfectly still. I was thankful for the encouragement she had for the youth girls that might not be virgins or might feel less than pure. Just a word of encouragement to them. If they are princesses, they are justified, and justified means just as if it had never happened, and that's the way God looks at you. Anyone else? I just had a question. I was wondering how short is sleeves that are too short? I mean, I was making a dress the other day and I was wondering how short was... Anyone have a specific thought on how short is too short? I wonder again if shortness would also have to do with tightness, you know, that if the two wouldn't go together, you know, that you have to watch if it's full and short, if it's the same as if it's full and too tight. You'll notice in style, quote, and I mean plain style, you'll see in... I often go by weddings because girls often make their bridal party and their wedding dress with what's more in style at that time among their peers, and you'll see that dresses are becoming more tapered, more straight, with not a gather here, and depending on your material, you know, that can get really kind of, you know, the roundness of your shoulder certainly is not essential as the roundness of your bust, but I think that there can be some appeal in that if it doesn't have any fullness there and depending on the kind of material. And truthfully, as women get older and their arms are loose, it's not even attractive, you know, to have it that way. Anyone have a thought on length of sleeve? And probably, again, with a sleeve would be, you know, not making it, maybe with a lot of accessory to it, you know, not fancying it up, which might be a temptation, or making 10 different kinds of sleeves. Do you really need 10 different kinds of sleeves? You know, you find a basic pattern and why isn't it just fine? Why do we have to make a thick cuff this time and a thin cuff this time and a ruffle this time? I don't know. I think that leads to discontent. I just have a question. I was also wondering about the length of the sleeve, but when I think of modesty, if we make the sleeves really, really short, what are we suggesting? That's just a thought. Also, this summer, most of my sleeves I put elastic at the end, and my daughter made me a dress, which she gets more sewing done than I do, which I appreciate, and I told her I didn't want anything at the end of the sleeve, and it was a short, I mean, it came to the elbows, but one day, as we were sitting at the table, I reached my arm out, and my husband just said, oh, and he could see right down to my armpit, and I don't know, he didn't say much, but it was almost like he just kind of went, oh, and I thought, wow, you know, and I haven't been real comfortable with that dress, and now just hearing Dora speak about it, it's like, for myself, it's just time to go home and fix that dress, and I think, I don't know, I've also just seen girls with, and I haven't seen it in our circles, but with their sleeves real loose, and I've seen them roll them all the way up to their shoulders, and what is that suggesting? It's a sleeveless dress, and is that just part of uncovering myself? Just a thought. I think that's a real good balance, and again, you would have the curve of your muscle here, you know, again, the roundness of that, where if it comes all the way down, I personally would never go further than right above the elbow, you know, right to the elbow. Actually, I like it if you can pull it below the elbow and push it above the elbow, you know, I like it, because then it's loose, and the elastic is not tight, and it's full. When I went to Africa, we cut off some sleeves, and we, for that very reason, had to taper it at the bottom, so that it wouldn't, so she couldn't see underneath the looseness under the arm. I think that's a good question. Anything else? I'm getting my exercise. Another nice curve that young ladies have is from the side, from your arm out to the front of your bust, and a lot of these knit tops that are coming in that are tight, and people will wear them on their jumpers, and I've seen them around. You'd have to wear a vest that goes all the way back to your arm to hide that nice bump that's there, which some of us have a nicer one than others, and I think those who have a nicer one are more responsible. So, look at yourself from the side in the mirror, too, with your blouses, and see if there's not too nice of something showing there. Good point. That was one thing I wanted to bring out on the mannequin, but I didn't have a jumper that even fitted that. I wanted to put a t-shirt type of top on, like a pullover or something, and those are fine if you want to have your jumper high enough in the side and high enough in the top, but what we can easily do is let the sleeve cut down, and even though you look perfectly modest from the front, from the side, I mean, that t-shirt is just hugging over your chest area, and that was something I wanted to bring out and I had forgotten about. T-shirts remind me also, this summer, there were lots of different activities going on. Some that I heard about, some Mennonite people had a swimming pool. Well, a swimming pool, the water is very clear, and so the level of modesty, what you are is what would be there, and they were talking about, they wear bathing suits with a t-shirt over top. Now, in my day, back in the 70s, we had what you called wet t-shirt contests, and of course they were vulgar, but the idea was who looks the best in a wet t-shirt. Well, what did they mean by who looks the best in a wet t-shirt? Obviously, a wet t-shirt totally clings to you, and so putting a t-shirt over a bathing suit would not be acceptable in my mind at all for swimming. The material that it's out of, when it's wet, you could just see right through it, so I wouldn't feel that that was acceptable. It wasn't touched on at all, but I have battled in my mind about lace and ruffles. When I was growing up, that was still a sign of feminine, but it's also that of attraction, so I just wondered what other people thought about that, or could give me some clarity from my own heart in knowing how to talk about it with my girls. I'd like some input from some others, maybe some others who grew up wearing lace and ruffles, maybe some who didn't, but who have cautions, and why you have cautions, why it's considered an extra and maybe an unwise practice. Someone willing to share? I was also wondering about the ruffle thing, because I made a jumper once that was too short, and I went in front of the mirror, and I was like, ew, and so I put a pleated ruffle on it, and there was a guy sitting in our house for Bible school, and he said, I like that ruffle one, he said, because I live with people that sew, and I know why you put that on, to be modest. So as I put it on to be modest, I didn't want to be showy, but is it can be considered as a modesty thing or as a showy thing? Again, I think the spirit behind it what will happen is, do you make the next one that way when you have the opportunity to make it longer? And I'm not saying you, you know, I'm saying to someone else, will it be a stumbling block to someone else because they like it? I think depending on how it was done, I know Esther is going through a growing spurt, and we just, we look at the length, and we say, how could this be this length? We just made this dress three months ago, and we try to make them so that they'll last a while. Is there a way, peaceably, that doesn't offend each other? How do the rest of you feel when you would see that? Does it cause you a stumble, or do you realize that is there on purpose for modesty? What's your first thought? A lot of sisters have gone to a, what do you call it, a blouse slip, and that seems to work really well. I was thinking something that can be done on a little girl's dress, probably easier, if it is short. When material fades, it's difficult because you have to wash it a few times in order to make it longer. Sometimes you can put the insert in here and then put the material on the bottom of it, like let's say the material might not match, or you could, if you can find the material again, you can make a, like a grow tuck. Do you know what a grow tuck is? You know, you can camouflage that by adding more material of the same, but it, you know, it just, it doesn't have a showy appearance, at least I don't think that it does. You know, let's say this is the bottom of my skirt, a little exaggerated there, then you're putting the other material onto it underneath, so it has a, even if you didn't ruffle it so much, I don't think it would look showy. You know, if you obviously added it for length and not for flounce, I think it would make a lot difference, and obviously that young man could tell why you had done it, so it, it must, I don't know the particular garment you're talking about, but it must have not looked showy to him, which I appreciate. So, so many times the issues are not black and white, and we have to be careful in judging that we not look at somebody, why did they do that? If you really do have a concern about something that a sister is wearing, I've been on the opposite side so often, because of being ministry, people will come to us and say, I really think somebody ought to talk to them. You know, that's really not scriptural. You should be the one that goes and talks to them. It shouldn't come, the ministry shouldn't have to go and say, well, several people have come to me about your dress. Do you know how much that hurt? Several people came to you, they didn't tell me. That is so crushing. We need to be honest enough and pure enough in our heart, if we really care about something and aren't jealous, but that we really have a concern, that we will go to them and say, would you consider? So, I think there was another hand here. I was just going to relate an experience that a sister in our church had. She got saved several years ago and she had this denim jumper that she thought was too, she used to wear it at first when she was saved to come to church, and then she came around and she had about three inch ruffle on that was a different color, and then she put just a little lace, because the jumper had been washed out, the ruffle was not matching, even though they were both denim, she put a little lace around there to kind of hide it, and then, I'm not sure how many months later, she came around with another ruffle. As she progressed in her sanctification, her convictions became deeper. Now, she comes around with this double ruffled denim skirt, and someone not knowing her motive for doing it said something to her that, you know, the lace that she put on, so she came to me in tears and said, what do I do? I think it depends a lot on our motive. The truth is, not many of us are so poor or so strapped that we cannot make another dress. Maybe it won't be four or five dollar a yard material, but there are around here, there are so many times you can get material for a dollar or two a yard, and maybe you'll have to keep it for a while to church dresses. It doesn't matter, maybe only even one, but it would be far better to have something that would not cause question or stumbling in somebody else. Dora spoke about garage sales yesterday, mentioned buying and sewing your clothes. I have a lot of caution about buying clothing at garage sales, because many times it causes us to compromise. Well, it's got a little bit of this on it. I wouldn't put that on it, but you know, it only cost me a quarter. Well, the next person who's really attracted to that, I would just have caution on that. I'd be very careful, you know, like in this case. You know, she was sincere, and it probably wounded her, but I'm sure she had an open heart. She was able to receive and understand where somebody else was coming from, because we all are coming from different places, and God bless her for her effort. The one thing that I think was a struggle for me when we first came here is that I came from a different background, and many of the people who were raised plain understood simple things that weren't simple to me, and you know, seeing the lace or the ruffles or certain buttons or different things like that, I may have done things innocently not understanding, and I think it's good as sisters that we do have open communication and maybe relate some of these things to people coming in that may not understand, and they really have a heart to want to do what's right, but they just truly don't understand why we do things this way or why we don't do things this way, and I know it took me a long time to understand some things, and and I took a lot of time to just pray and ask the Lord, and even through prayer some things just weren't really clear, so I'm thankful for this teaching, and thank you Dora for taking the time and all the studying that you did, and I really appreciate it. I'm also wondering what does it mean by love covers a multitude of sin? Even if that lady didn't, she did it, I'm sure to say she wanted that dress longer. She didn't want to sew a different one and go buy and run and buy one. It was easier just to patch on, and there's nothing sinful about that. Even if she put lace on, why don't people look at the heart of the lady more than on her dress? Because we don't live in an ideal world. I mean, I agree we should cover it, but Betty, the caution is for everyone else. To that sister, yes, but to the next one asking, let's not encourage them to do it if they have a choice. You know, let's try not to make the mistake where you have to cover it, because in speaking with different churches across the country where they have these very things coming in, one week a girl shows up with a split in her skirt. Well, she got it at a garage sale or whatever, and it's not real, real bad. Next week, three girls have splits, and they're a little bit longer. Of course, the whole goal is that we walk in the spirit of love, that we walk in grace, we walk in righteousness, where we're not fulfilled these lusts, but God gives us authority and ministry to help guide some of these things, because left to ourselves, I'm afraid we are pretty undiscerning about some of these things. So yes, let us as individuals love and not judge that she did something wrong and the motive behind to put the ruffle. Let's judge it right, but let's be careful that we answer it that way also and say why we did what we did so it is clear to others. I apologize. I keep more and more these questions are coming. I realized what I missed on my notes going back and forth so much. But there was one thing I wanted to bring out is our primary goal in dressing, whether it is in how our clothing fits over us, whether it is in the largeness or smallness of the print, or whether it's a solid dress. Sometimes we feel good and think, well, I just wear solids, or others feel good, well, I just wear tiny prints, our primary goal is to wear something that in a crowd of people you don't stick out. I have a burden. Some people say, well, I just believe in little prints, and this is not wrong, believing in little prints. I'm not trying to do that. I'm trying to just show the other side of the coin. Then these people come with bright little prints. Your primary goal as a princess is to wear something that is not shocking or outstanding. I mean, even a dark, solid black dress, your eyes are just drawn to it. Some people think that's the plainest color you can wear. Our goal is to be as inconspicuous as we can be. I realize that's kind of a statement, but it's just to be inconspicuous and not noticeable, not have people's eyes just zoom towards you wherever you are in a group. Whether it's bright print, small print, big print, small print, that's the spirit of the princess, it's not to be noticed. And one thing that I want to bring in about my little girls is that there are some things that are so beautiful in my little girls' hair, but I have noticed if I go to the store, maybe I can handle it as a mother, and maybe, I don't know, but people make comments that are absolutely anything but what little girls should hear. It starts building in them, and I have just decided already the most simple way I can do it, I should do it, so that people are not drawn to this thing and giving her the attitude of wanting attention. Just a note on those little girls' hair. I heard a story about what was the lady who was speaking about mothers and talking to mothers. She had a friend who had a little girl with very beautiful hair, and this little girl had heard many times how beautiful her hair were, and one day they went to a restaurant and the waitress didn't make any comment about her hair, and the little girl looked at her and she said, do you like my hair? So, you know, and I know that I have a sister-in-law who had, when her, she has a daughter with very pretty red hair, dark, dark red hair, and when she was younger she got many comments on her hair, and to the point where my sister-in-law felt she really needed to cover it up because the little girl was becoming vain of her hair. I know that when you put a little girl's hair up in a way that is more drawn away from the face, you also draw to their pure countenance, which is just so precious. One thought I had in relation to sewing, I face this now that I'm teaching my daughters to sew, and, you know, we have the question about the lace and the ruffles, and, you know, the young girls come along and they have a lot more ideas, you know, on how to do the dresses. I know each of us need to be under our husband's umbrella of authority in this, you know, Daddy, how do you want our dresses to be? And if we can come to a place where Daddy says, you know, this is the style that we're going to wear, and that Mom and the daughters, we fit into that, you know, I have to think, you know, we have quite a bit of liberty in our circles as far as this style or that, but, you know, we can, it can be a pitfall because we can be using our creativity to come up with all these beautiful, delightful, nice, and there's probably nothing wrong with them, but the thing I feel that is really wrong is the time, the effort, all those things we're putting into creating this, and then, you know, a new dress, well, how should we make it? Should we do it like this or this? And what are we putting into our daughters? Where we could put the matter to rest and say, you know, we're going to make modest dresses and we're going to basically fit with this pattern, you know, it'll be different for different families, but that we can rest in that and bring our daughters a sense of contentment like we were hearing, and then with the frills and the lace and all that, you know, if we're trying to see what we can put on, well, what is the reason behind it, you know, what is our motive? I think that's good, and Dora, the points you're making about modesty with each other, us women, we don't, we're not at each other's homes to where we would ever be undressing, but times like Bible school and that, I think it's also good to recognize that our girls' underclothing should be very plain, should be very simple and practical. You buy some wild, let's say, bikini panties for a teenage girl to wear. Why in the world do you want her to wear panties like that? For one thing, the line shows much easier on clothing. You can see it. She might look at herself in the mirror where she wouldn't be tempted to in plain cotton underclothing. The bras should be practical and they should do their job. They should be supportive, especially if she has some bust. We've had youth girls who went to Africa with the teens, and there was some actual flaunting in these little t-shirt nighties. Now, it's very, very hot there, but with cutesy underclothes and little t-shirt tops, and they kind of were flaunting, and I didn't approve or appreciate those reports, and I hope that it's far removed as we look to another Bible school season, that you girls do cover yourself and try to be modest. I'm amazed, some of the young ladies we've had at our house, how they can get dressed in a room full of people, and you think, how did they do that? Because they never showed any skin. They've learned to flip their dress over and take their nightgown off. I think that's wonderful. I think that that's important, that if you're going to sit around and eat popcorn in the evening, that you be totally covered, that there not be any temptation. That's the issue we didn't deal on a lot, and I don't want to, but the issues of incest, those are very, very painful, damning issues. Anyone else? Are we ready to break for lunch? You talked about underclothes. How much does it matter if slip straps and bra straps show through the material in the back? I guess it depends on what you're desiring to do. Many times, girls and young ladies are going to style a pattern where there's only a double layer in the front. It has a vest front, looks very nice, it's loose, but the back, depending on the color of the material or the tightness, shows very clearly the line. Why would you want to draw attention to your bra, whether it's thick or thin, or the straps, or if you're a little bit heavy, it draws bumps from the back. I can't see that our undergarments should ever show for any reason, and some materials, you have to be extra careful about that because some of them, even in a double layer, it can still show. Does anybody disagree with that thought, that it's okay for your straps to show or that we shouldn't be careful about that? I think you have to be careful also with even your jumpers, not just the blouse, but if your jumper neckline is too low and you're showing flesh or bra straps through that. On behalf of our brothers, when we divided the churches, we were talking about, oh, it would be fun to just sit as families, and we had a couple in our home that day, and he said, oh, I don't want to do that, and we said, well, could you share why? And he said, I struggle so much sitting behind sisters and seeing things that they don't know that I can see, and he comes from a life of a difficult past, and I don't think we really realized what we were doing to them. Half the time, you know, you see a sister's extra bumps or lumps, and you say, she doesn't know how she looks, and you forget about it, but they don't think of it that way, and that's the reason we're thinking. On that line, when you have a dress that's maybe a pastel color, when you bend forward, even just to get a songbook, this strip in here between your slip and your double layer, I see it all the time. You know, you can see a line of underclothing there and a strip of flesh that I know nobody intends to be showing. That's why many have gone to a vest or something over where that line is not so distinct. I just wanted to add also that if you show the strap, it's a suggestive thing, and that's worse than the actual strap. Another thing that has been a concern to us as far as showing underclothes with some of the knit materials, especially with the lighter colors, sometimes you can see the panty lines, even the ones, I mean, not just up top, the ones underneath, and of course that's very suggestive, too. And have any of you purchased any of these? I think I have them on. I think they're called the best fitting panty in the world or something. Anyway, they're Walmart, but they're very comfortable, but they have a thicker ridge here. And sometimes at home, oh, you know, and you realize this is showing a cotton slip helps a lot. The thinner nylon slips just don't provide any break in that. One more thing I wanted to mention was as far as you're talking about the tightness of the backs is it doesn't matter what style you're making it. If you're making it with a jumper or with a cape or with a simple back, I think the back should be loose, not tight against the back, because you can still pretty well define a girl's shape. If she's modest in the front and you see how far her bust comes out and she turns around and you see how small her waist is, you can pretty well define how that girl is shaped. When I was talking about seeing the panty lines, what we had seen was not a tight skirt. It was a full skirt, but it was a thin, clingy material. And so even though there was fullness, it was clingy enough that you could still see. Have you ever gotten home on a Sunday and realized that you should have had two slips on or that your slip wasn't? We want to give grace. I'm sure that's happened to me. I don't know if it's happened to you, and I acknowledge that, and I want to be more careful about that. And while we're talking about undergarments, the slip being too short, if you have a dress on that's lighter colored and the slip only comes to the knee and you can see all the space, again, the suggestion of the legs moving underneath is more attractive than a mini skirt itself. I guess another thing I wanted to bring out that I've just seen lately was when we go out through the back doors and we have a light colored dress and a thin slip, you can see the whole way up to the top of the legs. And I've found it helpful to put a shadow panel on the front or on the back, even if you don't want to make the slip double the whole way around. That really is a benefit. Do many of you get your slips from Flo Ann, where they make slips? Do any of you get slips there? I went to Flo Ann pleading for a thicker slip with more gathers, and she just laughed and said, well, women don't want that because it makes them look fat. And I thought, she is making totally for the Mennonite community, and it's right. It's our pride. We don't want to look fat. And it does make us look bigger. There's no doubt that it does. But again, Adora, you had mentioned, I don't know if you were going to in this session, about weight. With us ladies, as we get bigger, when you're nursing a baby and your bust is bigger, you have to make allotments for that. When you're pregnant, you have to make allotments for that. But we can't excuse it, that we've gained weight. If you've gained weight, and you don't want to be where you are, well then, you know, hopefully you can seek to get some help on that issue. But temporarily, wear a vest, wear a sweater. I hide behind my sweater and vest many times. If I don't feel my dress is quite what I would like it to be, or if because I'm heavier, it hides a multitude of sins. I do have a young person that struggle with impure feelings by the way they dress. And I think it's important how we even dress in our nightclothes personally. It can stir impure feelings in our own hearts. And that we would struggle with wrong thoughts or wrong feelings because of the way we dress. I think we should be concerned about how others see us, and how we dress. Think and feel and things that stirs in their minds, but we must also be concerned about ourselves. Again, that's why I think that underclothes is so important because the privacy of a girl's own bedroom. We don't want her, you know, admiring and looking at, you know, lace and things that make them look more attractive in their underclothes. It's not the season of life for that at all. Okay, one thing I wanted to mention in this session was that references made to body parts were being referred to a mannequin we used to bring out pointers. We used a mannequin to bring out modesty pointers. And another thing was during the first session I brought out the need of the accepting the body that God gave us, and of the danger that it becomes once we begin to focus on it and change it. Some girls seem to believe that they can handle it and never realize how the spirit of a harlot can get a hold of them. They also do not realize how that spirit gets transferred and strengthened through generations. One girl may merely think a lot of her appearance, whether it's the perfect form or not. This girl's daughter progresses to self-consciousness to the degree of bulimia or anorexic. The granddaughter goes on to become a fornicator and the great granddaughter to an adulterer or harlot. This does and has happened, and I plead with you to find your fulfillment in Christ and break this chain.