In this sermon, the speaker discusses the value of simple plans of the Gospel, such as the Royal Root to Heaven through Romans, the four spiritual laws, and the ABC of salvation. These plans provide a logical sequence and help Christian workers have a clear and easy explanation of the Gospel. However, the speaker also points out that these systematized ways of evangelism can be a weakness as they may not address the individual needs, backgrounds, and education of each person. The sermon also touches on the tension between the sovereignty of God and the free will of humans, as well as the place of signs and wonders in evangelism.

The moment you begin to tell stories, you get people's attention. It's remarkable. If you give them theology, or if you just start to make the sort of things that they're expecting, they'll basically do what they were doing until they reach their convenient stopping point. If you interest them, stop immediately. And it's one of the great secrets of preaching, of course. Give them some story, or a question. I remember Becky Manley Pippett said that Jesus was always asking questions and telling stories. And she contrasted that with the way we preach so often. Jesus held huge crowds. I mean, they would risk going without supper in order to listen to him. Because he was so fascinating. But he told stories. Let's pray. Our Father, help us in our imaginations, in our understanding, and in those secret places of our heart where you, the living God, dwell, and where we respond to you. Help us this afternoon, and the other seminars. For Jesus' sake. Amen. The lecturer, just to put you out of your misery, and to grab you with the same technique twice, used to walk in, and whatever people there were there, or whether there was nobody there, he would simply walk in, open his notes, and begin. Even if there was nobody there. And some days, I tell you, at this university, you know, a nine o'clock in the morning lecture, nobody would be there. But he would deliver his entire lecture for the time allotted to an empty room, and then go. Get paid for it. One or two people would come in late, and catch what they, you know, what was left. Occasionally someone would rise up from the benches at the back where he'd been sleeping, and listen. But I thought of just simply coming in and starting talking. Decided not to. Now, we looked, we were just looking at some common obstacles to conversion. Then, I want to finish that, I've got three more. Then Peter's going to talk a little bit about the value of simple plans of the gospel. The royal route to heaven, through Romans, you see. Chapter three, chapter six, chapter ten, et cetera. Or the four spiritual laws, or the ABCs of salvation. The value of those, or not, as the case may be. And then, he was going to talk about the tension that we sometimes have between the sovereignty of God, and the free will of the human individual. And then we wondered about tiptoeing into a dangerous minefield, and raising the whole question of the place of signs and wonders in evangelism. We tossed for it, and I lost. We don't have a great deal to say, but we wondered about raising it, because you may be meeting folk in your churches who say that there definitely ought to be an element of healing in evangelism, casting out demons in evangelism, et cetera. And we'd like to know what you think about that. And then we've got various other things that we'll squeeze in if we can. Something on following up after preaching evangelism. Something on follow-up in general. Whether we should have goals, personally. Should I see a number of people come to Christ in twelve months, or whatever. Any value in that? And then we were even thinking of you doing something, after coffee probably. Something very exciting, which we will tell you about after coffee. Supposing somebody says to you, you've been witnessing to them, you've got them interested, they're thirsty, they're beginning to understand a bit, you've been able to get some scripture across, the bridge of friendship is built, all these things, and then you ask them, look, is there any good reason why you shouldn't become a Christian, right? And they say to you, well, you know, let me tell you something. I tried this once, when I was thirteen, twelve, and it didn't work. I understand all that you say, but I've been let down. I admire your sincerity, but I'm not sure that I'm willing to try it again. And they often say try it. You see, if they're talking about it, they're still not yet ready to be pushed, because they haven't met the Lord. When they begin to talk personally about Him, then you've moved a bit further. Listen for those little keys. But what about someone who says, you know, they've had a bad experience in the past? Well, it's an opportunity for you to explain the gospel again, that it is not just turning over a new leaf, as we say, trying new rules, but it's the coming into a relationship. And a relationship is not the same as rules. A relationship is a living thing. It grows, or it dies. Relationships are going forward or backward, but very seldom just staying still. If you said to me, now, are you married? And I said to you, well, you know, I pay the milk bill every Friday. I try to be at home for my preaching one weekend every month. There do seem to be children at the breakfast table when I come down in the morning. I suppose I'm married, now you've come to mention it. What would you think of that as a reply? Crazy? I am married, yes, you ought to expect a smile on my face, a little sparkle in my eyes. I'm thinking of the dear lady, you see. There's a relationship, you can see something living there. And we need to go over that again with people. Did they just try to try harder? Or did a relationship begin? And admit. I mean, you may be wanting to, you know, do some evangelism, get a scalp, but it may be that they did become a Christian years ago when they were 13, when they thought they did. And it's just that the relationship has never grown. A phrase I sometimes use, it's not original to me, is that, well, maybe they did pencil in some sort of decision. But now, now that they've grown on a bit, an opportunity to ink it in. Because pencil fades quickly in the sunlight, doesn't it? Opportunity to write it again in ink, to begin again a relationship that's going to grow. So, that question, I've tried it and it didn't work, enables you to explain that there's a relationship, they may have started, maybe for reasons that they know about, it didn't grow, or maybe they didn't really understand the gospel in the first place. Simply give it to them again. And then say, now, do you understand? And they may say, yes. And then, don't say, right, on your knees, boy, on your knees, head down, hands together, eyes closed. Say, okay, just to make sure you've really got what I'm saying, supposing our roles were reversed, supposing I'd come to see you this afternoon, instead of you coming to see me, and I'd asked you, you know, how can I come to know God for myself? What would you say? And you get them to explain the gospel back to you. And that will do two things. It will very quickly tell you whether they understand it or not. You know, if they start saying to you, well, you know, you've got to go to this particular church down on such and such a street, because there they've got a real warm, lively meeting, and if you join that and try so much harder in life and read your Bible every day, then you'll become a Christian. Then you know that they haven't grasped the gospel. If they have, just the very act of explaining it over to you will actually confirm it in their heart. Sometimes people, when they're first invited to explain the gospel to someone, it dawns on them for themselves. I suppose you've heard of preachers. There was a man, what was he called? Grimshaw? Years ago in England, a preacher in the Church of England who used to try and preach, you know, from the Bible. And suddenly, in the middle of one meeting, as he was preaching, he got converted. And a man at the back said, Hallelujah! Pastors got converted! They suddenly sensed, you know, he was taking off. Martin Lloyd-Jones, his wife, got converted by her own account, years after they got married, under the preaching of her own husband. Hearing the gospel again and again, and an opportunity to explain it yourself, can sometimes deepen it. That's something to say. I think of my piano tuner. I told you some years ago about how we got our piano. Great answer to my daughter's faith. Well, with the piano goes a piano tuner. And during these past few months, we've seen the piano tuner get converted. He comes round every six months to tune the thing. And I sit and have a natter with him while he's doing it. Because he can't go away. He's got to stand round the back of the thing and twiddle the thing. Pong! Pong! And I say, Shall I do the pongs for you? And then we chat, you see, over the piano. And he's been so mixed up. He's tried this church and that church and the other. Terrible. Been to Billy Graham, can't stand him. Listened to Louis Palau, thinks he's dreadful. Problems in his marriage. I haven't got time to tell you about the details of Paul. But he's started coming along to our church, which is a very ordinary, down-to-earth church. A service of just one hour on a Sunday morning. And he started sitting at the back, listening. And then bringing his kids. And then his wife comes. And not yet converted, you see, for weeks and weeks and weeks of this. And then one day, I think I was speaking at a baptism service or something. And I offered at the end a booklet. Anyone who feels that perhaps the moment for them has come to get to the bottom of what it means to be a Christian. And to find God real for themselves. Would they like to come and ask me for one of these booklets? Now, he's rejected these booklets when I've offered them to him at home. And he knows that he has. So it was quite a cost for him to come up at the end of this service and say, Could I have one of those things called Come Follow Me? And he's taken it. And I believe the man is converted. But it has taken time to come from bad experiences in the past. Hearing the gospel again and again so that he's got it really clear. And he's met some people that he trusts a bit. I think he's there. Now that happened only just before I came away on the summer campaign. So I'm looking forward to seeing how Paul's getting on. Or not, as the case may be. I'll find out when I get back. But I do believe that he's probably met the Lord. Supposing somebody says to you, it's another objection, I admire what you say. I'd love to become a Christian. And I do so admire you. Watch out for these guys. But you know, I just couldn't keep it up. If I became a Christian, I'm sure I couldn't keep it up. What do you say to them? No problem. You just smile broadly and agree immediately. Right. Well done. You couldn't. You've got it. You couldn't keep it up yourself. So pleased you understand that. But this is the whole secret of what being a Christian is. It's not you trying to try harder and keep rules. It's Jesus himself coming into your life and taking over. So that you begin to recognise his voice from amongst all the thousands of other voices that you hear. You begin to have his power and experience him changing you. So you agree that they can't keep it up. And then you turn their mind to the power of Christ dwelling in their life. And that will be a new thing. And they can't know what that is until it's actually happened. I have another fellow who's become a Christian in the last few months at home. He's a carpenter who's been putting up some shelves in our house. And we've started some men's breakfast. We have a monthly breakfast meeting for men in a hotel. Eight o'clock on a Saturday morning. So that it's not going to take the men away from their families very much. Because many busy businessmen, you know, they've got a conscience about how much time they spend away from their family. So often it's no good arranging things in another evening of the week. So we have eight o'clock Saturday morning. We take over a local hotel and they prepare a nice British bacon and eggs breakfast. And each Christian who comes brings a non-Christian. Or more if he wants to. And he pays for them. And I took this carpenter chap along. Ron his name is. And he listened very carefully to the gospel. And then the moment the meeting was over, Sorry, got to go. Thanks very much. Gone. Well, something's gone in, you see. And like a farmer, you don't expect the seed to, you know, the moment you've dropped it in and turned around, it doesn't go whoop, like that. You leave it and you wait. And I was in touch with him again, you know, needed some more carpentry work doing. And then his wife started coming to the church. And then she got very interested. But I don't think she was a Christian. Then there was talk about people getting baptised. And his wife was interested. Would I come round and explain it all to him? So I went round. But he picked a night when his wife wasn't there for me to explain baptism. And I went through what it signified. Into the water and out. The end of the old life, the beginning of the new life. A new life under new management. Christ actually coming and dwelling now, raising you up to newness of life by the power of God. And we looked at Romans 6 and we looked at various verses on baptism. 1 Corinthians 10 and 1 Peter 3 and so on. And with the picture of old dead, burial, new life started. He suddenly saw what it meant to become a Christian. And all this business about, well it's alright for you church goers, but I couldn't keep it up. It died. Just there. With scripture. And Ron I think is now, well I know he's a Christian for sure, he actually wanted to get baptised then three weeks later. It's his wife I'm still not sure about. She's taking her time a bit. So you get that? If people say I can't keep it up, agree. Agree with as much as you can with a non-Christian. And turn their eyes immediately to the Lord. Supposing people will say, well you know, I'm just afraid of what my friends will think. You'll get this more with younger people. Teenagers. They may not admit it, but that may well be the secret. I'm afraid of what other folks will think. Encourage them in a friendly way to, don't imagine that they have to become like you. They don't have to be turned immediately overnight into some bible thumping evangelist. They are themselves. Their friends need Christ just as much as they do. They're not asked to buy some big black bible and beat their friends over the head with it. But to be real with God, and to stay in touch with their friends. For the Lord is calling them to follow him, as he did disciples. Leave the nets and follow. Don't push folk like that. Let them count the cost. Jesus in the closing verses of Luke chapter 9 from verse 57 down to 62 in that chapter, you remember? There were people there that said, let me first say goodbye to my family. Let me go bury my dead. And they didn't come. And Jesus didn't hang around pleading for them. He let them face the cost. They probably came later, you know. Let folk face cost. Those are some of the commonest obstacles to conversion. The whole business of the problem of suffering I don't want to get into. We dealt with that three times during the summer campaigns. We can talk about it privately afterwards. It's the most common intellectual obstacle to the gospel. It's also one of the easiest to take folk from and lead them to the cross. Where you begin to see how God himself is not a disinterested observer, but has come and suffered. He suffered to make us part of the answer to the problem of suffering rather than continuing on as part of the problem ourselves. But you can ponder that. Now, Peter. Unless you have some questions. Peter. Strengths and weaknesses of particular plans of evangelism, systems of witnessing. I'm sure you'd all agree that Campus Crusade, by producing four spiritual laws, have encouraged tens of thousands of Christians to get into witnessing who probably would not have done so or would have not done so so quickly or so easily as they have. I think that's one of the great strengths of systematic plans of witnessing. It does help young believers or believers who would struggle in this area of witness. It does help them to get started. It gives them something simple to work with. Second strength is that it can keep a conversation on the track. The beautiful thing about these spiritual laws, of course, is that there's a logical sequence to the laws and the conversation can be kept on the track rather than going off into a hundred different directions on the way. It also, I think, does help the Christian worker to have a clear, simple, explanation, presentation of the gospel in his mind. He's confident as he goes into a conversation that he can at least explain the gospel as he understands it in an easy way. Those, I think, are the strengths. Helps young believers to get going, keeps the conversation on the track and it gives you a cogent, simple idea of the gospel in your own mind. There are, however, in my opinion, some real weaknesses. We were stressing this morning how if we're going to be sensitive Christian workers we must treat every person with individual respect. And the problem with these systematized ways of evangelism is that they tend to make you deal with every person, whatever his need, whatever his background, whatever his education. They tend to make you deal with every person in a similar way. If you just take two of the most popular systems of God loves you simple plan for your life. So it starts with the love of God. And Nigel was reminding us this morning that many, many people tend to need to start much further back than that. So with many people the four spiritual laws would be too far down the line to really scratch where they're reaching. If you take the ABC of evangelism I don't know how you do it, different people do it. Starts with many people admit your sin. Now again, from what I was saying this morning I think for many people that's just too far down the line because they don't really understand what sin is. And if you're going to use that system you're going to have to really explain a lot as you go along. Time magazine, a number of years ago now, carried the cartoon of Snoopy walking through a crowd of people with the banner Christ is the answer! And following Snoopy, as usual, was Schroeder and on his banner he had But what is the question? Christ is the answer but what is the question? We must start where people are at. And I think one of the problems of systems of evangelism is that they're not sufficiently individual. Secondly, they can stop you from really listening to what a person is saying. You have your plan and you want to follow your plan through. And really when a person comes in with a question it's a bit of a distraction actually. I mean point two follows point one. So let's get on to point two. And you stop really listening to the person. It reminds us of Proverbs 18 I think in verse 13. He who answers without listening the same is his folly and his shame. Another thing I would want to say and I would want to say this because of personal experience is that I don't think we should have it in our minds that every person you might want to come back to me on this that every person is going to have a specific particular conversion experience. That's become a modern idea hasn't it? That you must make a decision. That you must make a commitment if you're going to be a Christian. Well I'm afraid if that is absolutely essential I don't think I'm there. Because I can't remember a particular moment, day, time, month when I made a commitment or a decision or prayed a particular prayer inviting Christ into my life. My conversion from my viewpoint was much more a process. It was a process actually over many years. I'm sure when you're talking about God and time it gets very difficult doesn't it? But I'm sure in God's perspective there's a moment of regeneration. But in my perspective of what was happening in my life conversion was a process. And many of these systems of evangelism do encourage us to think of every person having to make a particular specified decision normally using very similar words to the next person if they're going to become believers. So that's some of the strengths and some of the weaknesses of plans of evangelism. I'm sure many of you have found them useful and will continue to find them useful if you use them sensitively and wisely. Any comment? Any feedback? Good. I can't remember a particular day when I first called as I look back on my own life. But I'm sure a majority of people will remember that day. You know I think Nigel made the point didn't he that some people ask the question and they're not really wanting an answer. And that's the kind of question you've got to deal with quickly and get them back on the track. But if the question is honest then I think they have the right don't they to at least ask that question and for you to try and give them an answer. Obviously if they're taking you away off you know we're talking about Cain where did he get his wife and all that kind of thing if they're taking you away off into all those kind of areas you can say well look we're not really talking about that we're talking about Jesus we want to face Jesus today let's stick to this issue and maybe we can deal with these other things later. But a genuine question you know I think it has the right to be listened to. Nigel and I know another evangelist who probably wasn't led by the Spirit at the time but he's a converted heavyweight boxer and he was preaching on Liverpool Pier and there was a particular individual who kept asking the most ridiculous questions and he just lost his rag and punched him and knocked him out flat on the pier. I don't think that's really the way to deal with excessive questions. Any other remark? No. I think you know that is another danger with plans of salvation if you're not very very sensitive you feel that if a person goes through a system or says a particular prayer then you know he can sign the decision card and he's converted. One of the things I thought we might look at are we going to cover this later? is signs of... Now personally maybe Nigel and I would do something differently I don't know but personally I do tend to make it difficult for people quite deliberately and I try and put people off very often I ask you know wouldn't you like to come back next week and think about it and Dr Moody would never have agreed with this particularly after the fire which changed his ministry but I still do I want people to be absolutely sure and I almost want them to be a touch of desperation there I don't want to go too far but I want people to be absolutely sure that now is the time and this is a very serious thing between them and God and if they put it off they're going to go away from that place afraid of what they've done Now Nigel give the balance I've seen in a sense the opposite recently in a church that I've been involved in where a man has been regularly systematically teaching the scriptures and yet he doesn't have the kind of evangelical language that we have he doesn't talk about making a decision he doesn't talk about these he doesn't use these terms and when I first met this congregation I thought that they didn't know Christ when I was talking to them because they were using a completely different language than myself but in fact I've found over the months that the regular systematic teaching of the word by a man who teaches it in a fairly unique way not using regular acceptable evangelical language has led to conversions many conversions in that congregation I think one thing we've been coming to in this discussion is that this point of leading someone to Christ is a very solemn point indeed to actually sit down with someone and help that person to a knowledge of God to actually making commitments to God is a very solemn thing indeed and we need balance we don't want to be afraid of that I went through a period in my ministry where I became afraid of it I saw so many people who I'd led to Christ who didn't go on that I became afraid of taking people to that point I don't think we should do that but I think we should be very careful very prayerful about leading a person to make commitments before God which of course is a very serious thing indeed now we've got coffee in 12 minutes shall I deal with the try and deal with the sovereignty of God and the free will of man in 12 minutes I mean the church has only discussed it for 2000 years OK well if God has chosen his elect and they'll be converted what's the point? this is a waste of time this personal evangelism seminar God has chosen his elect they'll come to Christ so what's the point of it all? you know there are some people who believe that and they believe it in such a way that it has a practical effect upon their lives I know, I've never met such people but I've been told of people who actually sit in churches in the islands off the west coast of Scotland and they long to be converted they say but they don't feel that they are the elect so they just sit Sunday by Sunday some of them I'm told actually shedding tears because they somehow long to be converted and yet they don't feel that they are the elect well the theological debate has been raging for many centuries Whitfield and Wesley had to part though they parted the best of friends because they couldn't come to agreement on this and a number of other issues and of course in most parts of the world I think the theological controversy rages today and even in 12 minutes you know I don't think we can fully solve it but I think the important point the important point is not to go any further than the Bible I believe it's when people go further than the Bible that they get into hot water what does the Bible actually say? I want to say three things remain lukewarm what does the Bible say? three things number one, the Bible does say unquestionably that God has chosen a people for his son Ephesians 1 verses 4 and 5 he chose us God chose us in Christ before the creation of the world he chose us to be holy and blameless in his sight in love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ and let me just give you two other verses James chapter 1 and verse 18 God chose to give us birth through the word of truth that we might be a kind of first fruits of all he created that's James 1 verse 18 it's an interesting verse what's the source of salvation? he chose to give us birth the initiative with your salvation and mine is with God God chose to give us birth how does he do it? through the word of truth the life giving word of God's truth that's which we've been suggesting to you we need to patiently sow in the cases of the majority over many days, many weeks that life giving word of truth is God's method if you like of regeneration the source God chose to give us birth the means through the word of truth the purpose that we might be a kind of first fruits of all he created exactly the same as Ephesians 1 isn't it? God has chosen us saved us that we might be a kind of first fruits remember how the first fruits were separated they were given to God and that's why we've been saved we've been saved that we might be set apart for God given to God for his particular glory and worship one other verse 2nd Corinthians chapter 4 and verses 4 to 6 2nd Corinthians 4 verses 4 to 6 the God of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ who is the image of God so that's the position of unregenerate man he's blind he cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ we do not preach ourselves says Paul but Jesus as Lord and ourselves as your servants for Jesus sake for God who in creation said let light shine out of darkness may his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ and the Bible pictures sinners as dead deaf blind and so on and the Bible says over and over again that it's only God who can give sight it's only God who can give hearing it's only God who can give life that's why prayerless evangelism is such a nonsense isn't it fancy going out with the gospel without pleading with God that he will give life to those who are dead and hearing to those who are deaf and so on remember how the Lord Jesus said in John 6 and verse 37 all that the father has given to me shall come to me so the father has chosen to give men and women to his son the Bible definitely teaches that truth then of predestination and I think you can see it I so often am amazed by it practically when we moved into our home about 5 or 6 years ago in Carlisle we moved into a long street of large terrace houses and most of them are kind of small hotels and we used a house of this size because the top story in those days at least was the O.M. Carlisle offices but on each side we had a hotel a small hotel completely shook her life shook all the foundations of her life and she has in a beautiful way come to Christ the person next door still very pleasant still makes tea for us sometimes still looks after the children but is as far away from God today as she ever was just coming to this particular conference we had a most remarkable incident my wife and myself we've been praying for a colonel in the British Army who we got to know and he seemed so so far away from God he's actually the band leader of one of the army bands in Britain and he is a typical British Army Colonel and he would talk about religion to us in the early days but only about Anglican religion and he only wanted to discuss Bishops and so on he did not want to talk about Jesus at all a number of things have happened in that person's life and we stayed in a guest house in Folkestone near Dover on the way across here to our absolute amazement we were walking along the sea front before going to sleep in the hotel and we came across this man and he'd been on holiday on the island of Malta and God had began to deal with this man and with his wife as well on that island and they had decided when they got back about four days before we met them that they were going to contact Peter Merden because they wanted to talk about the things which had been troubling them on the island but I'd been travelling they'd been ringing me and I couldn't get anywhere they couldn't get anywhere in touch with me and so God took us to that place to bring us into contact with them who were playing in the band in one of the bandstands along the sea front that night and that person has become a Christian the last person I would ever have imagined humanly speaking who would bow before the Lord Jesus Christ his wife oh he could have expected it any day but he has been the one who by the sovereign grace of God has bowed and come to know the Lord Jesus so from the Bible and in my own personal experience the sovereignty of God in evangelism seems very very apparent but the Bible also teaches quite clearly the responsibility of man man is responsible to what he hears from God and what he sees of God so you have Romans chapter 2 for example and verses 4 and 5 Romans 2 4 and 5 do you show contempt for the riches of God's kindness tolerance and patience not realizing that God's kindness leads you towards repentance because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart you are storing up rock against yourself for the day of God's rock when his righteous judgment will be revealed God will give to each person according to what he has done verse 8 underlines the point for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil there will be wrath and anger man is responsible if he rejects the truth if he follows evil he will incur the wrath and the anger of God well there are many many other verses let me just give you one more 2 Thessalonians chapter 1 and verse 8 God will punish those who do not know God he won't punish those who are not elect the Bible doesn't say that he will punish those who do not know God and who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ 2 Thessalonians 1 verse 8 man is responsible to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ and then the third thing which the Bible says is our responsibility to evangelize we evangelize because we are commanded to evangelize we are to go into all the world and we are to preach the gospel to every creature that is the command of God and you know the sovereignty of God is a very comforting truth when you are involved in being obedient to the great commission I can't remember which city Paul was in but I remember somewhere in the Acts of the Apostles Paul talking about being in a city and staying in that city because he believed that God had many people in that city and as he was living there and witnessing there and preaching there to all men he believed that God would bring many people who he had chosen in that city to himself I think if you hold those three truths in together all those three truths together I think you get something of the biblical balance God has chosen a people for his son there is however responsibility on each individual who hears the gospel and it's people who do not obey the gospel who will incur the wrath of God our responsibility is to preach the gospel to all men and I believe as I preach that there are people in whose life God is at work by his spirit well I was just mentioning all the great commission commands Matthew 28 and so on I'm sure it's the responsibility of every Christian to be a witness to the Lord Jesus and to the facts of the gospel were you asking a more specific question than that? Acts 1.8 of course was spoken specifically to those twelve disciples can you think of a verse Nigel which tells every Christian specifically to share his faith she's the youngest my mother broke down in front of me and she said you know I've always felt my ministry has just been to raise my children and I reminded her of about eight ladies for whom she does the shopping whenever they're sick she is the person who visits do not think you're witnessing encouraged us to keep a very very simple definition really pushed would be to the love of Jesus Christ very often it would be at the end of her life way of life way of helping people got more questions on the sovereignty of God the idea is to try and be back by 4th