Shane Idleman addresses a variety of questions about faith, science, and the nature of God in his sermon 'Put God to the Test.' He emphasizes that no question is off-limits and encourages open dialogue about the Christian faith, including topics like creation, suffering, and the evidence of God's existence. Shane highlights the importance of faith and the role of miracles in the Bible, while also acknowledging the challenges of belief in a modern context. He reassures that God is not too proud or busy to reveal Himself, but that a sincere heart seeking truth is essential for understanding. The sermon concludes with a call to seek God earnestly, promising that those who do will find Him.

There is no question necessarily off-limits, as long as it's decent and it's a genuine question. This isn't a time to stump the pastor. You know, in the Hebrew, this means this, you know. Not necessarily even on what we talked about, but just about the Christian faith in general or questions about God. And what we're going to do, we're going to have Phil's going to stand up here, Randy's going to stand up here, and you can walk up, begin to make a line on this side if there's anybody. I know it's a little embarrassing, maybe you're hard, but that's okay, trust me. I've had to be up here for 45 minutes, you can do it. So Phil, go ahead and stand up. Randy, go ahead and stand up. And start to come down and ask, it doesn't matter what side actually either, and they'll hold the microphone for you, and we'll try to get through some of these questions. So, come on guys, I know there's some questions out there. You can start on either side, even back row, you guys, you can come on down. We can't bring them, oh, there's more than I thought. All right, let's start. You want to start on your side, Randy? Hold it right, you got to hold it right to your mouth. Okay, if Adam and Eve were both one color, how are their different races? That's a good question. Now, we'll say up front, I don't have all the answers, right? Well, we know that Adam and Eve, that God created them, and then with the flood, the world was populated. Millions and millions of people, nobody really knows how many. That obviously, God wiped them out with the flood, and then we see Noah, his three sons, and his three daughters going on the ark, three daughter-in-laws going on the ark, the ark lands, and then they go out and they disperse, and they actually, if you email this, I could send you where Shem ended up, the nation that he was representing, where the other son, where he went, and they can chart the different ethnic groups to these areas. So that's basically where it came from, where the ethnic groups came from. Good question. This side? Okay, thank you. You hold it or I hold it? He holds it. You hold it, okay. Don't hit me with it. Well, I have to first take a measure of how much my life may be in danger. How many other atheists are here? See, nobody. Ah, three or four. Okay, I've got protection. I'd like to review very momentarily, in a matter of seconds, what Pastor Eidelman has said. And he pointed out some things that I pay close attention to. The writers of the Bible, as I understand it, were scattered across the sands. They believed the earth was flat. If they looked at a $30 wheelbarrow from Home Depot, they would be impressed by the astonishing technology that that would represent. The Bible is actually an anthology, as you know. I need your question, though. If you want me to answer your question. The question is, what can be shown? There are a few points, though. You said these people said the stars are innumerable. That means only that they had a limitation of concept. They had no number. That means more than we have a number for. Okay, so the question is... Kepler thought there were a thousand, and that's because he had no instrumentation. He was taking a visual count. Now, my point is that, as we know, in anthropological terms, there have been about 6,000 gods currently invented. If God was to reveal Himself to His creatures, humans, us, He would do a better and more careful, I think, less sloppy job. Why would He allow 6,000 different gods to emerge among different segments of His human creation? So, my fundamental question is this. What can you show as evidence? That's the most important word I can utter to you. Evidence that, indeed, man is a creature of God, instead of, as I believe, the other way around. I believe that God, and all gods, are simply creatures of men. Got it. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate it. I don't even know where to start on that one. Thank you, though. Let's talk about the first aspect really quickly. The Bible, I don't know in the Bible where it talks about the earth being flat, and they had lacked knowledge. When we look at the Bible, we actually see something different. I see a book that was written over 1,500 years, by 40 different authors, three different continents, saying the same exact thing. Now, logically, I'd say, okay, well, that doesn't really tell me too much. But if I look at the book scientifically, what we just talked about, not just the one on the stars, I mean, I could have sat there for another hour and went all over all the different data in the Bible that confirmed science. So, you look at the scientific confirmation. And, again, the challenges out there show me one area where the Bible is wrong from a scientific viewpoint. Then I look at the archaeological discoveries. I use logic. Oh, the city of David existed. The kings, the religious leaders, the time frames. You look at the archaeological discoveries, actually confirm what is in the Bible. You take, for example, the Book of Mormon, which is opposite to what the Bible would teach. They don't have the kings and the kingdoms and the places. You can't go to any of the places and see them, but you can go to Jerusalem. You can go to the city of David. So you have scientific evidence. You have archaeological evidence. You have prophetic evidence. That, prophetically, you can look at historical accuracy of the Bible. That throughout all the kingdoms, the chronological order, you see this book that has not been... You can throw out things there, but there's no evidence against it. And everything I just actually spent 40 minutes on, the changed life, you read Scripture, and it changes the way you relate. You can confirm it through how not only you feel, but everything I just talked about. Now, people say, oh, that's how you feel. Right, but how you feel is confirmed in Scripture. If you feel you've been set free from this debt, this sin, that you love God. Now, I used to hate Him. Where did this come from? That confirms, that helps to add validity to the Bible. Now, the 6,000 gods, I think there's a lot more than that if you study Hindu and all those different religions. That always if there's an original, there's a counterfeit. We know that. And God revealed Himself in His creation. You can look at all the other religions. Buddha actually came from Hinduism. Hinduism, Muslims, it's works based. Man reaching up to God. Where Christianity, the Bible is God reaching down to man. So then I look at the resurrection. If it's not just the Christians, it's Josephus. It's Jewish who didn't like the Christians. He says that Jesus performed many miracles, attested to many miracles. He was killed on a cross. He rose from the dead, they say. The Roman historians, the Greek historians, they all say that this man died on a cross. If it was a lie, if he never rose from the dead, then we would have nothing. But we have something that has literally changed the world. Not only that, Jesus could have just said, I will rise from the dead spiritually. But He said, I will rise from the dead on the third day. So now you have these people that supposedly stole the body. 11 of the 12 disciples were actually killed for their faith. Hung upside down, martyred with beheadings, different things. They were killed because of what they believed. And if somebody's going to come up to you and say, listen, I'm going to kill you. Here's where we hid the body. This is all a myth. This is made up. Nobody's going to die for what they know to be a lie. So again, logic, consistency. I use all these different things, and you look at the Christian testament, and you look at the Bible, and to me there is a plethora of evidence in that. I liked what you were talking about, Noah's in the ark and so forth. I'd have to say that, ask if you would agree, that our greatest gift was two from God. First off, when everything was destroyed, man had turned holy evil. The description we get is pretty clear. There's a problem. So he said, here's a set of people. We're going to send them to recreate man anew. So then we have Jesus Christ and his greatest gift. And my question is, do you agree that we've had two great gifts? The earth was destroyed because of mankind's disobedience, for lack of a better term. And then God said, okay, I'm not going to undo everything. I'm going to send these wonderful, faithful people, and their children, and this ark, and give mankind a whole other choice. Well, our adversary is stronger than anyone understands, and that's the beginning, the first gift. I'm asking if you agree that is our first gift of a chance. All again, none of this discussion is pointless, because if he said at that time, I'm done. I mean, I gave you free will. Choose it, use it. But this is the outcome. Yeah, I think it's the greatest gift. That's a good point. There's two wonderful gifts, I believe. That being the first. And then when he says, I can give you my son, as in I'll walk amongst you. Go ahead. No, thank you. I agree. Thanks, Randy. No, if you're asking if I agree, I definitely do. And something that's ironic to me is when Jesus is on the cross, the creation is killing the Creator. How quick. He could have just said, I'm done. Let's start over. But he bore that penalty for us, right? So if you have, if there is, I often say this at church, if you don't like what I'm saying, it's probably because you need to hear what I'm saying. See, conviction is good. God-given conviction is good. We don't deny the Creator because we lack evidence. We lack the Creator because of pride and arrogance. So, Phil, you guys can, anybody else on this side? You guys up in the back? There's a whole bunch of people in the back area. You guys can come down too and just ask your questions about anything you want. Okay, come on this side. Go ahead, Randy. Are you presenting a false God in reference to Romans 1, 18 and 19? That all creation knows that God exists, but they suppress the truth of their unrighteousness. Right. You're making the unbeliever the judge of our Creator. I don't understand the question, though. Can you reframe it? Well, let me, what you're talking about is… The question is, are you presenting a false God to reference, referencing Romans 1, 18 and 19? Well, let's read Romans 1, 18 and 19. What does it say? His invisible attributes are clearly seen. So the man is without excuse. And man suppresses the truth in all ungodliness and righteousness. And then it goes on to say what things result because they're suppressing the truth. So the point of Romans was his invisible attributes are clearly seen. The things that are created see that there is a Creator. So I don't know how that's a false God, but I might be missing something. The false God being that you're making the unbeliever the judge with your evidence. It clearly says in 1, 18 that everybody knows that God exists. Right. It's clear. But they suppress the truth with their unrighteousness. And you're presenting a God where the unbeliever is a judge with your evidence. In what way? I don't even understand. With all the evidence that you're talking about. The evidence of morality, the evidence of science. Why is that proving God from an unbeliever's standpoint? Because you're making the unbeliever the judge. No. It clearly says, Romans 1, 18 and 19, that everybody knows that God exists. But they suppress the truth with their unrighteousness called sin. Right. Exactly. But you're presenting the unbeliever evidence, making him the judge, which is a false God. Not at all. Absolutely. No. That's what you're doing here. No, the Bible says to give every man a reason for the hope that is within you. And if you don't think I talk about judgment or sin, come visit church one Sunday. This is an arena to show people that there is a creator. That he shows us through his creation. He shows us through morality, a moral law, a moral law giver. He shows us through the internal evidence. It's showing that there is a God. Evidence. Exactly. Yeah, I don't really understand the question, so I apologize. I'll be happy to talk to you afterwards. Okay. We're open to answer. Go ahead. Could you explain the difference between truth and belief? You explained a little bit about the truth, but you didn't say anything about belief. Actually, what you said about the truth was correct, because gravity doesn't care who's going to go up there. You can say Allah, Akbar, Mary, whatever religion you are. But could you explain the belief? Belief needs human agreements. For example, I used to be a Muslim, but now I believe in God. I know there is such a thing. I call it life force. But every religion, they claim their religion is the right religion. So you are saying the same thing. He died for us. That's based on belief. It's not based on truth. Well, the main question is, the question is how am I reconciling truth with belief? What's the difference? Truth can be gravity, or truth can be 2 plus 2 equals 4. You can have different kinds of truth, but what I'm talking about is moral truth. That when God sets a standard of morality, how to live, all these things, that's truth. That's morality. Looking to the Old Testament, He gave the law to follow the law, but we couldn't follow the law, so the Bible says the law was actually given to us as a schoolmaster to teach us and show us our need for Christ. So a person sees this need for a Savior, they repent, and they believe, they trust, they believe that God is who He said He was. And as a result of believing, they are born again. Belief needs human agreement. 7 billion of us, if we believe in something, it becomes real. You just make sure you believe in the right thing is the key. So, in the follow-up on that question, the different religions, I think I alluded to this a little bit in the message, is all religions, all religions are do, do, do, do. You've got to do this, you've got to pray a certain direction, you've got to fast, you've got to do this, Hindu, the list of things, reincarnation, and Buddhist, and it's doing, it's doing, it's doing, it's works-oriented. So what sets Christianity apart from every single religion is our good works do not lead to salvation. We do good works because we have been saved. So it's not do, do, do, it's Christ has done it on the cross. It's finished, the complete work of Christ on the cross is done. So we believe in that, we embrace that, and that's the difference. God saved us, we're not doing good works and trying to make our way to God. That's the difference, that's the big distinction between every other religion. You also can look at the prophets, if you look at Muhammad and what he, you know, his background in Buddha, and you look at Hare Krishna and his maidens, and you look at the sexual purity of Christ, and being without sin, and this perfect sacrifice, no other religion claims that that leader, that the founder was what Jesus claimed to be. You just put them up, they don't even, you can't even compare. That's why we have the perfect sacrifice in Christ. This side. Hi, it seems in this type of forum a lot gets put merely on the Bible. You're explaining Christianity, they're trying to explain belief, I mean, but really what is on trial, I believe it's the word of God. Right, exactly. Psalm 12, 6 and 7 says, the words of the Lord are pure words, as silver tried in the furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation forever. So my question is this, can I get a perfect, inspired Bible handed to me tonight? Are you a King James advocate? I mean, I'm just asking a question, I didn't say what I am. Let me ask you first, are you? I'm searching. Is that the King James? I mean, I'm just asking a question. But to better answer, I'm just curious what your thoughts are. Really, the question comes from Psalm 12, 6 and 7, so the word of God, I believe, is on trial. So I think what could really answer questions is if the word of God was perfect, existed, things like that. So that's my question. Now, do you mean it's on trial just through our culture? Well, you're explaining Christianity, but we only know what Christianity is because of a book. Right, gotcha. Okay, that's a good sense. Well, if we had some time, the majority of translations, King James, New King James, Codex Secanicus, Codex Vaticanus, they got the manuscripts from two different areas. The NIV, the English Standard Version, this set of manuscripts is known as the oldest manuscripts. And then the New King James, the King James comes from this other school of manuscripts that are, they call it the majority text, and they have the majority of the manuscripts. So here's the thing, there is minor variations in the manuscripts, but nothing in regard to truth. You'll see differences in certain verses, maybe the person said it differently this way in the translation. So, to answer his question, we don't believe that there is a perfect Bible written from the hand of God where we would probably worship that Bible. That Bible was written by men, but the different translations have a consistent theme of truth throughout the entire set of the Bible. No matter if it's King James, New King James, NIV, it's the same truth. There's no questions in that. But then you get into like the New Living Translation, where it becomes what they call a formal equivalence and dynamic equivalence. Dynamic equivalence is when they take a thought for thought. So they translate the Bible. Here's what the authors meant. They translate the whole thing thought for thought. I would encourage a formal equivalence where it's actually a word for word translation of the Bible. So when you translate the Bible into we support the Wycliffe Bible Translation Society and they translate the Bible in different languages, you have to use different words, different meanings to people to grasp the truth. So hopefully that helps. This side? Hi Shane. Hello. I have a good question for you. Jesus performed miracles to validate the truth of what he said and taught. I wanted you to explain how the miracles of other religions compare to Jesus' miracles. Do you have any examples? Just like the Hindu religions the alleged miracles of Mohammed for example. Jesus himself said that if you don't believe my words look at the miracles. I wanted you to elaborate on the differences of Jesus' miracles, how they validated what he said he did versus the false well we wouldn't consider it false. The key word is alleged miracles. We don't see the miracles in other religions. That's another thing that sets apart Christianity. We see the miracles being done by Jesus, being people raised from the dead, the blind seeing and all these things, even secular historians attested to many different miracles and we just don't see that in other religions. So that is a good point. Thank you. This side? Keep coming down if you have questions. So I used to be a big like I was very angry at God before I just want to say this for my question but now that I'm a born again Christian, which praise God for that and I used to be a self-harmer, I used to have auditory hallucinations, all this stuff but thank God he saved me and I've never heard voices and I've been a year off from self-harming because of him and thank you. So my question is I've been reading the Bible for a year now and I'm in Revelations and I hear a lot of stuff about a tribulation and my question for you is just do you believe in a tribulation and if you do I hear some Christians say like it'll come before all the bad things happen or it'll come after. I don't know what my question is. What do you believe? That's a good question. Here's something interesting. Another thing that comes up against Christianity is you guys are all divided. You're split up in different denominations. The reason is Christianity agrees on all, they call it essential truths. The essentials. Jesus is the only way, the only truth, the only life. Nobody comes to the Father except through him. The inerrancy of Scripture, the virgin birth, the Son of God, the trinity of nature of God. So these are essentials. But then you come up with what she asks are the non-essentials and the Bible really isn't crystal clear on the end of how things are going to end. That's why there's this division. She's talking about the tribulation. Revelation talks about tribulation. There's post-trib, meaning after the tribulation. There's mid-trib, meaning that we are not going to absorb God's wrath, but we'll be out of here. Then there's pre-trib, pre-tribulation rapture, the rapture of the church. Then there's amillennialism that kind of falls under a different guideline where a lot of this already took place and we're not going to go through the tribulation. The reason is it's like putting together a puzzle. We don't know exactly how it's going to unfold. Doesn't that bother you, Shane? No, because I do know what's going to unfold when Jesus said be ready for my return. I'm coming again. Be ready. That's how we prepare. That's what we're ready for. So that's why there's division. I don't have a personal view on the tribulation. Looking at things now, it's getting worse. I think we know. You see North Korea. You see Israel becoming a state again 1948-1967 war. You see the Middle East crisis. You see everything centering around that. So a lot of that points to an end time type of Armageddon or tribulation. But there are different views on that. Anytime great men of God are divided on something I kind of hold on to those things loosely because it's not clear in those areas. Hi. My question is this. I have a couple sons. One who believes in Christ and the other one believes in evolution. And I tried to get him here tonight but he had a weak excuse. So he's not here. But what would you suggest for me as a father? Is there a book out there other than the Holy Bible? Is there something you would recommend? Well what I would do is number one it sounds like he's not ready to be taught or doesn't want to hear the other side. So as a father I would be praying. I would be putting time aside a day. I'm a big fan of fasting. If you have a question on that. Fasting is starving the flesh and being in tune with God's spirit and praying. And I would be just contending for my family and praying that God would begin to open his heart so he'd begin to ask questions. But if we just start throwing things at people they're not receptive. So that's what I would do. I would just pray and seek God to open his heart. Well thank you. One more comment. I just recently have started doing some fasting. And I read something, some scripture I believe in Isaiah. And you have to have the right heart and be in the right place and start with your repenting. And I'm just I think that's how it goes. Could you clear that up for me? Well yeah. If you're interested, if you go to our website and put in fasting in the search engine you'll have about six different sermons and six hours worth of. But in a nutshell we see throughout the Old Testament that we have Nehemiah fasting for direction. We have all the different prophets fasting. You get into the New Testament you have Jesus fasting. And what it is as Christians it's a starving of the flesh. It's an appetite. And the more you feed that flesh a lot of food, a lot of alcohol a lot of that flesh just dominates. If you know exactly what I'm talking about you've been there. So fasting is a time where you starve that flesh. It's not where you become super spiritual and God loves me more. It's a time of just seeking God and starving the flesh. So I would first encourage you to go to the website but it is biblical. But you also have to kind of know a little bit about what happens and how your body works. We're so amped up on caffeine and sugar and bad food that when we start to fast it's a toxic meltdown. So you've got to prepare your body for that. Oh yeah. Thank you. Hi there Pastor Shane. I have one question. I believe in the Bible and everything but there's always one thing that kind of stumped me. Creationists believe that the earth was four to ten thousand years old. As scientists say it's about 3.9 billion. I heard them say 6 billion. Why is it so different? I never understood why. Okay. It's called young earth or old earth. A couple things. Let me try to create the foundation for this. There are pastors too even friends of mine in this valley who believe in evolution. They believe in God but they believe in evolution. And they try to I know there's a God right? I know there's a God but I want to be recognized in the scientific community. I don't want to be looked upon as one of those weird people. So they take on evolution. They don't look at the inerrancy of scripture and what the Bible says. The main reason why is in the beginning God created and when he goes through the days there, there's a word called in the Hebrew it's yom. Y-O-M. And it means a day. But sometimes it can be translated into a period of time. So you have authors such as Hugh Ross who believes that millions or billions of years and they try to take science into the Bible and saying that the earth is millions or galaxy billions of years old. But to answer your question, just the basic reading of scripture promotes a young earth. Just reading it in the first day God created this. Second day he created this. Morning and evening were night. Morning and evening were night. And I actually have a few points here on this. If you look at Providence Canyon in Georgia, it covers more than 1100 acres. John MacArthur said this in his book, The Battle for the Beginning. I would recommend that. In the early 1800s the entire area was flat farmland. By 1940s nearly buildings and towns had to be moved or nearby buildings and towns had to be moved to accommodate the growing canyon. Today the canyon comprises 16 fingers and more than a mile in length. It's often called Georgia's Little Grand Canyon. Its features are indistinguishable from canyons that geologists claim that took billions of years to form. And then you have the problem of radiometric dating. We don't know how much radioactive material is in a rock. Additionally, there are many instances of very young rocks being dated very old. One example is a volcano in Alaska. A rock that was 100 years old was dated to be 5.5 billion years old. So what happened is these people with good intentions take the scientific data, a lot of it is flawed, and they say, oh, we don't want to look silly here, we better believe that it's billions of years old. But you can, here's a couple, PhD Russell Humphreys wrote a great report, New Data, New Rate Data Supports a Young World. He's a PhD. Also, PhD John Bongardner, Carbon Dating Undercuts Evolution's Long Ages. Nuclear, here's another, PhD Russell Humphreys. He said, Nuclear Decay Evidence for a Young World. So you can see that the Bible promotes about 5,000, 6,000 year Earth. Also, the speed of light. In Science Daily recently, there's a theory that challenges Einstein's physics that could soon be put to the test. The idea that speed of light could be variable. And we see things forming, this must have took 5 million years, but really we see this canyon, this whole miniature Grand Canyon was made in 40 years. So what we think is maybe 5, 10, 15 million years, or billions of years, if you just read the Bible verse by verse, from historical context, and putting everything in context, it supports a young Earth. For example, when Adam was created, right? Breath of Adam, Adam was created, he's a second old. Did he look a second? He looked 30 years old. So what God did, in a moment of time, the age, he looked the age. So that's what's happening. They go to the scientific community, but a lot of the scientific data in this area is flawed. How in the world do we know how old the universe is? Read these reports. I can email you all these PhDs in science are saying that it's a young Earth in this area. So that's why that happens, if that helps a little bit. Hi, Pastor Shane. I just want to say thank you for doing this. I myself am a believing Christian, but something that I've always struggled with, even with my belief in God's Word, is the question of suffering. And I know it's a really popular question, but why does God allow such intense suffering, not just suffering, but suffering with the innocent? Yeah, that is a good question. And I think sometimes we do harm to that question because we just kind of answer it with a cavalier approach. Oh, well, it says this. Get on with it. But we have to feel the heart and the compassion of the person who is going through that suffering. I asked my wife if I could share this, and she was sexually molested at 12. I know there was a guy in his 20s who took advantage of her when she was 14. I still see him in town sometimes. And it's hard, suffering, and there's people going through difficult things. But often it's an atheist that asks that question. But what you said, I want to bring out a few things. So life has value, right? I mean, if there's suffering, then life has value. And that question is always being asked by someone, by something that is either happening to a person or somebody is going through something. So it's not a matter of if there's a God. Now it becomes a matter of why does God allow those things? And I wrote down a few things here. But this might be a good point, too, also to remind everybody. We create a culture that says there is no God. Then they act like there's no God, and then we blame God. Yeah, that's a good one to clap on. That might be a Twitter post. But think about that. We create a culture that says there's no God. You teach kids they're animals, they act like animals. And then we blame God for the way they're acting. Now that doesn't quite answer the question. I just want to throw that out there to give us a framework. And it goes back to what I said earlier. The greatest gift ever given is love. But with that comes the other side of that, evil. And rejecting that love and suffering. And the choices of others do affect us. There are consequences to that. And God allows certain things, not necessarily causes them. But why doesn't He stop that suffering? Why doesn't He do that? But then we're asking for, really, not a God that allows us free will. We're asking for heaven now. And not being able to, and also another reason is we live in a fallen world. So not only is my body dying and decaying in the sin nature, but also we live in a fallen world. And we know that they're suffering because of this. Now the greatest gift out of that suffering, out of that suffering, is many people are drawn closer to God. I forget the what's that song? Like sea billows roll, it is well, it is well with my soul. Do you know that that man lost, I think, three or four daughters in the Atlantic Ocean? In the 1800s? He went out back to that spot on the Atlantic Ocean, and he wrote that great hymn. Like sea billows roll, or whatever that thing, I wish I would have looked at it. But he said, it is well, it is well with my soul. And that suffering, those who have been forgiven much love much. See, and often through that suffering, if that suffering points us to God, you have a very deep relationship with Him. And then you know who He is as your provider. Then you know who He is as your healer, as your Redeemer. God, you're everything. You hold me together. So that suffering, I often wonder, without the suffering, would we be drawn to Him? I mean, if everything's going good, I don't know about you, but when everything's going good, my prayer life stinks. Putting on this event really got me praying. Right? So that suffering, and I'm also not trying to minimize because you know, some hard questions were asked. I wrote one of them down. Yeah, about a person being raped and why God didn't stop that. And sometimes we don't have all the answers. That's why I meant by you just can't, well, here's why, here's why, here's why. Get on with it. I mean, you have to feel the pain of the person, but you also have to point them to the source of hope. See, so many, I mean, I look back on my life, the pain and the regret, and I'm like, but somehow, what the enemy intended for evil, He intended for good, and now I wouldn't, I thank God for what He allowed me to go through because it drew me to Him. So there's an interesting dynamic that takes place in suffering. Thank you. This side. Hi. Forty-four years ago, the Supreme Court passed the Roe versus Wade decision, which allowed abortion in all 50 states. Before that, it was illegal in many states. And it's been a very, very controversial topic, even among churches. Some churches are pro-life, and some are pro-abortion. Do you believe the Bible has something to say about children in the womb, and do you see any correlation between abortion and child sacrifice in the Bible? Boy, do I ever. How long do you have? Well, here's the, you said many churches that are pro-choice, many churches that are evolution, many churches, those same churches also don't talk about sin, they don't talk about repentance, they don't talk about judgment, they avoid all the difficult things. Those are not pastors and churches, they're cowards. They don't talk about what is true. So, the Bible is crystal clear that life begins at conception. Life begins at conception. God forms the child in the womb, and that life begins at conception. And God does not favor abortion whatsoever, because that's actually taking innocent life. It breaks the commandment. They're taking innocent life. And what you're alluding to is in the Old Testament, they would, the nation of Israel and the pagan nations would actually take their newborn children and they would lay them on the hot searing arms of Molech, and they would offer their children to the God of Molech. So it's no different now that many times we don't want the consequences, we want the freedom to do what we want, when we want, who we want, to who we want, and we don't want to deal with the consequences. And it just kind of drives me a little nuts when they say, well, am I right? Well, what about the child's right? It doesn't matter. Now, with this said, I've shared this at church. 25 years ago, I participated in aborting my six-week-old child. And there's not a month that goes by that it hurts 25 years later. Six weeks, just a tissue. But I have to live with that pain. Is it a boy? Is it a girl? What would they look like? So, the pain is real, the suffering is real. Life is real. But God says, it's okay, come home. He's with me, or she's with me. And so that's how I... So I want to encourage people as well. You know, it's not Christians just beating up on this issue. We have a lot of compassion for those who have made mistakes. But we can't... I mean, if... It would not be good if I described a partial birth abortion. Or saline abortion, where they inject saline solution, and the baby's fighting for its life, and they tell the mom it's a contraction. This is horrific, it's murder. And the nation has the blood of innocent children on her hands. And people mock me for that, but you're not going to silence me. That's the truth, because that's the heart of God, is to protect the children. Next question. So, if no father would... Sorry. So if Adam and Eve never sinned in the first place, would there be still things such as natural disasters? As in, did the fall... Did that, you know, cause natural disasters? As in, if there were no sin, would there still be death? Well, the short answer is no. We believe that the Bible teaches that the fall of man, the fall of Adam, all of creation now groans because of that choice that Adam made. Don't make that decision. Don't make that decision. You'll live forever, the garden you'll tend, and then he made that decision. Actually, Eve made the decision when she saw that the tree was good for food, pleasant to the eye, and desirable to make one wise. She took of it. Now, be careful in all three of those areas. Did you hear what I said? When she saw that the tree was good for food, the lust of the flesh. It was pleasant to the eye, the lust of the eye, and desirable to make one wise, the pride of life. He's going to come at you in all three areas in your own life. But no, we believe that that wouldn't have happened, that the natural disasters, the things that are a result of our fallen nature. Here's what we want. We want the freedom to choose, but we don't want to deal with the consequences. You can't have both of those. I believe that it would have eliminated all of that. Back over here. Hi. I guess I'm just curious to know what you would have to say about dogs. The way dogs came about is we would breed together, or dogs as we know them anyways, we would breed together two dogs that have desirable traits. That's how you end up going from a wolf to a dachshund or a chihuahua. Those didn't exist several thousand years ago. To me, it seems that's very clear evidence, if not proof, of the theory of evolution. You apply that same concept to nature and the animals with the most desirable traits, the ones that are best fit to survive, will do that. They'll survive and they'll pass on their traits. That's how species end up changing on the whole. That's a good question. Two things I would have you think of. Number one is what kind of made me really think is, where did that first life come from? If a baby can't even care for themselves, how does a single cell, amoeba or whatever, develop into a human? How did it survive that atmosphere? How did a plant know to grow the perfect macronutrient and micronutrient content to feed that body? The body now has the ability to break down carbohydrates for fuel, protein for muscle, and fat for storage. All these areas. The food knew exactly how to evolve itself. You just think this through, it's impossible. What you're talking about is species. We believe that there was one species, say the dog species, one species, a certain type of fish, and from those species you have different variations of that same species. To me it doesn't prove evolution, it would more prove what they call micro-evolution or evolution of a species developing and growing and changing. I'm not quite following how that would prove evolution, but I could talk to you afterwards if you have some time. Okay. Randy on this side. Hi, so earlier you said that science kind of, there's a lot of situations in the Bible where science proves them, correct? Yes, where science confirms. Okay, well I would actually like to argue that there are multiple situations in the Bible where there is no scientific explanation at all. One being, and sorry if I don't know this exactly, Lot's wife being turned to salt, correct? There's no scientific explanation for that, and also how in the story of Noah's Ark being at the height they would have to be at, not dying from lack of oxygen or freezing to death, and I would just like to hear your response on how those are explained by science. Well, the first one, we have to remember too that God is not governed by the laws of science, or the laws of gravity, or the laws of time. God sits outside of that, so that's why we call miracles. A miraculous thing takes place. The creation of life is a miracle. The wife turning to a pillar of salt is a miracle. Jesus, water into wine, healing people. So we see these miracles because God works outside of the scientific parameters. And then the question to the Ark, we would have to speculate, do we know what the Earth's atmospheric pressure was, or do we know if the seasons and the, was it cold? I mean, we just, these are all guesstimates. So I don't know if science, yeah, you can ask another one, sure. Well, actually, I believe it said that the water covered up to the tallest mountain, correct? Right. So that would have to be Mount Everest, which is around 30,000 feet, right? And at that height there's not the same atmosphere. Oh, I got your saying. And it would have been extremely freezing cold. Now, there are, if you look at Creation Institute answers in Genesis and different things, Mount Everest was actually formed as a result of the deep and the waters breaking up, and as a result of this huge upheaval, that's when the mountain ranges were created, that's where the continent shifts were created. That created the mountain ranges. So it didn't have to go over Mount Everest's current height, I believe, of 34,000 feet, or Mount Witney here at 17,000 feet. Those were created as a result of the flood. So the mountain levels and different things were probably fairly low, so it covered the whole Earth, and as the great waters of the deep broke up, that created what we know as a mountain range. I mean, you can look at mountain ranges and something cataclysmic created those things. I mean, it's just like the sheer force of the Earth coming up. Go ahead. Well, actually, and I don't know much about geology, but I know that mountains are created when two of the tectonic plates collide and are pushed up, and we can even witness things like that happening now, I believe, somewhere in Africa, there's a location where the plates are dividing. So we know what creates mountains, and we know that it's a process that takes millions and millions of years. So is there any explanation for that? Well, that's what I just said. The mountains weren't that high, so if, and now we're talking about a God that created the sun. So when God says the oceans of the deep are open, and he orchestrates this cataclysmic event, what we could say would take millions of years, he could happen simultaneously. He could make it happen like that. So the water that's in the deep, in the Earth there, is coming up and coming out, flooding the Earth. As a result, the mountains, the tectonic plates are hitting, they're actually shifting, and it causes one to go over the other. This one pushes this one up. So the mountains were formed as a result of the flood. So the water didn't have to be as high as current Mount Everest, if I'm remembering things correctly. Any more people on this side? Let's catch up with this side. Okay, go ahead. Well, first of all, I'd like to thank the Lord for the dignity of choice that he gives us. And, uh, what I seem to get from people is they say, how come God allows so much bad in the world? Well, my question to you, and it's kind of a softball for you, is how come there's so much good in the world? Whoo, yeah, there you go. Well, you know, it's interesting you said that because, if you just read the Old Testament, the world was ruthless. Early Rome, you don't want a child? Just go throw it in the river. I mean, you can read the history, 2000, and it was, the world was, that's why the flood, we see the man given over to the depravity of his heart leads to everybody's doing evil. So the good, actually, we believe, and if you look, the Bible with Christ, with 12 men turning the world upside down, now we have people filled with the Spirit of God, being killed, being martyred, they're spreading the love of God, the grace of God throughout the entire world. Now, it's ironic, though, people are actually killed because of the love. That's why the message of love has now become a message of hate. The only way you can silence what I'm saying is to say that it's hate speech. Now, let's just think about this for a minute. If there is a God, and He says certain behaviors are wrong, wouldn't it be love to tell a person that? Well, yes, it was then. Well, see, we don't have a problem with the hate speech and things, we have a problem with the inerrancy of the Word. Either the Bible says what it says, or it doesn't. So if we're saying, hey, here's what God's Word says, I love you enough to tell you the truth, how is that hate? Because based on that definition, I hate my children. I'm warning them, I'm admonishing them, I'm telling them, don't do that, that's not good, that's not healthy, that's going to hurt. So I hate my children. It's just, it's very sad what our culture has come to nowadays to call this type of stuff hate speech. Really, when people say that, it's because they don't want to hear it. They don't want to hear what's being said. Is there any other questions out there? Come on this side. Dr. Rainbow, I was hoping you would come up. You're going to stop me, aren't you? He's actually a friend of mine, so I'm glad he made it. Thank you for coming. Thank you, Shane, for this tonight. And I have a question I think might give some people understanding. In Genesis, he says, we made man in our image. According to our likeness, yeah. Just an explanation on that, our and we. Yeah, that's true. So you wanted me to clarify that? Well, yeah, when God, when He created, He said, let us make man in our image. And you see that word, what God is using, it's Elohim. It's the plural nature of God. That's where we come up with the Trinity. You'll see El, the singular, Elah or Elohim in the Hebrew language. So you see, let us make man in our image. So you see the Trinity right there. Christ, the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. The triune nature of God in creation right at the beginning. So that was a good point. On the person that asked about the dogs, isn't there God said not to mix breeds as well? I don't know. I'd have to check that one. Isn't the same one where not to mix fabrics and the clothes? Well, it's interesting on the fabrics. Different breeds. Yeah, it's interesting on the fabrics and clothes. I believe it's don't mix wool and linen, right? Oh my gosh, what's he talking about? For us, what was made out of wool and linen? The priest's garments. So he's saying that people don't wear and look like a priest if you're not one. It'd be the same thing like me impersonating one of the sheriffs outside. So that's what he was saying. Don't mix these things because then you're taking on the appearance and the fashion of a priest and that's dressing in a fashion, in a way, that doesn't tell people who you really are. So that was the reason behind that. This side? I have another question. I know it's really hard to understand. It's something I've been really difficult for me to understand. It's just how this Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit work. Especially when Jesus is out there praying to the Father. And some people argue that they're three different. I've had my parents tell me, well, they're all in one. And some Christians saying, well, or some people who believe it's just confusing. I know we can't fully understand how it works and how God and the Father and the Holy Spirit and the Son work together. I know we're only limited to how much we know. But I guess, if you can explain a little bit how it does work together and why was Jesus praying to the Father and crying out to Him? That's a really good point. The Trinity, the reason we embrace the Trinity is because, like she said, and he alluded to it, it's taught in Scripture. Jesus said, I and the Father are one. If you've seen me, you've seen the Father. Before Abraham was, I am. And when he said that, they wanted to kill him. Because they knew he was saying he is God. Now, there's a dangerous thing where you can say, it's called modalism, and you can say it's almost like an egg. You have the yolk, you have the white, you have the shell. Three and the one there. And modalism would teach that Jesus was kind of like a ventriloquist. He was not really praying to the Father. He was kind of, you know, because it's this concept of, okay, we don't worship three gods. That's for sure. And so theologians have wrestled with this over the years, and I believe if you look at the Westminster Confession of Faith or different councils, that the definition is God is one essence. The essence of God revealing himself in three separate and distinct persons. But then we don't think of persons as persons. And God, we know, is of spirit. And those who worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. So the Trinity is a mystery. I can't really explain it other than embracing it. And what God says, we know that there are three distinct, but there are also one in the same. So it's a mystery, and we don't fully understand that doctrine. This is actually cool because I felt moved to ask this question. In the past two were also about the Trinity. So my question about the Trinity is, of course, it's very clear that, you know, with Scripture such as John 1, Jesus is God, obviously. And, you know, Scripture does support the concept of the Trinity, even though the word Trinity is not used in the Bible at all. And that's what, like, Jehovah's Witnesses use as, you know, in their mind, evidence against the Trinity. Tell them the Bible isn't in the Bible either. No, I see your point, but my question is to kind of ask some different aspects. The word Trinity is not in the Bible. I know, I think, in the King James Version and the New King James Version, there's the term Godhead. So what's the... Do you think it's... I mean, I understand your point with the whole using the word the word Bible is not in the Bible, but what is... How can we justify using the word Trinity when it still kind of doesn't even describe, you know, the Godhead in really a kind of good way? Yeah, that makes sense, yeah. And it is a play on words because even the Godhead doesn't reveal Trinity, triune, three, the triune nature of God. By just saying the word Godhead, you would know that there's a Trinity. The Godhead could be one. So I think Trinity helps to explain that God revealing Himself, basically He's revealing Himself as Father in creation, Son in redemption, Holy Spirit in regeneration. He works in all three of those different areas. Those three are one. It's a mystery. It's an unbelievable mystery, but it's taught. Hope that helps. Dr. Rainbow? Hi, Shane. Hey, how's it going? Good talk. Thank you. You know, He is my friend. We can say that. This summer, I want to say, this summer, He invited me to come to His church, and I visited His church. And I think one of the most beautiful verses in the whole Bible is in 1 John, which says He who loves is born of God and knows God. And I felt very loved at that church by Him and this guy, too. I do have a question for you. I have what I think is a really good question. As long as it doesn't have to do with deoxyribonucleic acid. No. DNA. It's a question that cuts to the very quick of the flyer you gave me. Put God to the test. And it's a question, it really is a question. I really am going to ask you a question. So bear with me here. To feel the full force of this question that requires a little bit of biblical context, so I'm going to ask everybody to bear with me for a minute to set the context for this question. In Luke 4, Jesus is tempted by Satan. Satan asks Him to throw Himself off the temple and Jesus says, You shall not put God to the test. And I understand the spirit of that point that Jesus is making. When Jesus does that, He's actually alluding to Deuteronomy 6.16, where Moses told the Israelites, Don't put God to the test like you did at Massa. And Massa is where they were thirsty. And they told Moses, Give us some water. And then Moses got angry. Actually, I'm a little off topic here. That's an interesting text because the people actually didn't do anything that bad there. All they did was demand that Moses give them water. And then Yahweh comes to Moses and says, Hey, go strike your staff on the rock at Horeb and water will come out of it. And He does it and water comes out of them. That's a little bit off the main topic of what I'm saying. But also, a little more context for my question. I'm well aware in Christian theology of the importance of faith. Hebrews 11.1, without faith, it is impossible to please God. And whoever would come to Him, or no, Hebrews 11.1 is faith is the assurance of things hoped for and the conviction of things not seen, which relates to the question I'm going to ask you in a moment. And then Hebrews 11.6, without faith, it is impossible to please God. For whoever would come to God must believe that He exists and that He's a rewarder of those who seek Him. Okay, now this relates to putting God to the test. It seems to me, from my knowledge of the Bible, that both the Hebrew Bible or what you would call the Old Testament, which is an insult to Jews, but anyway, the Hebrew Bible and the Christian New Testament through and through, in places almost too numerous to count, Yahweh or Elohim or Jesus Christ, the three main names of God in the Judeo-Christian scriptures, all three of those gods who I know are the same God in Christian theology, they are very concerned with God making Himself known to people in an explicit way with what are called over and over again throughout the Bible signs and wonders. Okay, I have so many written down here, I'm kind of overwhelmed with it all, but just to take a couple examples at the Exodus, signs and wonders given by Yahweh. In fact, Yahweh at the Exodus is so interested in giving, in displaying signs and wonders, He's so into it that He actually tells Moses, I'm going to deliberately harden Pharaoh's heart just so I can show more of my signs and wonders to the world. That's in Exodus. Or another example would be if you jump up to the New Testament, Peter in his great sermon and I think Acts 3 or thereabouts, he talks about the signs and wonders that Jesus performed. And the entire, backing up a little bit, the entire Gospel of John is centered around seven signs that Jesus performed to the world. The first of which was the wedding, turning water to wine at the wedding at Cana. The last of which was healing a man born blind during the festival of lights in Jerusalem. And just before that, raising Lazarus from the dead. So the question is maybe why God doesn't do that today. So, and then if I could give two more examples that really cut to the chase for me here. The Apostle Paul, Saul, I'm setting up the context here for the question. The Apostle Saul, Saul, later the Apostle Paul, who described himself as the chief of sinners. He described himself as the worst sinner in the world. Maybe because he was holding the coat of people who were stoning Stephen to death and stuff like that I guess. So a guy who by his own admission is even worse than me as a sometime, half the time atheist, half the time agnostic, and a person, an evolutionist who was warmly welcomed by the people at your church. So, Paul, the chief of sinners, an unbeliever, got knocked off his horse on the road to Damascus by Jesus who apparently made a personal appearance to him. And I could go, this page has about 20 examples showing that Yahweh, Elohim, Jesua Christos is extremely into manifesting himself to both his people and also even unbelievers. Even the worst of unbelievers. Okay? So with all that as context, I would like to respectfully, I'm asking this respectfully because you know I'm your friend. I'm not asking this in a mocking way at all. I would like to ask why God now, anyway, oh, the ultimate example of God showing himself to people was at the incarnation where Christ who is quote the image of the invisible God becomes a man. That's the ultimate sign that God gave to people. Let me not leave that one out. Okay. So with all this as context, how come God doesn't now show signs and wonders today including right now. Right here, right now. How come he doesn't appear as a burning bush? I'm not joking. You know, light a chair on fire or something. A burning chair. Okay, I'm serious. Or at Pentecost where tongues of fire came down upon people and people from all over the world were blown away because these disciples suddenly started speaking in foreign languages. Like what if, I'm sorry brother, what's your name again? Randy. Like, what if Randy suddenly started speaking to me in Hindi? Okay. Or what if, you know Spanish? I know a little bit of Spanish. What if you suddenly started speaking to me in Spanish? See, that would be incredibly impressive. Right, right. So God he's not he's not too tired. Is God too tired to do this? No. Is God too busy to do this? No. Is God too proud to do this? That's an interesting one. Some might say, oh Dr. Rainbow you're getting up here as an unbeliever and you're asking respectfully, how come God doesn't appear to you? And some people might say, well Almighty God you know, why should he show himself to this upstart arrogant professor at ABC? Why should he do that? But my reply to that and there may be some validity to that but you know what my reply to that would be? According to your scriptures Jesua Christos the third member of the Trinity died naked on a cross for me. That's what it says. I don't believe that. I don't believe that. I'm not trying to pretend that I do but your scriptures say that. He died naked nailed to a Roman cross for me. And as Paul talks about in Romans 5, Paul makes what's called an a fortiori argument. An argument from the greater to the lesser. If the more difficult of two things has happened, how much more so can this simpler of two things have happened? And Paul says in Romans 5, you can help me quote it. He says if Christ died while we were yet sinners if Christ died for us then how much more will he save us through his son. I'm paraphrasing that. We all know that text. If Jesus did that for me, if he died for me naked on a cross with all the shame that's involved, probably defecating like crucified men did when they were crucified. Stuff like that. If he did that for me, do you think he's too proud to show up to me right now? I don't think so. That's my question. Well there's boy, Old Testament, New Testament. Let me just share a few things that come to my mind. You did jump all around in good spots. The Pentecost was the Holy Spirit coming upon the church. And these believers, they repented, they believed and God filled them with his Spirit. And the tongues, the gifts of the Spirit, those were a result of being filled with the Spirit. But then we also read Jesus said, blessed are you that you believe you see me, but blessed are those who believe without seeing. And I think, at least in my life, yes, there was a point where you know what, you show me God and then I'll believe. It's the wrong heart. So I think a person has to come with the right heart and say, Lord, I believe in who you are even if you don't show me. Because showing to me would almost be a force. Well, obviously, God puts a gun to your head, now you believe me? Oh, now I do. You know, it's not coming with the right heart. And also, Yeah, let me finish this one point. On the miracles, the Bible was clear on it was given to authenticate the message of the gospel. That was the whole point of the signs and wonders and miracles. And if you talk to missionaries on the mission field, they are seeing signs and miracles and wonders and things doing marvelous things. Personally, I think we've become so comfortable in America, so arrogant in America, that we don't see God manifesting or revealing himself in the way he could. Go ahead. There's some validity to the point you made about well, the point you just made reiterates what I said from Hebrews 11, 6, that without faith, it is impossible to please God. Right. For whoever would come to God must believe that he exists and that he is a reward of those who seek him. But see, the counter-argument to that would be, there are many places in the Hebrew Judeo-Christian scriptures where God comes blasting in full power to total unbelievers. Two examples, Paul. Paul didn't have any faith in Jesus. Jesus, just all the evidence in that text indicates that Paul was on his way probably to kill more Christians, if anything. And Jesus, you read between the lines, and it's like Jesus saying, hey, Saul, I'm going to come in and nuke you, and I'm going to make you the most powerful exponent of Christianity in all of history. And no ifs, ands, or buts about it. I'm going to do this to you, whether you like it or not. I'm going to create something in you that wasn't there before, which is faith, which is itself a gift from God, according to the Bible. So why not? And also the prophets of Baal, with Elijah. Why don't we get lunch? But let me, oh, we got to go in a minute? Okay. This is the last question. I'm getting the cue here. The prophets of Baal, Elijah and Mark Carmel. Those weren't believers. They were believers in Baal. And he nuked them. And Elijah said, here, douse the wood three times. Well, you have to, it's interesting, in a scripture you quoted, he's a rewarder of those who, you actually forgot a word, diligently seek him. And that word seek is bakash in the Hebrew. It's the heart that's wanting to receive God. So if I've got a hard heart, you better show me or I'm not going to believe. God has no mandate to reveal himself to that type of heart. But also, I love you enough to tell you the truth. I think you're wrestling with some things. And I believe if you said, other thing about Paul, how do we know that he wasn't sitting on his horse going, what am I witnessing? Did we just martyr this guy? He gave the perfect New Testament. He was unschooled. How do we know he's not struggling going, God, show me who you are if you're real. If I'm going in the wrong direction, I need to know. So I think we read into scripture sometimes things that we just don't know. And God could reveal himself because Paul was open and teachable in searching. Because we don't know either way. So we can't read into scripture things that aren't there. So my encouragement would be, if a person truly seeks him, they will find him. Say, God, I want to know you. I want to know you. Show yourself to me. He will answer. Let's get lunch though. For sure, let's get lunch. I took a three hour class of his, evolution class. Brilliant teacher. Thank you for that opportunity too. With that said, nobody knew I was friends with Dr. Rainbow, did they? It's a big surprise. You know what? We are going to end this evening because we've got to go. But we will be open for questions. If you have questions, email us. That's probably the quickest way, the best way. Email our website or come visit us on a Sunday. I usually stay after to answer questions and meet with people. So with that said, I'm actually going to pray. It's okay. We can do that here, right? Lord, I thank you for this time together. God, I pray that you would get this message out to those who need to hear it. Lord, those who are broken, those who are even mocking this message as I spoke, you would pierce their hearts. You would show them who you are. Show them you love them. Show them they need to return from this rebellion. And you will create in them a clean heart. You will renew in them a right spirit if they repent and believe. And we pray this in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen.