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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Some questions to those who would leave the sheep without a shepherd

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Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


Hi Annie,

Thanks for your comments, I need not add any more you said it very well. :-D
I enjoy your wisdom and discernment, is He not just wonderful, oh what glorious truths He shares
with His children. I love Him better,and gooder
every day. Country boy talk, you will have to interpret.

Talk with you all soon,

Love to all,


 2006/3/17 19:47Profile

Joined: 2006/3/12
Posts: 89
Georgia, USA


Pastorfrin I have enjoyed reading your answers to the questions. I was wondering if you see any difference between the compassionate shepherds that you have described and the pastors who are CEOs of corporate America churches?

Jeff Smith

 2006/3/17 22:27Profile


Love and appreciate you too Pastor.

Have a beautiful weekend !

Bless you.

 2006/3/18 9:53

 Re: Some questions to those who would leave the sheep without a shepherd

Hi pastorfrin, thanks for your reply.

I get you, and I agree we need 'oversight'.

So we could ask the question this way.
Some questions for those who would leave the sheep without apostles, prophets, evangelist,
pastor/shepherd and teachers.

If Jesus is the cheif Shepherd as stated above,
does that not make the people Peter is talking
to in Vs. 1-3. [1 Peter 5] under shepherds? You Think?

I had to look this up.

(Young) 1 Peter 5
1 Elders who [are] among you, I exhort, who [am] a fellow-elder, and a witness of the sufferings of the Christ, and of the glory about to be revealed a partaker,
2 feed the flock of God that [is] among you, overseeing not constrainedly, but willingly, neither for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind,
3 neither as exercising lordship over the heritages, [b]but patterns [u]becoming[/u] of the flock[/b],
4 and at the manifestation of the chief Shepherd, ye shall receive the unfading crown of glory.
5 In like manner, ye younger, be subject to elders, and all to one another subjecting yourselves; with humble-mindedness clothe yourselves, because God the proud doth resist, but to the humble He doth give grace;

When I read it in the nKJV, I noticed this phrase, '[u]serving[/u] as overseers' which I'm glad to say Young opened out a little, making it harder to pass over in reading, or neglect in doing conscientiously.

The KJV puts a slightly different (and predictable) slant on the same concept, which (completely?) obscures the original spirit of the exhortation ... 'taking the oversight [thereof],'

EDIT: I like Young's use of the word 'becoming'. This is a realistic proposition/aspiration for young/new saints to embrace. It is also a very relevant concept for those of us who have a long slow birth into the kingdom. You may think that's unscriptural, but, sometimes one feels one can never have a 'scriptural' testimony... until coming across the tender heart of God in Young's translation.

Also, I've realised your [i]singular[/i] (lone) 'shepherd' in the title of the thread, is what some of us are against.

But, it is rare to find a [i]body of elders[/i] who share oversight, such as philologos describes in the church where he is one of those in that 'body of elders'.

 2006/3/18 10:23

Joined: 2006/2/7
Posts: 296


Hello, I am reading this thread of wonderful dialogue and am sparked to respond. Pastor Frin you wrote about what to do if there is tradition and a 'lording over' the sheep occuring. Thank you for those words. They are concurrent with my experience right now. I have been desiring to leave my current assembly but have not done so yet. To leave and run from the problem is not the answer and I bless God for allowing me to remain. Oh, it is a struggle to attend even one more meeting and yet I go, pained in my heart. I thank you for your gracious words that have leapt up in my heart as confirmation to what must take place, the proper order of things (if I may say so), before leaving my current assembly. So, one question if I may. How should, properly and in order, I breach the subject with the pastor there? Is it best done one-on-one? With my wife and his?
thank you


 2006/3/18 11:57Profile

 Re: Some questions to those who would leave the sheep without a shepherd

Lets throw out the old.

God's mercies are new every morning, do you want old mercy?

Better yet, do you want old coffee?

Do you want an old experience in God or a new one?

Do you want old meat thats been chewed or do you want new meat?

Do you want to drink milk thats curdled or do you want a nice cold glass of fresh milk?

Do you want to eat vegetables that have gone slimy or do you want new veggies?

Do you want to keep hearing the same old message at Easter or do you want to experince a resurrection?

Do you want to go backwards or forward?

Do you want to go back to Pentecost or have a new one?

Do want to stay in Babylon or do you want to live in the New Jerusalem?

There will always be people that will want to "go back" to the good ole days.

I was one of those people, I realized that God doesn't relive the past, He is a God of the living not of the dead. He never uses the same things twice. His methods are new all the time.

So all you buzzards who want to live in the desert and fly around and land on a piece of meat that has been rotting in the sun, go to it, all the power to you.

And us Eagles who fly higher in God will light on living meat and swoop down and take it by force.

 2006/3/18 13:07

 Re: Some questions to those who would leave the sheep without a shepherd


The only way I can make sense of your post, is to conclude you have completely misunderstood this thread. Is that possible? Could you draw in a few quotes to your response, to help us get our bearings on your flight? Thanks. ;-)

 2006/3/18 14:31

Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406

 Re: so, one question if I may

Hi Ruach34,
answer: In Love, In Love, In Love, any other way brings destructive results.
Make sure you are not acting in the flesh. Take your reasons before the Lord.
Have you discussed this problem with your pastor
before now? If not do so and leave room for solutions to the problem.
If all this has been done without results, then follow the leading of the Lord. If He directs you to do so, then talk to your pastor alone, its no one elses business. If you wish for your wife to be with you, thats fine, but you do the talking. Avoid accusations and fault finding. Do not raise your voice even if he does. A shouting match will solve nothing. BE HUMBLE, If you leave the church, never, never, speak against the man. Let the Lord's will be done.

Praying for you all,


 2006/3/19 21:29Profile

Joined: 2006/2/7
Posts: 296


Thank you, Pastor Frin. Yes, some issues have been encountered already and a cold shoulder has been given. I love truth and honesty and have desired a true assembling of ourselves with transparency but feel at my current assembly that is not on the radar screen. I thank you for your words. I will ask the Lord to give the impulse of His will and His grace to orchestrate the situations. Wow, where would we be without faith in Christ Jesus. O, for those that have cried out 'Lord, Lord,' yet when finally standing before Him, He says, 'I never knew you.' I weep for those...
May grace and peace be multiplied to you Pastor Frin and all reading...


 2006/3/24 20:20Profile

Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406

 Re:I was wondering if you see any difference...

Hi Jeff,
Sorry I have not responded sooner. I have sought the Lord for the right answer and it seems the more I try to soften it the more He strengthens it.So here goes,I pray this is received by our brothers and sisters with an open heart.
The answer to your question is yes, I do see a difference. To the one its a calling, which has taken much preperation. The compassionate shepherd did not happen out of four years of seminary. They were created from the heart of the
Lord, by becoming a lump of clay, being shaped by the Masters own hands, until they said Lord thy will be done, not mine but Thine.
The other is a professional, who serves the will
of the people. They minister in the flesh, to the flesh, to receive the desires of the flesh.
Matt.7:15-20; Phil.3:18,19
They prosper here because most Americans use the
worlds plumbline and definition for the will of God. So we can't completely blame these professional corporate pharisees, they are just
being good capitalist, giving the people what they want and have flocked to them so to receive.
These people have little or no concern for the
Word or Will of God, if they did they would read
and study it. They only use His Word to confirm the lust and desires of the flesh. Their lack of compassion for the lost, for the widow and orphan, and the poor and homeless only confirm that they are unsaved, uncaring, and unrepentant. They have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof. They heap to themselves
teachers having itching ears to tell them what they want to hear. 2Tim.3&4.
Its the blind leading the blind and the Lord says leave them alone for they will both fall into the ditch. They do not want to hear or know the truth. Matt.15:13,14.
The religious system in America is not the Church of Jesus Christ, its corporate pastors serve the flesh and not the Spirit, and its time for true men and women of God to stand up and say WAKE UP AMERICA YOU ARE LIVING A LIE!

Jesus said in Matt.7:21 not everyone that saith
unto me Lord, Lord shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Read Ezek. 9 The destroying weapon is in their hands. The one clothed in linen is going about marking the people of God. Who is He marking? All those that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. Where does the destroying begin? At the sanctuary of the Lord. People its time to stop thinking about ourselves and what we want or think, and start doing the will of our Father
who art in heaven. His will is that not one should perish but that all should come to repentance. Lets start sighing and crying for the abominations that be done in the midst of us. Stop thinking we are rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing when we are really wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked: Rev.3:17. Listen to the counsel, of our Lord Jesus Christ, Answer the knock, hear His voice sigh and cry and we WILL see THE MIGHTY HAND of GOD. REPENT and see the GLORY of the LORD!

With all my love to you all,


 2006/3/24 20:33Profile

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