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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Some questions to those who would leave the sheep without a shepherd

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Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406

 Some questions to those who would leave the sheep without a shepherd

I believe we are living in a time of change. Their are those who are ready to throw away all the old in order to bring in the new. Much the same as what happened in the sixties rebellion.
May I say change of methods does not guarantee
the move of God.
One of these changes is to do away with all the
shepherds.I have a few questions concerning this
type of change.

Will you dedicate your entire life to serving
one another, 24 hous a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year?

Will you spend 5 to 6 hours a day in study and prayer, work a fulltime job, call on those in need, and take nothing in return?

Will you live in a house where anyone of Gods
creatures have access i.e. scorpions, snakes, rats, cockroaches, frogs, skunks and yes even those who would take your life?

Will you be there to hold the hand and pray with
one who is passing, no matter what their appearence may be?

Will you search out and find a lost brother or
sister, even if you must enter into a stench that will make you gag?

Will you hold the body of a little girl a police officer hands you with tire treads across her chest, or one who's head has been cracked open
like a walnut.Or a young man who has been split in two by a drunk driver?

Will you live without, do without, and go without
so others may have something?

Will you spend your life being judged, your wife judged and your children judged, by those who have never walked in your shoes?

Will you crawl out of your sick bed and go minister to one who is sick?

Will you continue to do these things without thought of a 401k, a retirement home, or a condo
by the sea. Willing to finish only when he calls you home to be with Him?

Will you like countless numbers of men and women through out history, deny yourself, take up your cross daily and follow Him?

Will you do all these things in the name of the
Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him?

If you will, then God Bless You, you have discovered what it cost to change.

If you will not, then take heed, Luke 14:33 says
Whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

Before we throw out the old, maybe we should count the cost.

yours for christ,


 2006/3/13 20:10Profile

Joined: 2006/3/12
Posts: 89
Georgia, USA

 Re: Some questions to those who would leave the sheep without a shepherd

Dear Shepherd,

Your questions are right on the mark. Let me ask a few more.

Could it be that some people are not trying to "throw out" the true shepherds, like you, but are tired of enduring pulpiteers who do not care for the sheep? Didn't Jesus call them hirelings?

What would happen to the sheep if there was a true shepherd, one as you described for every twelve sheep?

Of course the only way that would be possible is if the shepherds truly did lay down their lives. If they worked a forty plus hour per week job to support themselves and never slept or spent time with their families. Is that what God is asking for?

Or maybe instead of throwing out the shepherds we should throw out the system. Where in the New Testament does it discuss the office of a pastor? Where does it say that he should have absolute rule and dominational governance over the sheep?

Where does scripture endorse using the holy tithe of God's people to build temples?

Maybe if we would throw out the ideology of the world system of kingdoms and rulers we could begin to use the tithe to support true shephers who will lay down their lives for the sheep.

I know that this sounds radical but Jesus words to the religious establishment were pretty crazy sounding also. Didn't they say He had a demon?

I'm open to a better way.


Jeff Smith

 2006/3/13 21:10Profile

Joined: 2005/1/5
Posts: 432


Some good questions...

But are some of these questions in reference to specific events or things?

 2006/3/13 21:30Profile

Joined: 2005/1/13
Posts: 59

 Re: Some questions to those who would leave the sheep without a shepherd

I won't be doing all those things, Pastorfrin, honestly... That was a pretty indirect post so I guess you were asking me as much as anyone(?). I just won't be doing all those things.

Are those the things you normally do? Not a challenge, I've just not met many people who actually give warnings like that and live them every day of their own lives. Talk to ya soon.

 2006/3/13 21:34Profile

 Re: Some questions to those who would leave the sheep without a shepherd

God bless you brother

I have a deep love and respect for pastors like you, who sacrifice everything to take care of Gods flock.

Your a rarity these days brother. Many pastors are only concerned with NUMBERS, and how their ministry is viewed in the eyes of the public. They want BIG churches, with BIG money coming in, and BIG shot money people in the congregation. They could care less about the poor, or taking care of those that don't have a penny to thithe.

I admire men like you and am not worthy to preach in the pulpits of you beloved bretheren. I get to go to a differnet church every time I preach. But men like you have to bear the burden of the church and dealing with difficult people and the reproach of preaching the Word of God.

It's like you live in a fishbowl. Your life is put on display for the whole world to see.

I truly have a deep LOVE for you brother, and your true sacrifice. Please don't quit. Those people, even if they don't appreciate you, need you very much.

You will be greatly rewarded for your labor.

In Christ
J-bird :-D

 2006/3/13 22:06

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710


Philippians 3:7-8 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

This is what we are to give up for Christ, any works that we think makes us a better person for Christ.

Philippians 3:4-7 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

Paul forsaketh all that he was for the excellency of the knowledge of knowing Christ Jesus, to preach Christ and Him Crucified and with all that Paul knew in, of, and by Christ all Paul wanted was still to "know Him."

What is a mans cross? Can he carry it and save himself? Who knows what the cross of a man is?
Can a man who's cross is appointed by Christ carry it by himself?

Paul's cross was appointed from his mother's womb. He was appointed to suffer for Christ's sake.

Galatians 1:15-16 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Acts 9:15-16 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

This was Paul's cross, The Cross of Christ, Phl 4:13 I can do all things through Christ who strengtheneth me.

Let us win Christ and all things will be added unto us.

In Christ: Phillip


 2006/3/14 1:44Profile

Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 671
Los Angeles, California


[b][size=medium]"The [u]LORD[/u] is MY Shepherd, I shall not want"[/size][/b] ;-)

Patrick Ersig

 2006/3/14 2:01Profile

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710


Biblical Hermeneutics professors, these are hermenutical foxes in the hen house I worry about. They prove everything by hermenutics and most generally forget the Holy Spirit Comforter Teacher The Father sent by the prayer of Christ Himself, to reveal all things to the believer, even hermenutical error.

Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

John 3:16-21 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Not in self. By this belief, even to those that believe on His name are son's of God.

Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

1Jo 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 John 5:11-13 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

In Christ: Phillip


 2006/3/14 5:53Profile

Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri


Hi pastorfrin,

Before we throw out the old, maybe we should count the cost.

Ah yes, so easy to be the armchair quarterback these days. Pathetic that the attitude creeps into the Body of Christ and becomes the attitude of folk towards the Shepherds.

Its easy to talk up things. I knew a 'pastor' once who was also a Sheriff. Some of the things he told me were horrible. I have known of pastors to have to deal with things that would drop most of the complainers. Imagine having to tell a bleeding dad his 13 year old daughter was killed in the same accident by a drunk driver; found in a concrete ditch. Imagine having to answer all the "WHY! WHY! WHY's!" at the hospital as loved ones are passing and families are looking for answers. I wonder if the complainers ever sat at a hospital ALL night? Or ever get out of bed at 3:00 AM to counsel with a congregational member?

We all want to get back to the NT model. Right? Its easy to talk it up, but we need some boots on the ground really ministering in these functions. The role of a pastor or 'shepherd' is one of tremendous stress and pain. the nay sayers had bit their tongues off had they known the lives of some of the men that they have put their tongue on. "It hath offended" they had said. Many have allowed their tongue to cause them to sin and have no clue. Like Mirriam and Moses. We need to be careful how we trifle in God's affairs.

Robert Wurtz II

 2006/3/14 9:40Profile

Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528

 Re: Some questions to those who would leave the sheep without a shepherd


If more pastors and those in leadership WERE like the examples you have given, the church would not be in the state it is.....the "sheep" look to the Shepherd to show the way. Most of the sheep are not looking for a "perfect" Shepherd, they are just looking for one who is truly following THE SHEPHERD and not the world. Because many Shepherds have lost the way and become not much different than the world, the sheep have been led astray or they scattered. I highly doubt most sheep who love THE SHEPHERD are very happy to have been scattered. They WANT to have a shepherd(earthly) who is listening and obeying THE SHEPHERD because they know they will be led to good food ---this type of shepherd will show evidence of this faithfulness to THE SHEPHERD by his life---- in word, deed and true abiding faith.

Concerning the shepherds though, like I tell my children, if something doesn't apply to you, don't take it to heart. If you, as a Pastor, are doing those things the Lord has called you to, do them with joy----knowing HE is well pleased (you will never please ALL men, so don't even try). If however, the sheep have real issues, don't belittle those either. I think there is fault on both sides----and it all stems from a lack of genuine commitment to the Lord and to the Body of Christ.

Pastorfin, many of the sheep just want to see examples like that of Paul............"who count it all dung" for the cause of Christ----to LOVE as Christ loves. That is what encourages those who are weaker in the faith to keep going and persevere---because they see others do it (more mature in the faith), and know, if they too lean on the Lord, they will make it through whatever difficult time they are in.

May YOU be abundantly blessed with all SPIRITUAL blessings as you seek and do HIS will. In Him, Cindy


 2006/3/14 10:29Profile

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