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Joined: 2005/1/7
Posts: 267
Morehead, KY

 John Wesley died poor coz he didn't read the bible.

I heard someone actually say this once and wanted to get some reaction from you all on this. The theory is this; Luther and Wesley and all the other church fathers that did not preach the "God wants you to be rich" gospel (which is no gospel at all) died poor beacuse they did not have the "fullness of the revelation of God." Yet we have preachers by the droves preaching about money and money and if they have time money. Money conferences and so on--but how many of them are doing the amazing revolutionary work that Luther did or Wesley or Barinerd or Sunday or Spurgeon? I really was struck worng by this little statment. Paul died a pauper, was he lacking revelation? How about John Baptist? what about me? If i die a poor man or a middle class man did i miss the fullness of the revelation? gimmie Jesus--that's all i need---Any thoughts on this?



 2006/3/11 15:11Profile

 Re: John Wesley died poor coz he didn't read the bible.

David this is funny.

About as funny as what this same type said about Paul ... that he wasn't healed of his thorn in the flesh, because he didn't have enough faith and/or the "revelation" that Wesley and those lacked.

Or that Job got what he got "because he [u]said[/u], 'what I had feared has come upon me'".

It never ends ... going "beyond what is written".

Or the best one from this camp is, "We're gods".

Hmmmm - like they say, "Where have we heard that before ?"

I remember when Hagin first came out with this and it caught fire {from below} in our Churches ... so by now, I can't even get wired up over it anymore ... it's been so long now, I've just got to laugh and save my tears for those who [u]want[/u] the Truth, but can't get it, because of this apostatized "church" ... always going beyond what is written. :-x (O.K. maybe I 'am' just a little 'wired' :)

 2006/3/11 17:44

Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


The theory is this; Luther and Wesley and all the other church fathers that did not preach the "God wants you to be rich" gospel (which is no gospel at all) died poor beacuse they did not have the "fullness of the revelation of God.""fullness of the revelation of God."

This shows how nutty people are for money. Honestly, I really don't even think these prosperity preachers believe what they're selling. It's just that they have discovered the secret to wealth in America: convince enough people that you have the secret to wealth.

WOF Prosperity preachers remind me of this Charles Shultz "Peanuts" cartoon...

Lucy is standing behind a booth with a sign that reads" Advice on how to get rich for $5.00." Linus walks up and puts a five dollar bill in her hand. Lucy stuffs the bill in her pocket, and stares into space without saying anything untill Linus finally speaks up, "Hey, aren't you going to show me how to get rich?"

Lucy holds her hand out again and replies, "You weren't paying attention."


Mike Compton

 2006/3/11 19:25Profile

Joined: 2005/11/11
Posts: 57
Grand Saline, TX

 Re: John Wesley died poor coz he didn't read the bible.

God Wants to Bless His Children.

By blessing His children, though, I don't think He is going to load up His "faithful few" with beatiful treasures to die of moth and rust for our own personal enjoyment.

The prosperity Gospel sees Wesley and Luther dying as poor men. It must be extremely awful to live a Christian life where you have no money because it's all being spent on doing that whole advancing the Kingdom thing. Passing on to see God face to face at the judgment would much more fulfilling if a Christian left a Hummer behind - a sign of his Faith - compared to one who financed missionaries and assisted in the salvation of thousands.

The prosperity Gospel forgets one thing in its cry from the pulpit - "Do not love the world.." If a true relationship with God depends on how much you can get out of Him instead of how much He can get out of you, you are part of a selfish, man oriented, man-centered, pleasing to the eye, moeney seminar in place of church service religion.

It's all about God's Glory. "May the Lamb that was slain recieve the reward of His suffering."

Not: "May the sinner that was saved receive the reward of satisfied customer."

In His,

I Pet 4:2


 2006/3/11 19:33Profile

Joined: 2005/4/26
Posts: 376
Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania


:-) You guys should lighten up on these Word of Faith people. After all, wasn't Job's friends Word of Faith?

Gary Eckenroth

 2006/3/11 20:07Profile

Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924


the thing is whatever wealth the Lord bestows on us is not for us to live in multi-million dollar mansions with the finest furnishings and parade it on mtv cribs along with a fleet of expensive tricked out cars...the idea is that the whole body of Christ should benefit from it. case in point in Acts chapt 2 vs 42-47 the word says this:

[b]42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. 43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. 44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; 45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. 46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from F5 house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, 47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.[/b]

and then in acts chapt 4 the word says this:

[b]32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. 33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. 34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, 35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. 36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus, 37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.[/b]

note vs 34, none of them lacked for anything because they all [i]shared[/i] what they had. this shows what we ought to do with our wealth. however we're not often that open coz we like the concept of "my stuff is my stuff and i'll take whatever i can of yours too..."

the bottom line though is that the reason that these believers were so able to do this is outlined in vs 32, they were of 1 mind, heart and soul in the Holy Spirit of God and so their sharing so well was a function of this oneness in the Spirit.

for us to come to that place we will have to be pushed into it by dire economic circumstances where survial will mean banding together. out of that depseration and despair we will indeed cry out to God who will hear us and pour out His Spirit on us anew and we'll see (finally) what we've so sought and what the Ravenhills and them prayed for untill they died, REVIVAL!!! Revival will come when we are in a place of complete desperation where we [i]have[/i] no choice but to seek God.

Lord send your REVIVAL!!!AMEN.

Farai Bamu

 2006/3/12 0:26Profile

Joined: 2005/7/3
Posts: 233
Lancashire, England


I had to repsond to this one,

Mat 8:20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but [b]the Son of man hath not where to lay his head. [/b]

did Jesus lack revelation?


 2006/3/12 4:05Profile

Joined: 2006/3/11
Posts: 1

 Re: John Wesley died poor coz he didn't read the bible.

PR 17:5 He who mocks the poor shows contempt for their Maker;
whoever gloats over disaster will not go unpunished.


PR 22:2 Rich and poor have this in common:
The LORD is the Maker of them all.


PR 28:6 Better a poor man whose walk is blameless
than a rich man whose ways are perverse.

 2006/3/12 4:55Profile

Joined: 2005/12/11
Posts: 69
Devon, England


[i] For the love of money is the root of all evil: [u]which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith[/u], and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness, fight the good fight of faith ....1 Timothy 6:10-11[/i]

It's the LOVE of money that is the root of all evil. (Many people omit 'the love of'.) Interesting that Paul says that having coveted money, people have erred from the faith. We can see that's true! And 'coveting' is one of the Ten Commandments.

This "prosperity gospel" is a big curse on the church worldwide today. Prosperity cannot be gauged by $$ or ££ or whatever currency your country has. It disqualifies the two-thirds world who are poor and not at all rich with cash. We in the one-third world (the west) are VERY rich ; the poorest of us are rich in comparison. It makes for a very wrong gospel when the have-nots are made to feel second class Christians because they do not have this world's goods.

It makes a total mockery of the parable Jesus told of the woman who willingly put her last two coins into the temple offering; the rich gave out of their abundance; they did not even miss it. She gave of her last chance to buy food to keep her alive. She gave all.

The poor old apostles were excluded to - to quote Peter "Silver and gold have I none, but such as I have give I thee - in the Name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk! I know I would prefer to have been walking instead of being lame from birth; money cannot buy healing.

... or can it? I once overheard someone say "I have paid my money, now I expect God to heal me"!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?:-?



 2006/3/12 8:04Profile

Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777

 Re: feed the poor

the thing is whatever wealth the Lord bestows on us is not for us to live in multi-million dollar mansions

In this day of world awareness we have no for excuse for hording our wealth while millions of our brothers and sisters around the world are suffering in poverty. We will be judged some day.

I don't know why this fact passes over the radar of the Wealth and Health community. It shoud be obvious that there is a lot of poverty. Besides, it should be obvious in scripture that we are responsible for our fellow man - ie the disadvantaged.



 2006/3/12 8:05Profile

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