Santa Clara, CA
I don't know, this is something that I felt was being given far too lenient a treatment considering the severity ...
| 2006/3/12 22:53||Profile|
Weighing my words here because of the "emotions" that I mentioned that I have for all who have written on this thread is very difficult, as Compton replied in kind.
The only way that I can respond at all, is by taking the time to try to get to know you all.
How difficult that's been has been the hurdle of a lifetime for me, personally.
Just to stick to you and me, for now.
The first time you jumped me, I almost fell over, the second time, I cried, the third time I shot back.
Now, why did either of us ever shoot back at each other ... because we haven't been eyeball to eyeball yet and truly don't "know" each other.
My other side of this is ... if I disagree with what you say Mike, would you want my first words to be, "Mike, this is rubbish." ?
You are merely expressing your "opinion", so why should I disrespect your "opinion".
Now if you said, "Jesus is not God" ... now then, I'd sure be tempted to use those words, and probably worse ... :-) .
Pow, I'd come after ya.
This whole thread is opinions. Not necessarily "use it and lose it" doctrines.
It's one of those times that even I have to say, "We'll see."
I would like to know your opinion on all else that was in my post.
Mike, to change the subject sort of, I need prayer today BIG TIME. No Joke.
Back in June of 2002, I was bit by one ant and because of that, I have been disabled ever since.
It triggered an immune-response that is now eating me alive.
Last summer, I got bit on 3 separate occasions, and those bites lasted 3 months each.
I saw a Missionary Doctor, who is my GP and asked him WHY I get such severe reactions to ants.
He said, because my immune system is so terribly whacked from having Lyme Disease and M.E. for so long. And that each time I am bit by another ant, the reaction will be worse.
Well today, I stood on an ant hill of all things and have been bit about 10 times.
At first I thought it was twice that many because of how fast I blow up from these bites.
Please pray and anyone else who would that this doesn't turn into the worse trip ever for me.
Not trying to change the subject, but this is the prayer thread and I do need prayer desperately and even as heavy as a thread that this is ... it's hard for me to keep my mind off of what going on in my body right now.
It's spreading through my whole body now.
I will call my Dr tomorrow, but I just want prayer to keep things together until then.
Thank you and whomever else.
Mike, I think we can disagree, but just by hitting the sentences we disagree with and not the person.
I love you very much and always have. (believe it or not ;-) )
You're a special dude and only God knows the pain that each of us have been through, that causes us to post as each of us does.
God Bless you and your work here.
God Bless each and every SI poster here too.
Love one another.
| 2006/3/12 23:23|
May God restore your body Annie, according to His rich grace.
| 2006/3/12 23:52|
Quote:At least it is based on my experience of God speaking to me personally, and giving me insight for others from time to time, and my observation of charismatic churches operating effectively in this realm, for more years than I care to count.
This is all a bunch of rubbish.
Quote:My answer does/did not prevent Joshua from answering.
Let him answer for himself.
Quote:It depends on one's defintion of 'a church'. Is it a place where people gather to acknowledge the Name of God at various times in the week, or is it the people, wherever they may be.
But destroying a church...
This has a bearing on Joshua himself, as part of the local body of those who know the Lord, regardless of where or with whom he meets on a Sunday or any other time. Those of us who know the Lord don't stop getting revelation just because Sunday is over, or because we've left the church premises. You know that.
There is also a phrase in Rev 2:9 and 3:9 -synagogue of Satan - which is very strong language. There is a proper meaning to that phrase and I'm not trying to interject it here as anything but an example of the way language can be used to convey meaning.
When Joshua said God is going to destroy 'a church', the only sense which can be made of that is that He is displeased with the people who gather together under the name of 'a church'. There is the strong implication that they 'are not' 'a church' (in reality)..... which is why God is giving a warning.
Quote:[b]How do you know it's nonsense? Please answer this[/b].
Have heard enough of this kind of nonsense before
Does it make you feel uneasy to think of God answering the prayers of those who've been praying He'll do something for those people to wake them up?
Quote:I don't understand this part of the sentence.... 'make note of it without consequence'....? .... I hope you will explain.
and to think that anyone of us can come here and make note of it without consequence,
Quote:Again, what do you mean by 'good reason'?
without good reason,
Are we not discussing Joshua's predicament in having rushed into giving a word to the whole church, [i]perhaps[/i] a little too hastily? Perhaps not? How would we know if it was too hastily or not? Isn't it important to obey the Lord? Yes! But sometimes He has to say 'While I like your enthusiasm, not like that next time, please.'
Quote:Are you rejecting the Lord's word to the churches at the beginning of Revelation? Or do you mean you'd rather Joshua had posted that reference?
without scriptural precedent,
As Joshua was not to the first to receive this word from the Lord, it appears that he was the judge of another brother's word from God.
I hear what Annie has recommended to Joshua regarding contacting Chip Brogden's ministry, but I have a deal of sympathy with anyone who is used to moving according to the Spirit's leading the rest of the time, being asked suddenly to question [i]this word[/i], more than others previously received.
It's a bit like asking the person who is used to praying for the sick and seeing them healed, to stop and question before praying for someone to be raised from the dead, because it appears to our human thinking that this is a 'bigger' thing for which God has asked one to have faith. I see the human logic, but nothing spiritual to commend it.
Quote:A person who is used to communing with the Lord and his Father in heaven, may not feel this fear. Faith works by love, and Joshua has had many experiences of hearing from God, on which he has acted, with the results which he expected. You are asking him to have less faith in this word from God because [i][b]you[/b][/i] are frightened? It is a continuous walk, being born again. It is not as if this word has come out of the blue after years of silence from God. Joshua is interacting with Him all the time in many different situations with people both Christian and non-Christian. IF he is completely off centre on this one word, then the Lord will correct him ... yes, perhaps through us... but more likely through the experience he's living through right now, of facing people's reaction to what he's shared both in 3D and on this forum.
without fear of just Who it is we have to give account to,
Quote:God destroying 'a church' [u]is[/u] a spiritual event if it happens. I didn't need to add anything to it.
to spiritualise this
Quote:It's not a matter of 'without question'. It's a matter of faith. I cannot argue that Joshua did not hear from God. God has not said that to me.
I have met Joshua, and the Spirit gave me exactly the same burden that evening, as Joshua received. I would have done things slightly differently, next, but God definitely moved in answer to Joshua's prayer, and I have no reason to think or believe [i]on principle[/i], that God could NOT have said what Joshua claims He did.
What I would say, as I did earlier, is that this is a learing experience - for Joshua (and for me) - to see the kind of responses which have followed the leading prayer request.
My instinct is to listen to what the Lord is, or will say to me, if anything, through the Spirit, and to hold Joshua steady in the Spirit, until this choppy sea has settled. There is nothing to be gained by God or for God, by taking the view that Joshua [i]must[/i] be wrong.... and God could not have said that to him.... therefore somehow we all have to put him right.
No. God will put Joshua right, if there is any putting right to be done, because Joshua is the one who has to continually refine his spiritual hearing, if this situation is a) wrong or b) to be avoided in future or c) not to be avoided in future because 'it' is/was God's will.
Quote:I could say the same to you, but I'm not sure what the point would be.
Your reasonings are absurd and without biblical precedence.
As it happens, I was in the room the first time the prophecies about the effect of the death of Princess Diana came forth from the Lord.
At the time, they were so absurd as to make one feel most uncomfortable. The more uncomfortable thing still, is that they came to pass some years later, just as I had heard prophesied several times. I'm a bit sorry I have had this experience, but it makes me less willing to jump on the bandwagon of doubt to which you invite me.
Having said all this, I am aware this word may not come to pass in the way some - perhaps Joshua too - might expect it, if it comes to pass in any way at all. But, that is not a reason to remove all brotherly support from Joshua in his effort to obey God as he understood himself to have been challenged.
In the depths of my heart, I want to believe God is going to disturb that church sufficiently for the Holy Spirit to begin moving there and bring about the changes He desires. That would be glorious. And that would constitute the destruction of the spiritual edifice which exists there at the moment.
| 2006/3/13 8:06|
| Re: Prayer Request - God's Truth|
I don't know, but I 'think' I see where the mix up could have started for all of us here.
Hello, I'm now in a 'tough' spot.
My best friend and I received a Word from God that God is going to destroy a church within 3 years. I ended up delievering the word.
News about this is spreading like wildfire in my city. My church in some respects is receiving chastisments about it, because of my membership with them. My pastor thinks that I was in instrument of Satan on that. Also, the church 'I' condemned was the church I have/my friend has, affections for the pastors 2 daughters. (so that's tough).
I know this church somewhat well. I'm not best friends with these people but a friend none-the-less. And God spoke this to my heart. The delievery of the word was in error (and I repent of that, and will repent publicly of that) but the word itself wasn't.
[u]So my prayer request is, that God CONFIRMS His word, with NUMEROUS witnesses, not just 2 or 3, but a PROFOUND amount, so that it's INDESPUTABLE that this word is from God.
Me and my friend are praying now, that God takes these 'judgemental' words from our lips for the next 2 years in our life. We are rejecting them completly, but for this season. "Now, is not the time."
Please Pray for us.[/u]
What I see here is ...
I think #1 - the fact that this was brought here at all and for what reason, judging by these opening words above ?
#2 - those words "Profound amount of witnesses" could either mean our opinion is wanted or not ?
#3 - I think the enemy is using this to divide this Body ... us here at SI, who have come to love each other deeply.
#4 -[u] To destroy the credibility of some very dear sisters and brothers.[/u]
#5 - And if I may give my opinion here, without it being called a bunch of rubbish .... I do detect a "young person's" pride in this and the 'love of him' by others can have a blinding affect to the "logicalness" of this entire thread, the subject matter and why it was started.
There are so many lousey-rotten-nonBiblical-abusive Churches out there, I wish the Lord would deal with every single one of them ... but according to HIS Word ... the Bad ones will gain the power and ascendancy and the good ones will be pad-locked. :-(
This should not be allowed to personally cause a division between all of us and Joshua, I pray you never post anything like this again, that "appears" as if you are looking for "opinions or confirmations" just to later let us know that you never wanted our opinions, unless they cheered you on.
Sorry, but if I saw 'The Body' of believers here, having to take sides against each other because of some 'phenomena' that I've 'personally' experienced ... I would see the harm I've caused the Body with my 'own thing'.
Jealousy for the Body's Unity here should have come first in your mind on this thread ... not the posting of what you feel are your exploits.
If we differ on "teachings" here, that is one thing ... but this has been a big tadoo over someone's "prophetic accuracy".
How on earth can that be "proved" enough for us to risk Rifts here over it ?
Josh, you haven't posted on here enough for me to believe you care about all of us, as much as you care about "your own words".
I don't know what type Churches you attend down there ... if they are linked to Pensacola or what ? But something is amiss here and I think this thread has just been a major attack on SI's members and threatens 'friendships' here.
Just my feelings based upon your first post quoted above and judging this action by it's FRUIT.
We are to judge things/actions/persons by their FRUIT.
What you've basically done in a nut-shell is ... post that you are looking for something out of us by posting it ... "What" I don't know .... and then when the mess starts between brothers and sisters over your personal prophecy, you disappear basically.
Sister Dorcas has an extremely large and 'protective of other's' heart ... and I think her heart is being put to the test here by this.
If you bring something to this Forum, you have to realize you are going to generate responses from a 100 viewpoints ..... So why [b]DID[/b] you post this [b]here ?[/b]
| 2006/3/13 15:08|
Santa Clara, CA
Do I dare ...
First the 'qualifers'.
I am not 'angry' as to what will follow.
But I do need to be rather blunt here.
The one person missing from this whole equation is the poster himself.
There is far too much meddling, defending and putting words into our brothers mouth intentional or otherwise, why all the answering and explanations to questions directed to him?
In the name of 'playing the ball and not the man' am finding a great deal of this something on the order of spiritual physchology, it's still rubbish and nonsense as it applies to the matter at hand in my stinking opinion and that we may deal with at a later point, have no fear nor anything to gain nor hide and may well need to be rebuked for whatever hypocrisy, duplicity, choice of words ... good grief, am not about to defend anything here, this is far off the issue at hand.
I really hope you are not swayed by anything you are hearing from anyone here, but that you test all things by Gods word, including what you have already delivered. From what little you have told us in asking for prayer over this originaly has generated a number of questions and concerns. I am coming down rather forcefully because of the severity of the word choosen, "Destroy" and if anything it is a prevention in damage control if you might, to yourself and to others. The fact that you came asking for confirmation after the fact, that you stated your timing was off, that you wrote this on a piece of paper as to be annyonomous, the lack of any scriptural warrant ... most of these questions have been asked already, but they raise serious red flags not the least of which for everyone else here is ... Does anyone really take these things seriously? One of the great problems in our modern day 'prophetic' utterances is the lack of any real seriousness back of it. Bluntly, I dont think most of the hearers nor even the speakers themselves really believe it deep dowm inside. It has gotten to a point where anybody can speak in Gods Name without a true realisation of just Who it is they are prepurting to utter things prophetically speaking. Will this even been remembered 3 months from now, let alone 3 years? Frankly I do not think that what is termed 'prophetic' as a gift of prophecy is all of this sort of prediction business anyway, but that's another issue.
Bottom line. Brother, are you serious and have you taken in to account just how serious this 'word' is? Not sincere, have no question about that, but serious. It is serious business.
| 2006/3/13 16:16||Profile|
| Re: prayer request - God's truth|
I don't feel particularly hard-pressed. It may be you've read into my posts 'emotions' I don't feel.
I didn't 'hear' Joshua asking SI members to take sides. I heard him asking us to pray.
Perhaps the midwife mentality is deeply engrained in me... by which I mean, I know whose baby it is and I don't try to take over... I am quick to hand it back to the mother and talk her through how to do the work. (I would confess that I have not always been as clear about boundaries as I think I am today.)
You have obviously (from what you say, obliquely) had many disappointing experiences of people claiming to have heard from God, when manifestly they had not.
This seems to have made you overly sceptical in an indiscriminate way.... While I understand your scepticism, I don't think it's fair to assume it is warranted.
Nor do I think that (scepticism) is what is meant by the scriptural injunction for prophets to judge the words of another prophet.
I've been aware of defending only one thing, and that's Joshua's right to [u]claim[/u] to have heard from God.
Subsequent to that claim, I defend his right to learn from God as he lives through the outworking of the effects of how he dealt with that word at the time.
| 2006/3/13 17:53|
Annie, I've been following everyone's opinions on this matter and using it and testing it. But, in all honesty, I NEVER asked for anyone's opinions.
So my prayer request is, that God CONFIRMS His word, with NUMEROUS witnesses, not just 2 or 3, but a PROFOUND amount, so that it's INDESPUTABLE that this word is from God.
I didn't REQUEST that from you, but instead from God.
I know that sounds bluntly, but NUMEROUS times on SI, people have taken what I've said and turned/twisted it. Causing bad fruit. And to a major exstent I believe it's in the presentation of [b]my[/b] words.
Then again, to ASSURE my words, I again post 'Dont give me a scorpion instead of a fish' or in more literal words 'dont debate, pray for me'.
I've saught the counsel of NUMEROUS people on this matter, different backgrounds and etc. If I wanted your opinions, I would've posted it in the Lounge. And said 'What do you think on this matter'. But instead, I titled this 'PRAYER REQUEST'. Sorry that you guys mis-interupted what I THOUGHT I clearly stated.
I know how serious this was/is. So serious, I ran so fast with it I tripped on a rock.
"Tripped" meaning in the delievery of the word.
This church has 30 years of friendship with my pastor. Also, has the 'negivtive' look of Brownsville and Toronto. Demonic manifestations that most of us have read about. THEY CONDONE THAT!
Do I love this church? Not really. Do I love the people in it? YES! I love EACH and EVERYONE of them. But I believe God is going to destory the 4 walls and desperse them into other churches, unless they repent. Will they? No! Because they think they are fine. I PRAY that they repent though!!
I have pride in the lack of my replies? No, It's just I don't eat rotten fruit.(Bitterness, anger, resentment, 'know-it-all' theology/knowledge..etc) That's why on SI, if you haven't seen, I really don't partake of those threads that last more than 5 pages. Why, cause most become very un-fruitful and posion MY walk with God. Others can take is longer, but I can. That's my convictions. But I'm trying to show my point on not replying to unfruitful things.
A few times on SI, I have said "COME ON STOP FIGHTING" but I just see that my voice is a cry in the wilderness and I just pray that God will rise up someone else on SI to calm so of the fighting down.
The orginal intent of this thread, is just EXACTUALLY what the title says. PRAYER REQUEST.
Did you pray for me? Or did you post your '2 cents' before you went to God on the matter? (Re-tor-ical question)
I will be meeting with the pastor by the end of this week. And I will repent of the DELIEVERY of the word but clearly state that I CAN"T repent of the word itself and PRAY that it doesn't come to pass, but then again, don't want to pray against God's will.
See how double-minded I am? That's why I need your prayers. That and numerous other reasons.
I just ask that you all 'swallow your pride' and just pray for me. Don't post, just pray. And if you get SOMETHING FROM GOD, I'll test it and if it truly is from God, you'd be the vessel that God uses to answer my ORGINAL prayer request. (Confirmed by numerous witnesses). I tired of opinions, Jesus is all that matters, so please, just pray.
| 2006/3/13 23:12|
I have been praying for you and this entire situation. While I must admit that I do not agree with the "word" that you claim that you were given, nor do agree with the method that you went about in giving this "word" -- I will continue to pray that God performs a wonderful work even in this ugly situation.
My prayers have been directed as such:
I pray that the Church in question will take every step possible in order to line up with the Word of God -- and that the Lord will have a strong relationship within the lives of each person in that Church. This is the heart of God -- to draw men unto Himself for fellowship. There have been few times in history that God felt that an entire body was so lost that He felt inclined to destroy it. It happened to Sodom. Yet God "repented" when it came to Nineveh (Jonah 3:10; 4:1-11).
Even more specifically, I am praying for you, Joshua. It is evident that you are a young man with a wonderful love for the Lord. I am praying that your faith will not fail. I am praying that nothing will interfere with your relationship with God -- and that you will continue to grow into the stature of Christ.
Joshua, most of us that have been involved in the SermonIndex fellowship of believers have received our share of rebukes. But the interesting thing is that, right or wrong, the individuals offering such words actually care enough to share. If an individual doesn't care, they can easily remain silent. May you take comfort in the fact that many of us care about you enough to take the time to both pray [u]and[/u] share.
As you have said, you didn't ask for anyone's opinion. But as many people here have suggested, you would do well to at least consider the words of others. Proverbs 11:14 states that there can be safety (or victory) with a multitude of advisors (or counselors). We are not trying to bring unbiblical doubt into your heart. If your words are truly from God as you suggest, then [u]nothing[/u] can prevent them from happening -- including any "seeds of doubt." But the people here may be worried about what could happen if [i]nothing happens[/i] after three years. What if, after three years, your "word" never comes to pass? Will you doubt your relationship with Christ? Will others doubt all of your future "words?"
I am deeply troubled because of this. This is no small matter. You have, speaking for God, proclaimed destruction upon a church. In a day when "words of the Lord" are easily and frequently given without thought to consequence, believers need to test such things (I Thessalonians 5:21). Like I said, my prayer is that God will create a wonderful work out of this ugly situation.
| 2006/3/14 0:20||Profile|
...most of us that have been involved in the SermonIndex fellowship of believers have received our share of rebukes
I resemble that remark! :lol:
| 2006/3/14 0:36||Profile|