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So if tongues is a prayer language (which it is interesting to note that "prayer language" is not mentioned in scripture)... why dont ALL Christian receive this? Billy Graham never has. Matthew Henry never did. John Wesley... Charles Finney...


 2006/3/7 13:42

Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164


Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Mar 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

Mar 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with [them], and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Why can't every Christian tell of an instance of laying their hands on the sick and them recovering? Why can't they tell of a story of casting out a devil?

EDIT: Do you believe laying on of hands and casting out devils are available for any (all?)believer(s) to do?

Josh Parsley

 2006/3/7 14:03Profile



dorcas wrote:
Something has occurred to me about what I wrote above:

I think this proves that the tongue-speaker also can understand something of what [b]God is speaking to them through the exercise of the gift[/b] of tongues,

This is like the precious understanding brought to our attention by the Psalmist in ch 116:12
[b]What shall I render unto the LORD[/b] for all his benefits toward me?
13 [b]I will take the cup of salvation[/b], and call upon the name of the LORD.

We think we're ministering to God through the Spirit (and we are) but the whole point of it that [b][i]He[/i][/b] should have another opportunity to [i]bless [b]us[/b][/i], [u]if[/u] we will be open to receive from Him. This is the the love affair in action.


This is the the love affair in action.

And now we can move on to PastorPhin's {name ?} thread ... "That I may KNOW HIM".

I love this. What a beautiful day to do just this with friends.

Lord Bless us and prepare us for the battle.

We have a "Treasure" that the thief would love to beat us, in order to steal it.
Be watchful always and found wearing the full armor.

Including His Joy. :-D

Perfect Love casts out ALL fear.

Pro 29:25 The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the LORD shall be safe.

Lord Bless and Protect SI and all who enter through .... and this narrow way.

 2006/3/7 15:07

Joined: 2005/12/14
Posts: 440


I'm going to share a very truthful but beyond anything I've ever known...casting out something?

This was has been very private for years because very few could except it or believe it...

When I was pastoring a church in Indiana several years ago...a new christian...a well saved christian from my church called me at 10 p.m. and said pastor I'm up here at the hair salon in town talking with Debbie...This brother went on to say Debbie cant go home she said theres all kinds of evilness in her home...(Debbie was well known in town as "easy". She was heavily into porn, drinking etc...) The brother said to me 'you got to get up here theres something really wrong with her. I said if you stay there I'll be there... Debbie had been drinking but she said that she drinks so much that she never gets drunk anymore its like water. Debbie was scared when I got there, and she told me she allowed a homosexual to rent her double attached to her home recently. She said she was seeing things in her home... I told the brother we need to lay hands on her and pray... We layed hands on her and prayed and I can still remember it wasnt a normal prayer.. something came over me and we prayed fervantly like know other...I had know idea what I was doing but the new chritian brother thought I did... this was all done in the hair salon she we prayed Debbie screamed aloud STOP! STOP! YOUR HURTING ME!! All we were doing is praying... We prayed harder and all of the sudden she vomited all over the place?
I thought woooow...they didnt teach me this in school? :-o
She got done vomiting and felt we should pray again, and again she screamed STOP!! She started to vomit again and again... I'll never forget this!! But in the end she wounldnt repent after all that... Wait a minute now think about the new christian with me..I thought his eyes were going to pop out they were opened so wide! Imagine this happening at one of our comfortable Sunday A.M. services?? "We wrestle not against flesh and blood.."
This helped increase my faith...

I cant explain what happened exactly ony I was there. I never have seen anything like that until this day...


 2006/3/7 15:58Profile

 Re: Private prayer language? Repent?

But in the end she wounldnt repent after all that...

Brother, I know I'm only a sister, and you may believe I'm unqualified to comment, but I think you have your wires crossed here. Many people are demon possessed because of what has been done [b][i]to[/i][/b] them; [u]not[/u] because what they have done.

She was telling you that someone was [u]hurting her[/u].... That was your clue. As long as she remained unhealed from whatever ordeals she had been through, there was a wounded place in which the demon(s) could reside. In this condition, of course people turn to drink or drugs, and previous abuse is the commonest reason for any girl to go into prostitution and related activities. Casting out a demon has got to be coupled with healing, whether it is pronounced over the person or not.... you, the pray-er, has to understand this is a legitimate aspect of deliverance/salvation/healing. Repentance will come, when there is an understanding of sin, but many people who have been hurt, have no way of knowing what sin is their own personal responsibility, because they were overpowered by the circumstances in which they were originally hurt.

It is easy to look at the adult and assume they've been making a deliberate choice to SIN, but even if they have, it may have been very comforting to them, when a worse pain was being blotted out. However, as healing proceeds, new guilt for real misdemeanours is God's gift, which enables a person to offer genuine repentace to God.

One last thought is, that people who've been overpowered in abusive situations, especially if they were children at the time, are used to things happening [u]to[/u] them. To ask them to take turn that around completely, (in the same night as being delivered from one or more demons) and to take responsibility for an important action like repentance, with the kind of mental clarity which is required, is too much.

Probably what she needed was to be wrapped up and taken somewhere safe, to be looked after for at least the night, and given time to ask questions about what had happened. And reassured of God's love, and treated with the respect she deserved for having come [i]that[/i] far with God in one evening.

Sometimes a human being can only stand 'so much' in one session, and faith on your part is required to trust that it will not [i]all[/i] disappear because (you know) the job is only partly done. The Spirit needs time to minister to the understanding of the person, too. If they have been controlled by other people in the past, the last thing they need now, is the suspicion that they are getting into another situation where they have, [i][b]again[/b][/i], no power over their own destiny.

This alone, is one reason, that many people with a history of abuse, find it hard to come to God. The idea of abandoning themselves to Him is [b][size=medium][font=Verdana]TERRIFYING[/font][/size][/b].

Now, I realise I've implied you were insensitive to Debbie's needs. I guess you were as sensitive and gentle as you knew how to be. What I've said is a slant on my own personal, very long, deliverance journey with the Lord. I have repented many times meaninglessly. And until I began to receive healing, it continued to be impossible for me to make it stick. I have no idea how many demons left me on the way as I pursued righteousness, but, I'd say it was in 10s rather than 1s. I have prayed for myself to be delivered many times, but I can remember only once, having a demon cast out. I don't remember that being a bad experience and it certainly changed me, but I was far from clear about what had happened or what I needed, at the time.

 2006/3/7 16:44

Joined: 2005/12/14
Posts: 440


Hi dorcas,

We did talk with her after it was over sitting with her but I felt I shared so much I just wrote she wouldnt repent..
Now she wouldnt repent but we wanted to talk to her longer and help her anyway possible but she finally said to us 'please leave' then it was over, because we had to leave.


 2006/3/7 17:02Profile


Why can't every Christian tell of an instance of laying their hands on the sick and them recovering? Why can't they tell of a story of casting out a devil?

Preach, I think you misunderstood my question. I know from scripture that not everyone will recieve the gift of tongues. Thats plain. When people talk about how tongues edifies a believer in their prayer life as a prayer language, then the question must be asked: if this is the case, why then does God chose only to bestow upon certain believers a gift that edifies themselves.

Here's what I think Paul was saying when he spoke of someone speaking in tongues as edifying himself... I dont think he was saying that God uses that in order to strengthen a believer... I think he was saying a believer builds himself up as in builds himself up in his own eyes, and in the eyes of those around him.

It's interesting to note that scripture over and over declares that the Lord is my strength, in Him do I find strength... I can do all things thru God who strengthens me... etc.

Yet Paul says in 1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue [b]edifieth himself[/b]; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

Just a thought to ponder... I know I'll not please everyone with that thought of mine, but hey... ponder it for a minute, thats all I ask.


 2006/3/7 17:08

Joined: 2005/12/14
Posts: 440


I was at an old fashioned campmeeting few years back and one of the brothers tried to greet me with a 'holy kiss'...well, I tried to avoid it by turning my head but it didnt work and his lips hit mine :-o
I was shocked because know one ever even tried that before with me nor have I seen it happen... BUT I was very thankful because this denomination didnt believe in the doctine of 'tounges'. ;-)


 2006/3/7 17:27Profile

Joined: 2005/12/16
Posts: 54



I read this and the shortly after read your post, and the Lord led me to bless you, and everyone who reads this, Amen.

The Source of Abundant Joy

In all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us
—Romans 8:37

Paul was speaking here of the things that might seem likely to separate a saint from the love of God. But the remarkable thing is that nothing can come between the love of God and a saint. The things Paul mentioned in this passage can and do disrupt the close fellowship of our soul with God and separate our natural life from Him. But none of them is able to come between the love of God and the soul of a saint on the spiritual level. The underlying foundation of the Christian faith is the undeserved, limitless miracle of the love of God that was exhibited on the Cross of Calvary; a love that is not earned and can never be. Paul said this is the reason that "in all these things we are more than conquerors." We are super-victors with a joy that comes from experiencing the very things which look as if they are going to overwhelm us.
Huge waves that would frighten an ordinary swimmer produce a tremendous thrill for the surfer who has ridden them. Let’s apply that to our own circumstances. The things we try to avoid and fight against— tribulation, suffering, and persecution— are the very things that produce abundant joy in us. "We are more than conquerors through Him" "in all these things"; not in spite of them, but in the midst of them. A saint doesn’t know the joy of the Lord in spite of tribulation, but because of it. Paul said, "I am exceedingly joyful in all our tribulation" ( 2 Corinthians 7:4 ).
The undiminished radiance, which is the result of abundant joy, is not built on anything passing, but on the love of God that nothing can change. And the experiences of life, whether they are everyday events or terrifying ones, are powerless to "separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord" ( Romans 8:39 ).


 2006/3/7 17:43Profile


Good Morning Steve.

It is true there is no such phrase in the bible as tongues being a Private Prayer Lanuage. However, the usage is just that it's private between you and God.

The Charismatic movement has not helped in this area at all. They have reeked havoc on the teachings of the Church. Instead of building on a biblical foundation, they have taken foundational teachings and have stretched them to the extreme, and have created "new" teachings based upon "experince". For example, they have taken "Joy" and have created a "laughing" ministry out of it. The term "Private Prayer Language" no doubt has come from such Charismatic leaders like Kenneth E Hagin or Copeland.

I do not have the gift of tongues, but I do speak in tongues in my prayer and worship, and I am edified. When I am gathered together with those who are like minded, we speak in tongues together, it has nothing to do with interpretation. Now if someone who has no idea what were all about comes thru the door, we tend to stop and go back to english praise and worship. Sometimes someone will just jump up and speak in tongues and usually there is interpreter. At times there is a wait because the person whom God is moving on is struggling with themselves. Generally there might be a few people that know the message but they don't feel the prompting to give it.

As for this Baptist fellow, what he doesn't understand he should leave alone and continue on preaching the gospel.

Than again, the Gospel IS Jesus Christ coming as the Holy Spirit in the believers life, and when they receive Him, they will speak in tongues, as the scriptures have mentioned so many times in the book of Acts.

1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

I don't understand those who say that tongues have ceased. If that is true, than Prophecy has ceased as well, and if prophecy has ceased why are we looking for end time prophecies to come to pass if it's all ceased and done away with? hmmmmmmmmmm

Has knowledge ceased? If it has, than what is the sense in learning?

Come on people, don't just take out what you want because you don't understand it. People that don't believe in this or that will write books that is wide as the Chrysler Building trying to prove that these things are not for us today. But Jesus said to that same unbelieving bunch He dealt with than, saying in:

Luke 11:19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? [size=medium][color=006600]therefore they shall be your judges.[/color][/size]


 2006/3/7 17:46

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