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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Who is glorified by "tongues?"

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RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Hi Krispy,

I won't have time today to listen to the sermons, but I did print off one of their links on 'tongues'. It was an article by Elliot Miller of CRI. I don't know if he is still there since they moved to North Carolina, but they take a 'middle of the road' approach. Some of the contents of which I did not agree with, but I respect Elliot Miller a lot.

One thought that comes to mind so often on this subject is how the Rabbi's that went to Jamnia in the 1st century took an almost identical line in getting God out of the picture as many have in the Church. I did an article once on this called [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=1958]Talmudic Revisionism and the Struggle for Authority[/url] and also, and I think more to the point, [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=1959]It Is NOT In Heaven[/url], which describes how The Rabbi's took the book (Torah) and shut God out.

What I mean is, how the whole concept of "when that which is perfect shall come..." (taken to mean when the canon is complete) then that which is in part shall be done away with. This is the same craft as the Rabbi's use as they relegate themselves to the sole authority of all things pertaining to their religion. They would tell you something like, God gave us the Book, so... "what more can He say than to you He has said..." and then assume the [i]authority[/i] to interpret the Law and prophets as they saw it with no input from God whatsoever.

What we have in Christianity is dangerously colse to this in that we have systematized a means by which we can study the scriptures using logical deductions drawn from proof texts- and before you know it- It is NOT in Heaven for us either. We have the Book- so why do we need the Holy Spirit any more? We can give lipservice to Him leading us into all truth, etc., and go on using our systematic methods of logical deductions as if it were [i]revelation[/i]. A cursory read of how the New Testament uses Old Testament passages is enough to demonstrate how the Holy Spirit interprets things a lot differently than we would have in many cases.

This is why it is difficult to get many Jews to ever acknowledge Isaiah 53 and other common passages we use. They will point to a larger context and say its impossible for that to be applied in this case. They lean to their own understanding and are shielded from genuine [i]revelation[/i]. Again, we may just assume that by faith the Holy Spirit is leading us in areas- but is HE really? Or are we just telling ourselves He is- when we are really coming to our own conclusions based on our own logical reasoning?




_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2006/3/1 13:43Profile









 Re: WHO is glorified by tongues ?

The sole purpose of the Holy Spirit is to bring GLORY TO GOD and to teach us all things in regards to HIM and bring us into His Image and to be our comfortor and in Romans 8, "pray for/through us" and elsewhere to Praise through us. "In Spirit and in Truth".
That is Who is glorified by the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the gifts. All to His Glory.


But anyhow ... Robert, a few years back, before I got sicker, I hit this problem you're speaking about and the [u]root[/u] of the problem is caused by the incorporation of "Midrashic" interpretation of the Scriptures ... the method picked up while Israel was in Babylon.

I still have the work I did on Midrash, and may I just warn you what happened here because I posted it all on the web.

I was attacked so serverely and my computer was attacked so severely and I was threatened, so that I pulled the plug on the internet for 2 years at the Lord's request just so I could get some rest. No Joke.

Fortunately, at the time, I had heavy duty security on ... but if you go near Midrash, I can tell you exactly who will be after you and they are "Christian" and some Messianic ministries.

I must be bored to bring this topic up. :-?


Let's see if they catch this post .... ;-) .


I have my critiques on floppies .... :-P


(Yeah, I must be bored or something ... Or just getting [u]sicker[/u]. ha)

 2006/3/1 14:14
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Hi Annie,

Quote:
But anyhow ... Robert, a few years back, before I got sicker, I hit this problem you're speaking about and the root of the problem is caused by the incorporation of "Midrashic" interpretation of the Scriptures ... the method picked up while Israel was in Babylon.



Wow, sounds like you may have hit a nerve. I would know only bits and pieces about the issue, except that Daniel Gruber was brave enough to spell it all out in his book "Rabbi Akiba's Messiah". I studied Jewish Roots at the Jewish Roots institute, but nothing came near to the synthesis of materials that Gruber put out. I have only discussed the topic in these type settings, so the exposure is limited.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2006/3/1 14:25Profile









 Re:



Hi Robert,
Actually, I wasn't trying to take things off topic with that, but see it in most of the topics of late.

Midrash has done to the Messianic movement what catholicism has done to Christianity.
"Private interpretation" and incorporating "Oral law".

You see it in any false doctrine and misrepresentation of truths, as may be why it came up within your post.

The biggest problem of it in these days, is that it's being pushed by so-called Christian Apologists. Well, I'm not sure how 'plural' that should be, but nonetheless, midrash is being qualified by one who is exposing Benny Hinn etc., and made a name in the Discernment Ministry circles based solely on some "exposes" of well known heretics like those within the hyperfaith circle.

But it needed and needs to be addressed because it is leading the folks I know of down a slippery slope doctrinally and opening them up to any type interpretation and over-spiritualising of the Scriptures. You almost can't go to "literal-grammatical" interpretation with them anymore because of this.

I pray it keeps it's distance from here, but it should be addressed eventually, only because I've seen a smidget of it trying to get on.

Well, shalom-shalom and I give this discourse of the title topic back to you.

Lord Bless you.

 2006/3/1 14:51
020406saved
Member



Joined: 2006/2/18
Posts: 7


 Re:

I feel the need to explain myself. At this very moment in my life I know where I am going to be if I were to die today or if He were to rapture the redeemed. I know that I know. I know that I am a sinner. I also know Jesus Christ came to Earth in the form of a man so that He could live a perfect life and then be sacrificed in my stead. I have repented of my sins against God and turned my back on those sins so that I might glorify His name; for he truly is worthy of all of our praise. I am really fired up for God and trying to spread the Gospel. It is amazing to me to see the number of opportunities He has made for me and my brother in Christ over these last 3 weeks. I am finally free from habitual sin in my life, and honestly striving to become more like him.

With that being said, why do I feel so uncomfortable when I hear tongues spoken? Why do they startle me and why don't I understand them?

Thanks again for each and every comment.

 2006/3/1 16:46Profile









 Re:

Praise God for your testimony, bro!! Welcome to the Family.

As a new believer in Christ, I think you may be concetrating on the wrong things here. I can certainly understand all the questions you have concerning tongues, but it is a rather small issue in the scheme of things. I'm NOT scolding you at all, and please dont feel that way. I am merely suggesting that you pray about this, and ask God to reveal His truth to you in [b]His time[/b], and then concentrate on more important issues. Issues like learning His Word and witnessing and serving Him in whatever capacity He has gifted you in.

I was studying Matthew 4 this morning when Satan took Christ into the desert to tempt Him for a time. This happened "immediately", scripture says. Satan loves to jump on us "immediately" after we've been saved, or have had a great mountain top experience, or a spiritual break-thru. Sometimes it's temptation with sin. Some of the time it's a diversion. In the Marines we learned a lot of diversionary tactics to make the enemy concentrate on the wrong things, and not see us coming from another direction in order to neuturalize them.

As a football coach I do this all the time by calling misdirection plays and reverses.

I believe this is what is happening here. You've gotten saved and on fire for Jesus... but I think the Devil is using some clever diversionary tactics to get you confused about God and His Word. Dont let him do this!!

To answer your question more directly, not everyone recieves the gift of tongues. Not everyone recieves the gift of interpretting tongues. So dont be surprised if you can not speak in tongues, and can not understand them.

What did Paul say? We can speak in tongues all day long till the cows come home, but if we have not love... we are just noisy. It means nothing.

Concentrate on LOVE. Learn to love your neighbor. Go and find out what that means, and how God wants you to live that out.

Krispy

 2006/3/1 17:04
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re: Just a simple request

May I make a simple request, this should help you in this matter on "tongues" in the church and in a persons private life. Here's an exercise to do---Read the book of Acts through a couple of times asking The Lord to show you what He will about the subject at hand. Read it through but don't study it, just read it much like you'd read a short story or a secular book. See if that doesn't help ya some.

Also note what I posted in the original post about taking somethings by faith, thats a tough thing to do, but its scriptural and sound if its sound doctrinally. Blessings Bro. Daryl


_________________
D.Miller

 2006/3/1 22:25Profile
020406saved
Member



Joined: 2006/2/18
Posts: 7


 Re:

You are probably right. I believe that my gift is the ability to talk to people about Christ. He has given me the opportunity and the words, so for now I should remain focussed on His will in my life.

I am really excited about this website, it has given me an avenue for discussion and the sermon downloads are an absolute blessing.

The brokeness of both Leonard Ravenhill and Paris Reidhead is convicting, and the direction of Ray Comfort in soul winning is priceless.

 2006/3/2 0:14Profile









 Re:

Quote:
You are probably right. I believe that my gift is the ability to talk to people about Christ. He has given me the opportunity and the words, so for now I should remain focussed on His will in my life.

I am really excited about this website, it has given me an avenue for discussion and the sermon downloads are an absolute blessing.

The convictions of both Leonard Ravenhill and Paris Reidhead, and the direction of Ray Comfort in soul winning are priceless.



Amen, brother! I am so excited about your new found faith! I'm really looking forward to watching you grow in the Lord.

It's ok to be curious about these kinds of issues, and there is a lot of information out there. But it is also easy to lose sight of the important things.

Paul said:

1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, [b]but rather that ye prophesied[/b]: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Now, when we hear the word prophesy we think of someone who God is speaking thru, revealing the wonders of the universe, or something like that. But most of the time prophecy is simply speaking God's Word (the Bible) into people's lives. Paul makes it clear that that is more important than tongues. In other words, preaching His Word. Spreading the gospel.

This is what you said: [i]I believe that my gift is the ability to talk to people about Christ. He has given me the opportunity and the words[/i]

Praise God!! He's given you an even greater gift than tongues!

Isnt that cool?!

By the way, if you're already listening to Ravenhill, then you're well on your way to maturity. As for music, I like all kinds, but I would recommend you get your hands on the music of Keith Green. Powerful stuff.

Krispy

 2006/3/2 6:28
020406saved
Member



Joined: 2006/2/18
Posts: 7


 Re: Rambling!

Quote:
The convictions of both Leonard Ravenhill and Paris Reidhead, and the direction of Ray Comfort in soul winning are priceless.



I didn't like the way that sounded after I reread it so I changed it the best I could to describe what I felt.

He is worthy of our best; at all times and in evertything we do because it glorifies His name.

 2006/3/2 11:48Profile





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