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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Eve's transgression means... what exactly?

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 Eve's transgression means... what exactly?


KJV 1 Tim 2
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 [b]And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression[/b].


NASB 1 Tim 2
13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
14 [b]And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression[/b].


1 Tim 2 [u]TODAY'S NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION[/u]
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
14 [b]And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
[/b].


I was reading today in the TNIV, and wondered what, in the context of women [i]not[/i] teaching, is Paul trying to say about [i][b]men[/b][/i] teaching..... is it that they are less susceptible to fall for false doctrine?

If Adam had already sinned by not intervening, why is Eve singled out here?


 2006/2/25 21:20
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2850
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Eve's transgression means... what exactly?

The passage does indeed seem to suggest that women are more susceptible to spiritual deception than men are. Of course there have been plenty of men who have been deceived also but that is what it suggests, I'm not sure how you could read it any other way?

Saying women are "singled out" here seems to suggest some unfair treatment. I think Paul is just using reason based on what happened in the garden. I think women are just more spiritually sensistive, whether it be for good or evil.

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2006/2/25 22:07Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I think women are just more spiritually sensistive, whether it be for good or evil.

Hmmm. Men are spiritually sensitive too, but perhaps they don't like to be [i]seen[/i] being [i]responsive[/i].....?

 2006/2/25 23:43
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Genesis 3:3-6 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Eve knew what God had said, but she most likely did not understand. She had not seen anyone die and probably did not know what to expect. She new what was good for food, she knew it was pretty, and because of evil input she believed it would make her wise or just like God, the serpent was the only other Person she had to go on in her choice to eat. Satan was the only other being except God and Adam that had conversed with her. She was in innocence and did not even know that evil existed, except that was the name of the tree.

I think what Paul is trying to say in Timothy, if Eve would have come to Adam or God and ask if what the serpent was saying is true, she would not have been in transgression. If Adam did not know the answer who was the only one that he could go to? It would be God and He surely would have given them the answer. Eve was deceived and she did eat. Don't get me wrong Adam could have done no better and he could have changed the whole outcome if he would have told Eve when she offered him the fruit, that we must go to God and ask Him what we should. He did not, he ate also.

I think Paul is only giving God credit for what He set up in the Garden. Who did He tell not to eat of the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil? It was Adam not Eve. Genesis 2:16-17 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Then God made Woman from Man. Eve knew about the tree and dying, it must have been Adam who told her or God Himself. She was already Adams wife at the time of the decision to eat they both made. If we look at who God has dealt with in His Plan for His House, it was not the first Eve and the Last Eve, it was the first Adam and the Last Adam. 1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.

1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

If God has made it so then He will deal with Man first then Woman when it comes to creation. Adam is separated from soul and became death dealing spirit by the acquisition of the spirit of Satan as his spirit and everything went to pot. Eve was dragged along because of her transgression, they became of their father whom they chose to believe the devil who was the spirit of man. Jhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. What was the First death Adam and Eve experienced, one of their own son's.

I believe Paul is trying to put man and woman back in the perfection that God intended for them both. Adam the head as husband, The wife Eve the only one that could bring forth Life from Adam. Those lives dedicated to God for His House that He might have children in His house. Now that Christ has brought the saved Adam and Eve back into His house, man and woman whom we are as son's and daughters, He speaks loudly, Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
Col 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord. This was God's Plan always. Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. 1Th 3:12 And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all [men], even as we [do] toward you: Jhn 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

May man and woman come to this precious truth and may husband and wife be as God intends them to be for the Glory of God.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2006/2/26 2:11Profile









 Re:

Seems most men are raised up to be more black and white, and not allowed to 'feel' when being raised. Not all, but I'd have to say most are.
They feel the need to run more on 'logic' and reasoning and problem solving, etc.

We're "built" since the fall to submit and men to rule ... so that sense of responsibility makes them feel that demand all the more, to take charge and not let emotions rule.
They feel "out of control" if they "let go".

Watchman Nee for one encourages the proper use of emotions for both genders equally ... just for one Classic Author.

They haven't the place to let emotions or "feelings" rule nor move as we can get away with ... even on the job or school or any public place. No one's surprised when a woman cries or is tender and "feeling", but they are if a man breaks down in tears or is 'responsively sensitive'.

Shame huh ? Jesus wept. So the Holy Spirit does move with emotion and is tender. And all the "Greats" wept openly.

Anyhow, about the initial post ... the fall put woman under men as far as any Authority goes or final say.

Doesn't mean if a man teaches heresy that we should swallow it and not give our understanding of what we see is Written.

I like Elisabeth Elliot's attitude best and feel she was/is the most Scriptural on a woman's "place".
When invited by a Pastor to share in their Fellowship, she would not speak in a morning Service, but felt that was "the time for the Word to be taught", but would speak under the Pastor's authority at nite.

Boiling it down simply ... I don't believe in woman Pastors or Sunday School or Bible Study heads over a mixed crowd.

That angers some ladies, but God set that as the way since the fall. Woman are under the man and the man is under Christ.

That doesn't mean a woman can't be used in the Gifts of the Spirit and there were mentioned prophetess' etc. in the Word, but in no place is a woman over men in teaching or authority.

Sharing together as "brethren" is quite different.
I don't care to have woman moderators though, because that is a seat of authority.

Ho-hum, old fashioned or just Biblical ?

Anyhow, as tired as I am right now, I guess I better close this here, lest I "talk too much" again.


Love to you Sis.
me again

 2006/2/26 2:35









 Re:

Hi Philip, your post wasn't there when I started my pokey post.

My only other thought on this was that women being under men's authority and protection, is symbolic of Christ and His Bride. Eph. 5 "She" doesn't boss Him around.
The 'symbolism' when worked out is a beautiful thing.


God Bless.
Annie

 2006/2/26 2:45









 Re: Eve's transgression means... what exactly?


I'm on the road for the next 24 hours, and look forward to reading this thread properly when I next 'stop'. Thanks for answering, Ron, Phillip and Annie. I look forward to considering your posts properly.

 2006/2/26 12:03
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re: Eve's transgression means... what exactly?

Quote:
f Adam had already sinned by not intervening, why is Eve singled out here?



Eve is singled out here not to degrade her but to show that she fell into transgression through deception. Adam was not decieved. Adam made a choice.

Adam's weakness was not Satan's deception, it was his wife. And thus it has been ever since.

For instance, what has been the downfall of most believers, in the Old testament and New? Who was it that said to Job, "Why don't you curse God and die?" What caused David to fall? It was a woman. And it is a repeated thing. Men idolize women. Men allow themseleves to be manipulated by women. Men are carried away by women. Let a beautiful woman walk in among a bunch of scientist and engineers and immediatly you will see them all begin to act like fools.

In Romans 5 it does not say, By one woman, sin entered into the world and death by sin" It says, "by one man sin entered into the world and death by sin. Here Paul singles out the man, not the woman.

Not only that but the promise of redemption was given to the Woman in Genesis 3. That is "the Seed of the woman would bruise Satan's head.

No particular gender is being picked on. Rather the truth and reality of things are presented clearly.

While not a rule, woman are more governed by their feelings and men are more governed by their intellect. It does not mean men are smarter. It just means they are governed by what they think and woman by what they feel. A woman may be more intellegent than a man, yet she does not live by the logic of her keen mind, rather she will act according to her feeling. And God designed them this way. A mother needs strong feeling. A Father needs a clear head. They compliment one another.

And the Bible does not elevate intellect above emotion (men often do). Both are aspects of the soul. The Scriptures elevate the spirit above the intellect, the will, and the emotions.

A person dominated by his intellect is just as soulish as a person dominated by his feelings. God is not after soulish people, He is after spiritual people who are goverened neither by their mind, their will, or their emotions, but rather are governed by the Life of God in their spirit.

Graftedbranch





 2006/2/26 13:03Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Annie wrote:

""Hi Philip, your post wasn't there when I started my pokey post.

My only other thought on this was that women being under men's authority and protection, is symbolic of Christ and His Bride. Eph. 5 "She" doesn't boss Him around.
The 'symbolism' when worked out is a beautiful thing.""

We had a sermon this morning about the precious corner stone. That Stone is the first laid when building a new building or a new Temple which He said He would rebuild in three days. Of course the old temple curtain to the Holies of Holies was torn from top to bottom. He did rebuild the new temple and He is the first born among many that inhabit it, for we are the temple and He being our God Born Again in it, that is us, is the Bold Access to the Father.

When I walked In my R.V. The Holy Spirit said, I did not mention the Bride of Christ in my last Post. When I read your post I see that God had already taken care of it.

You are so right, she doesn't boss him aroung and he doesn't boss her around but in loving care for her leads her, not by a leash but hand in hand and always giving himself for her. Her submission will be just like Mary at the Feet of Jesus, willing and wanting to follow her Savior because she is His Bride, which Mary already was, The Bride of Christ as we all the Born Again are, and it will be consummated at the wedding feast of the Lamb. Praise God He is my Husband too.

In the brides submission to Christ, He has already, and is doing and will be doing the perfect best for His Bride. Oh, that we might See each other this way, Christ in me and Christ in you. 1Th 3:12 And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all [men], even as we [do] toward you: Jhn 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.


I am divorced right now, but I have only one mind when it comes to my X wife. That she might know that Christ is my all and if God permits remarriage for us, that she would be able to see what He has done in me.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2006/2/26 17:58Profile









 Re:

God Bless you Philip.

I will pray for her also. Lord God protect your heart.

Quote:
Philip wrote regarding The Church ......
she doesn't boss him around and he doesn't boss her around but in loving care for her, leads her, not by a leash but hand in hand and always giving himself for her. Her submission will be just like Mary at the Feet of Jesus, willing and wanting to follow her Savior because she is His Bride, which Mary already was, The Bride of Christ as we all the Born Again are, and it will be consummated at the wedding feast of the Lamb. Praise God He is my Husband too.

In the brides submission to Christ, He has already, and is doing and will be doing the perfect best for His Bride. Oh, that we might See each other this way, Christ in me and Christ in you. 1Th 3:12 And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all [men], even as we [do] toward you: Jhn 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.


 2006/2/26 18:09





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