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ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi TS, I'd like to address some things that you brought up in your post. You're right about this topic being filled with all sorts of questions.

Quote:
If you read Deryk Prince's book "War in Heaven" you will gain his understanding of a so called "gap" theory. Where between Gen. 1:1 and Gen. 1:2 there was a period that contained a creations of Gods that pre-dated men


(I had an incomplete qoute from your post that might have been confusing re-did it)

I don't think I can respond right now to everything but I wanted to share with you some of the reasons I am convinced the Scriptures teach a literal 6day creation with no gap. I'll try to come back and check the topic in case you'd like to share more.

So here's a few things:

There is a particular phrase that is repeated in the opening of Genesis 'and the evening and the morning' were the first, or second day, and so on.
As I understand it, this phrase is a special Hebrew gramatical construction which (always?) conveys the idea of a 24 hour day. I think it is found elsewhere, for instance in connection with the sacrifices of the Mosaic Law, though I'm not sure. So I think this strongly suggests that God is conveying to us 6 24 hour days(note also that the Jews to this day mark days from sundown to sundown). And in connection with this you have the very clear refrence to this in regards to the sabbath law(see Exodus 20:11). It would certainly be strange for Moses to make this refrence if the days in Genesis 1 were anything other than 24hours.

Here's something else that I think speakes directly to the issue the gap or 6 consecutive days. It is the words of Christ in Mark 10:6

Quote:
But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.



This(and the following verses) it seems is a direct refrence Genesis 1 and actually connects a verse from Genesis 2 tying them both together(which indicates that they are not seperate accounts as some have proposed). So here it sems that Christ our Creator is connecting the creation of man and woman with the beginning of Creation. I think it would be somewhat misleading to do this if there was a long, undifined period of time between the beginning, and the creation of man and woman.

Also, it is my understanding that there were words available to Moses to convey the idea of long ages if that is what God had intended to convey. I realise that this may bring up lots of other questions like some that you mentioned, for instance the naming of the animals, but I hope you'll agree that if the Bible teaches 6 consecutive literal days of creation, then we'll just have to rest assured that there are answers to those other questions. Though you and I may not find them all out in our time here on earth.

I hope this will be helpfull.

Christopher


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2006/2/12 22:31Profile
Greenquality
Member



Joined: 2006/1/26
Posts: 189
mountains of Pa.

 Re:

OK I have an idea of the gap theory,and also the so called 1st earth age.with in the six days to the gap theory.It has been said (one day with the lord) is like onto a 1000yr, i think it's in 2 peter.but I would like to point out sticking to the six day (creation) about dino's that everbody keep skiping my (???) is the fact that the serpent or reptile in the garden of eden,is pictured in words to have been up right in stance or tall,(((could this be the event to explain what happend to the gaint reptiles,in the garden of eden)))), cursed down to the ground????? it sounds to simple to over look!!!!!! instead of coming up with crazy Idea's about taking this gaint reptile on the boat with noah or getting into the gap theory,to complex to explain,

 2006/2/13 6:40Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

ChrisJD's[i]

Quote:
As I understand it, this phrase is a special Hebrew gramatical construction which (always?) conveys the idea of a 24 hour day. I think it is found elsewhere, for instance in connection with the sacrifices of the Mosaic Law, though I'm not sure. So I think this strongly suggests that God is conveying to us 6 24 hour days(note also that the Jews to this day mark days from sundown to sundown)

[/i]
I think the references you have in mind are: Gen 1:5,8,13,19,23,31; Ex 27:21; Lev 24:3 and in particular the latter two...Ex. 27:21 In the tabernacle of the congregation without the vail, which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall order it [u]from evening to morning[/u] before the Lord: it shall be a statute for ever unto their generations on the behalf of the children of Israel.

Lev. 24:3 Without the vail of the testimony, in the tabernacle of the congregation, shall Aaron order it [u]from the evening unto the morning[/u] before the Lord continually: it shall be a statute for ever in your generations. The context of these latter two verses makes it very clear that here the phrase simply means 'overnight'. (a 12 hour-ish period, depending on the time of the year) The Exodus/Leviticus phrase [i][u]"from[/u] A [u]to[/u] B"[/i] is very different to the Genesis phrase of [i]"A [u]and[/u] B."[/i] I don't think we can use the Exodus/Leviticus readings to interpret the Genesis quotations.



[i]
Quote:
And in connection with this you have the very clear refrence to this in regards to the sabbath law(see Exodus 20:11). It would certainly be strange for Moses to make this refrence if the days in Genesis 1 were anything other than 24hours.

[/i]Why? In the very first uses of the word 'day' in scripture we have two quite different meanings to the word Gen. 1:5 And God called the light [u]Day[/u], and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first [u]day[/u]. In fact in algebraic termsthe first 'day' = 'a day' + 'a night'. So in the very first instance we see that 'day' can be used to describe different quantities of time.

This double meaning of the word day continues into the narrative“And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule [u]the day[/u], and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And to rule over [u]the day[/u] and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the fourth [u]day[/u].” (Gen 1:16,18-19 KJVS)In the second chapter we have “These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in [u]the day[/u] that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, [u]And[/u] every plant of the field before it was in the earth, [u]and[/u] every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, [u]and[/u] there was not a man to till the ground. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.” (Gen 2:4-8 KJVS) This 'day' has several 'parts' to it identified by the word 'and'. But the events captured in 'the day' here in Gen 2 are actually recorded as have taken 'days 1-4', so it is clear that by the time we arrive at Genesis 2 we have the word 'day' used in three quite different senses. In the space of a page and a half we have a day = a 12 hour-ish period of light
a day = a 24 period, ruled over by the sun and the moon
a day = a 4 'day' period in which the foundations of the earth were established.

...and lastly when did the 'events' of... “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.” (Gen 1:1-2 KJVS) ...take place?
Is this a title to the whole section or part of the events of 'Day One'?


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2006/2/13 7:16Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2850
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Here's a link to a page on the Answers in Genesis web site that deals with several different creation compromises. If you scroll down the page you will find a section titled "gap theory" with several articles on the topic.

[url=http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/compromise.asp]Creation Compromises / Gap Theory[/url]

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2006/2/13 8:30Profile









 Re:

Something to think about... Dinosaurs had to have died AFTER the fall of mankind because up to that point there was no death. Death entered in after the fall.

My personal opinion is the dinosaurs perished in the flood. The deposits of there bones seem to be pretty substantial evidence in support of this. And it is reasonable to think that the flood caused a climate change world-wide which would have made it impossible for them to survive. God created them, and God can decide when they should be done away with.

Chuck Smith has some really good teaching on Genesis and the dinosaurs... and it's available on this site.

Krispy

 2006/2/13 9:29
Greenquality
Member



Joined: 2006/1/26
Posts: 189
mountains of Pa.

 Re:

The event ,to explain! what happend to the serpent in the garden of eden.we all know that the serpent is satan,which took form of a reptile which i think is the giantReptiles or (dino's) that was cursed above every beast of the field, and cursed upon thy belly. ((or brought down to size ))give it some thought

 2006/2/13 9:38Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro TS

Quote:
MY QUESTION IS: How could Adam have named all (read thousands) of animals on the sixth day...THEN- God put him to sleep took a rib and made EVE. All on the sixth day?



what could have kept adam from naming every animal in one day? nothing as far as i'm concerned. if the Lord made all the animals and birds in one day and He asked Adam to name them ALL, then the Lord made it so that Adam could name them and name them he did. our bodies are hindered today in many ways because we are in a fallen state, Adam wasn't therefore he named every animal, whether each taxa had 1 or 1000 species. end of story. then God went about the task (after Adam was done with the naming) and of making eve. that's what the word says and that's good enough for me.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/2/13 10:30Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779


 Re:

Hello...

I have this silly little theory that questions whether or not dinosaurs was the "serpent" as mentioned in the book of Genesis. Remember, the serpent -- before he was cursed by God -- was a "beast of the field." When God cursed him, the serpent was forced to crawl upon his belly. What would a serpent be that did not crawl upon its belly? A dragon? What is a dragon? It reminds me of a dinosaur quite a bit. And what is Satan known as in the book of Revelation?

Quote:
"And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years..." - Revelation 20:2

Is it possible that dinosaurs are simply the pre-cursed Serpent (or Dragon) from Genesis? I haven't really heard anyone ever teach about this -- but it could explain how the dinosaur [u]suddenly[/u] disappeared (instead of blaming it on a giant asteroid hitting the Yucatan in Mexico). The flood could have served to fossilize the bones of the remaining dinosaurs.

Remember, fossilization is not a sign of death -- it is the sign of disaster. If a person (or any other living thing) were to walk outside and fall over dead, their bones would [u]not[/u] fossilize. Fossilization is the result of either extreme conditions (great amounts of pressure) or chance (falling into tar, etc...).

Anyway, it is something to think about.

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2006/2/13 11:59Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

There is some very interesting stuff on the [url=http://www.reasons.org/about/8_myths_about_rtb.shtml]Reasons to Believe[/url] website, for folks who are prepared to keep thinking about this topic. If you have already made your mind up that people who are unconvinced about 6x24 hour days are heretics, then this site is not worth visiting. If you are not afraid to think outside of the boxes, it may challenge you.

I don't endorse it, but I think the folk who run it are 'family'.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2006/2/13 12:24Profile
saved_matt
Member



Joined: 2005/7/3
Posts: 233
Lancashire, England

 Re:

Hey Greenquality,

Sorry we've all wandered off your original question, I apologise for being one of the early decenters but i would like to address your question about whether the Serpant which was in the Garden was actually a dinosaur.

You bring to the fore an interesting idea that the Seprent in the garden wasn't a 'snake with legs' but actually a much larger creature.

I noticed when reading over the passage in Gen 3 that the serpent is classed in the beasts of the field section of God's creation and now in with the creeping things, which I'd classify a snake with legs as.

The problem with the idea is that there was more than one 'kind' of dinosaur ranging from the massive sauropods to much smaller, chicken size dinosaurs. So why would God curse the Sauropods if the serpent was say a theropod (like T.Rex) or a ceratopsian (like Triceratops) do you see?

Nevertheless again the forums on SI throw up an new viewpoint on how to look at the Word of God,

Thanks Greenquality

God bless

matt


_________________
matt

 2006/2/13 14:01Profile





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