Santa Clara, CA
| "End of the Spear" Steve Saint Speaks|
Received the following from Randy Alcorns ministry the other day and thought it better to separate it from the thread [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=9056&forum=48&post_id=&refresh=Go]End of the Spear[/url] and draw attention to it in isolation.
"[i]Randy asked me to send this request to you for prayer regarding the End of the Spear movie and the Chad Allen controversy. Many of you are no doubt aware of the controversy that surrounds the End of the Spear movie and the actor who plays Nate Saint, Chad Allen, who is a homosexual activist. Randy has found himself on the inside of this controversy talking with the principle parties involved on both sides of the issue. He was reluctant to get involved but because of the substantial amount of misinformation that is being passed around he felt he needed to address it. After long interactions with the primary parties related to this controversy (including hours of phone conversations and dozens of emails) he has put together a comprehensive response.
Hes asking that you would pray for Mart Green and Steve Saint and their families who have suffered incredible pain from the misinformation that has been dispersed over the internet. Prayer is also needed for Jason Janz who has been involved in the center of the controversy. Please also pray for Chad Allen and his exposure to the gospel through acting in this movie and for the many nonbelievers who will be attending the movie because of Chad Allens role.
To get a clear picture of what is involved, you can read the following two articles that are now posted at our website:"
Randy Alcorns response to the End of the Spear and Chad Allen Controversy[/i]: http://www.epm.org/articles/end_spear_response.html
[i]Mart Green (head of Every Tribe Entertainment, producer of End of the Spear) & Steve Saint answer questions[/i]: www.epm.org/articles/end_spear_chad_allen.html
Think it was a noble thing of Randy to get down into the muck and mire here, despite everything. I do hope this might serve as a future warning about jumping to conclusions and taking positions.
| 2006/2/1 9:40||Profile|
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS
| Re: "End of the Spear" Steve Saint Speaks|
The Lord is certainly not ignorant of Chad Allen and his lifestyle and yet it was so that he played this part in the movie. if the Lord had wanted it any other way, it would have been so. it seems to me that this is a lesson for us to keep from running our mouths sometimes and to let God check us. i've not seen very many discussions get as emotionally charged as ones to do with homosexuality. it seems to me adultery and fornication are by far more rampant sins in the church which have done far more damage to families, congregations and indeed our witness and yet i've yet to see us on these boards get riled up about any of these things. i'm in no way condoning this sin because God doesn't condone it. yet there is much else the Lord doesn't condone which we don't pay much attention to.
i guess we all have aired how we feel, now let's seek the Lord earnestly on what to do.
Lord forgive us of our pride and compel us to repent. :cry:
| 2006/2/1 10:42||Profile|
if the Lord had wanted it any other way, it would have been so.
Hey Ironman... I cant go along with your reasoning on this point. (The rest of what you wrote is subjective opinion, and I dont necessarily disagree or agree)... but anyway... God promised Abraham a son with his wife. Abraham took it upon himself to help the Lord out, and did things his way. The result?? Terrorism, high gas prices, threats of war, Islam, etc. If Abraham had trusted the Lord to fulfill his promise then Isaac would have been the (only) son God wanted Abraham to have, and world history would have turned out completely different. But instead, Abraham chose to help fulfill God's promise by way of adultry, and having an illegimate son. And we are all living with the results of that decision today.
Of course a movie is not earth shattering like Abrahams goof was... but the point is the same. MAN messes up, not God. And God does not always intervene to make sure we dont mess things up. Sometimes he allows us to mess things up, and then makes us live with the consequences.
Love ya, bro...
| 2006/2/1 11:34|
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11
but anyway... God promised Abraham a son with his wife. Abraham took it upon himself to help the Lord out, and did things his way. The result?? Terrorism, high gas prices, threats of war, Islam, etc. If Abraham had trusted the Lord to fulfill his promise then Isaac would have been the son God wanted Abraham and his wife to have, and world history would have turned out completely different.
Do you realize that you are posting this from such a close minded comericalism american point of view!!! what in the world does Abraham have to do at all with the material success of america?? is america the "chosen people" now? Think outside the box (the american box) that is. The world [b]does not[/b] revolve around america. I am saying this not disliking america but wanting to show the truth of the matter.
I think Ironman has a valid point, but does not say that homosexuality is not a sin, it is a grevious sin actually and a depravity of Human nature that wants to rebel against God. I personally think that Christians can do without the "end of the spear" why do we NEED it? when has the church been so desperate to guard and maintain our slice of the world? we are called to forsake it. I am tired of blockbuster Christian movies.. We need the power of the Holy Spirit .. we need apostolic success.
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
| 2006/2/1 11:46||Profile|
| Re: "End of the Spear" Steve Saint Speaks|
How can you possibly hold Abraham solely responsible for that list of pains? Adam, [i]surely[/i], had more to do with it?
What's more, the love of God is such He sent the second Adam, to bring the first Adam back into fellowship with Him.
I've lived with the consequences of my actions, [u]and it isn't easy[/u], but, it was [i]there[/i] that God proved Himself to me [i][b]more[/b][/i] than any other - His compassion for me, and His Fatherhood towards me. I would never have known how deep He can reach, if He had not let me fall so low.
| 2006/2/1 11:50|
My favorite part of the one article is where it quotes Paul in Philippians that says whether the gospel is preached in pretense or sincerity, he will rejoice that the gospel is preached.
I saw this movie Friday night with my fiance, and boy, must I say I was delighted to do so. The movie had such a powerful demonstration of the self-giving sacrificial love of Christ and forgiveness. It had my fiance and I crying pretty good. Especially powerful was the martydom scene. The movie has encouraged me to go deeper in my walk with Christ, grown my heart for world missions, and makes me want to read the book, The Gates of Splendor, as well as see the actual documentry behind the movie.
| 2006/2/1 12:05||Profile|
when has the church been so desperate to guard and maintain our slice of the world? we are called to forsake it. I am tired of blockbuster Christian movies.. We need the power of the Holy Spirit .. we need apostolic success.
Who said by defending this movie we are guarding our slice of the world? Why do you equate making a Christian movie with worldliness? Movies in themselves are not wordly. Seeing a movie based on the Gates of Splendor is no different than reading the Gates of Splendor. They are simply two different forms of media. Or what about the rather famous documentry that we have of the Welsh Revival? Should we do away with that as well? It was quite powerful from what I recall.
The apostolic power of the Holy Spirit is behind this movie in that He inspired the missionaries on which this movie was based. I know I found myself being questioned by the Holy Spirit as I watched the martydom scene, and asking myself, could I give my life in such a selfless way, to see the souls of an unwanted and despised group of people saved, knowing that within my short contact of them, I might be killed, and never have significant chance to share the gospel with them?
| 2006/2/1 12:16||Profile|
Wait wait wait... what happened to asking people to clarify their statements before jumping all over them??
I can not even fathom how you got America involved in this. You conveniently misunderstood my point entirely. My point was that the ripples of Abraham's disobedience is felt today. God had a plan, and Abraham circumvented that plan... and we are still feeling the effects of it today. Especially in ISRAEL.
I only mentioned gas prices because the Arabs control the world's economy. I mentioned Terrorism with ISRAEL in mind because 95% of the terrorism in the world happens in ISRAEL!! Thats the result of the disobedience of ABRAHAM.
I swear, its amazing how people misinterpret what others are saying on here. I know I am guilty of it as well... but gee-whiz people!
Before you scold me, ask me if perhaps you're misunderstanding me, or if perhaps I wasnt clear enough.
I think IRONMAN's comment that "if God wanted it another way it would have happened" comment is not necessarily correct. It's actually a neo-Calvinistic statement. It denies man's "freewill".
It's amazing how one post can be understood 20 different ways from upside down.
Does clarify it for everyone? Am I "outside the box" now? (I always was)
| 2006/2/1 13:40|
If Abraham had trusted the Lord to fulfill his promise then Isaac would have been the (only) son God wanted Abraham to have, and world history would have turned out completely different
Krispy, did God not miraculously spare Ishmael's life in the desert when he was dying of thirst?
| 2006/2/1 14:09||Profile|
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS
| Neo-calvanism etc|
i think this issue should be discussed elsewhere so that the theme of this thread isn't lost. we can talk privately if you wish but i'll start another thread on this perhaps.
love you too bro
| 2006/2/1 14:13||Profile|