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Joined: 2005/4/8
Posts: 220
New England USA


How clever we all are! What persuasive arguments we can make!! It's kind of inronic that we are discussing a sinless life, yet NO ONE here is trying to prove their point...aka pride = sin!!

NO ONE here feels just a teeny tiny bit of frustration... aka anger = murder = sin!!

You must ask yourself this question; Are you here brinig up all of these persuasive arguments to bring honor and glory to the name of Christ, or just trying to prove your point??

This thread has come down to splitting hairs! I see no glory in that. To quote my 4 year old.. it's all just "yucky"!!!

Is it possible that we have made mistakes?? Is is possible that no one has all the answers?? Possible that we've all missed the mark??

How much time have we spend asking the Lord what He thinks?? Have we realy sought Him and asked Him to show us our hearts in all of this, or are we more interested in being right??

I admit that I do not know everything, but my desire is to know Christ in His fullness and bring honor and glory to His name. I will never assume that I know it all. As a matter of fact I always assume that the other guy may be right. Then I bring it to the Lord in prayer and reading the word.

Stay at the CROSS saint!! Let's not make the cross of Christ void!!


 2006/2/2 14:18Profile


I love reading Watchman Nee! :-) His book "Secrets to Spiritual Power", is a great book! It has a compilation of 63 of his books.

The Communion of the Holy Spirit

If you can bear the digging up and burrowing down that the Lord does in your life, you will be used greatly by the Lord.But if you fret and have controversy with God, you at once loose your victorious life, and any outpouring of the Holy Spirit will be of no help.Let the cross cut and pierce you deeply, for each cutting of the cross severs something from you that you love and long for.These cuttings are the work of the Cross for an increase of the measure of His grace in you.

 2006/2/2 15:00

Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164



MeAgain wrote:
It appears we've all "missed the mark" and need to repent ...

"It's turned into this".

:-P Preach.

And some of us silly kids thought that this thread was interesting and going along nicely.

"It's turned into this."

Now can ya beat that ? :-?


:-P This thread is going along alright. I was just thinking how can we say we are with or without something if we all have a different idea of that 'something.' Just as in talking about 'Christian Perfection,' the Bible clearly talks about perfection but you have to define what the Bible means by 'perfect' to even be able to discuss it. One says we are perfect, the other not, one says we are sinless, the other not. It's because we both have a different thought on the subject... wouldn't you agree?

Josh Parsley

 2006/2/2 15:33Profile

 Re: Must we sin?

Is it possible that we have made mistakes?? Is is possible that no one has all the answers?? Possible that we've all missed the mark??

Dear Tina,

Do you think there are people here who think they never have sinned, or, who think they never sin now?

Do you think that's why I posted what the Lord has shown me about how to live free from condemnation? I was not trying to be controversial, or, to suggest that what others have contributed is irrelevant.... but, we can spend a lot of time looking at the minutiae of our lives and all we are doing is making it less likely we will live in the victory Christ won for us. That's all I was getting at.

This is not to say we should not identify what is wrong in our lives and, with a WILL, put it right with God and keep it right with God. But, I can only do that for me - not for anyone else - and vice versa. ;-)

The 'What is sin?' thread is shaping up beautifully, too. 8-)

 2006/2/2 15:46

Joined: 2005/1/29
Posts: 154
Kansas City, Missouri

 Re: Must We Sin?

Whether or not this fits with the thread you decide, but I thought maybe there would be a few who would enjoy this short exert from H. A. Ironside’s work (Holiness: The False and the True, 1912). This book concerns Rev. Ironside’s struggle with perfectionist doctrine as a young Salvation Army officer.

“The teaching of holiness in the flesh (perfectionism) tends to harden the conscience and to cause the one who professes it to lower the standard to his own poor experience. Any who move much among those in this profession will soon begin to realize how greatly prevalent are the conditions I have described. Holiness professors are frequently cutting, censorious, uncharitable and harsh in their judgment of others. Exaggerations , amounting to downright dishonesty, are unconsciously encouraged by and often indulged in their “testimony” meetings.

Holiness advocates have all the little unpleasant ways that are so trying in many of us; they are no more free from penuriousness, tattling, evil speaking, selfishness, and kindred weakness, than their neighbors.

And as to downright wickedness and uncleanness, I regret to have to record that sins of a positively immoral character are, I fear, far more frequently met with in holiness churches… than the outsider would think possible. I know whereof I speak; and only a desire to save others from the bitter disappointments I had to meet leads me to write as I do.” --H.A. Ironside

I am reminded of Paul’s words near the end of his Ministry “not that I had already obtained, either were already perfect” and “I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it YET.”(NASB).

God Bless,

Tony Sexton

 2006/2/2 16:01Profile

 Re: You are dead!!!

Do you not know that Christ has died? Do you not know that you died with Him? Do you not know that your death is no less truly a fact than His?' If not, seek the Lord until you KNOW the finality of the word: "I have been crucified with Christ".

to read the message DO DEAD PEOPLE SIN?
Go to

 2006/2/3 6:50


Thanks freecd for that websight! It's so exciting when you get the revelation that dead people cannot sin! There are actually two things that Jesus has saved us from.One is from our sins and the other one is from sinning.

You really just have to be willing to give it all to Him.Alot of Christians really are not willing to give up ALL of their sins.They want to keep some like pride for instance.Thats a hard one to give up.Apologizing when your wrong is especially hard.You have to give up alot of your so called rights.Like when people speak against you even though you know their wrong but keeping your mouth shut anyway.That's hard but it produces the character of Christ in you.Most Christians would just like to take their salvation to the bank though and forget about the rest.It's a great loss!!!

Brother Yun (The Heavenly Man) from China is being spoken against and called a phony.Their are some people trying to say that what he experienced in China never happened.But he says that he does not have any unforgiveness but only love for the people who are doing this to him and he never trys to prove anything to anyone, he just loves them.

 2006/2/3 10:36

 Re: Must we sin? - re DO DEAD PEOPLE SIN?

Do you not know that Christ has died? Do you not know that you died with Him? Do you not know that your death is no less truly a fact than His?' If not, seek the Lord until you KNOW the finality of the word: "I have been crucified with Christ".

Hi freecd,

I agree with your tack which goes perfectly with Heb 10:14, BUT, [i]I think[/i] people are looking for practical advice about how to 'do' their practical lives........ rather than only the substance of their faith. No doubt I'll be corrected by some kind person if I'm wrong on that point..... But just in case I'm not, I'd say the apostle John has the most useful terminology. It occurred to me today that there is a little more to be said about the light. (Of course, there is no light in a grave.) Therefore, this advice is for those who are born again, or seeking to be born again, and willing with all their might to live a life as pleasing to God as possible. Not forgetting 1 John 1:7

(NKJV) John 3
19b'...[b]light has come into the world[/b], and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 "For everyone practising evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 "But [b]he who [u]does the truth[/u] comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God[/b]."

In so 'doing' - that is, coming to the light - the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:7).

(NASB) 1 John 1
5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and [i][b]yet[/b][/i] [u]walk in the darkness[/u], [b]we [u]lie[/u] and [u]do not practise[/u] [i]the truth[/i][/b];

 2006/2/3 12:10


There are two levels of maturity.There is denying yourself which is resisting temptation through self denial and there is the second level of maturity which is being dead.

A christian can go through their walk with the Lord resisting the temptations in their life or they can live the life the apostles had which is a crucified life.

The apostle Paul said I am crucified with Christ nevertheless I live (Gal.)

When you are dead their is no temptation.When you step down off the cross than you are tempted.The enemies attack will become more severe but if you are dead it works to your advantage because it is squeezing the life of Christ out of you like a winepress,that is if you don't step down off the cross.If you want wine the grapes have to be crushed.As soon as you step off the cross the work stops and temptation moves in.Coming off the cross is opening yourself up to temptation.

Once you begin living the crucified life you will never go back to your old life because you will realize that greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world.Their is a difference in hearing that truth and experiencing the reality of that truth and you must experience it yourself.

You will get to where you look forward to more persecution and than suddenly the devil will realize that you know something that he's known all along and that is that persecution and temptation work for our benifit if we don't step off the cross.Than he will take away the persecution from you when he realizes his plan is failing and his efforts now are only working to make you stronger and he will try something different.The reality that the devil does not want you to know is that God is allowing satan to tempt you in the areas where you are weak so He can deliver you from them.If you die to them there is deliverance and satans plan to destroy you is now being used to produce life in you.This is a truth that you will find out as you overcome each temptation that satan does not want you to know.

It becomes a race.If you don't give in to the temptation than once you've died to it than you will learn a great lesson from it as the Lord gives you the revelation.Once you recieve the revelation of your problem you will not return to that again because you know better.Than the Lord will present another area of your life to you again and again until you reach to full maturity and finished your course that is if you decide to keep the race.

 2006/2/4 0:18

Joined: 2006/1/18
Posts: 14


Forgive me brothers and sisters if someone has already pointed this out, I am not always blessed with the time to read everything in a well established post. I am burdened by seeing that there are those who suppose they live a sinless life. I would suggest that the human mind is incapable of understanding the paradox of a "sinless life". Christ lived outside of our limited human understanding so he was able to do so. We, on the other hand, cannot achieve a sinless life. The paradox is this, we sin out temptation of the flesh, as Christains we strive for santifacation by doing the best we can to resist the temptation to sin. We all achieve this at different levels, but resistance to all temptation is not a sinless existance. Sin is thought, word and deed that glorifies the flesh over the spirit. Not matter how much we resist, when we are tempted, we are [thinking] about the sin we are resisting, thereby sinning in thought. Not matter what deeds we resist, we cannot stop the involuntary thought of sin that comes from our flesh selves. Only Christ was able to defeat this earthly paradox and save us from our evil lives. His perfection brought his imperfect sheep to him. We remain imperfect but are protected from the evil that devours lost sheep who will not live with the shepard. The good news in Jesus is that we do not have to be sinless because we are forgiven. With this great gift comes great responsiblity to our fellow man to lead them to Jesus and to seek to live in the spirit and deny the the flesh. May God bless and keep you, I pray that we continue to reflect and debate, seeking God's glory and find understanding in the spirit. Thanks Chris

 2006/2/4 2:31Profile

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