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Discussion Forum : General Topics : What is a pastor, and what do they do?

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philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Something I wonder about as well is the fact that the Acts church met more than once a week thus allowing the Spirit to do different things within the body. So perhaps on Monday there is a prophecy given, Tuesday a tongue & interpretation, I think you get the gist. But we show up on Sunday, and sometimes Wednesday, and expect God to do all of that in one hour. Not that He cannot, but why would HE?


I wonder whether this is how things were? Many were slaves and meetings were probably conducted late at night, hence Paul at Troas and his sleepy listener. I have oftne wondered whether the phrase 'if... the whole church be come together into one place' (1 Cor 14:23) is an indication that at other times 'parts of the church' might be 'come together'?

I think our every-other-night-a-meeting is very much an urban model of ordinary church life. I recall preaching once in India where part of the congregation had travelled more that 5 hours to get to the 11 am Sunday morning meeting; and they did this regularly every Sunday.


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Ron Bailey

 2006/2/18 13:01Profile
roaringlamb
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Philologos,
I think that makes more sense. I have often wondered what that passage in 1 Corinthians was talking about. When the whole church is together, as if they could not always be togehter, and thus it was a wonderful time when all could come together to use their gifts. It is also interesting to me that Paul does not seem to lay out this structure to any of the other churches he writes to. Why is that?
Also I think that 1 Corinthians 13 comes before 1 Corinthians 14 to show that love is the key. Hence at the end of chapter 12 Paul say "but I show you a more excellent way"


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patrick heaviside

 2006/2/18 13:08Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

It is also interesting to me that Paul does not seem to lay out this structure to any of the other churches he writes to. Why is that?



It is crucial to understand about Paul's epistles is that he's not writing academic sytematic theologies. He's writing letters as the occasion demanded it.

Thus, we don't see Paul give a discourse on tongues and interpretation in his other letters, because the disorder in the Corinthian church doesn't seem to have existed in the other churches. Some use this lack of mentioning of tongues in other epistles to somehow discredit the importance of speaking in tongues, but if they were to be fair, he doesn't talk about communion either.

Paul does to some degree however, mention church life in another epistles, but never to the detail he does in 1 Cor. A key concept you see runing throughout is the idea of "one another." Next time you read through his epistles, see how many times and places you pickup this phrase or concept.


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Jimmy H

 2006/2/18 22:37Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: protect the sheep

Earlier in this thread it was pointed out the one of the roles of the spiritual leader - the shepherd was to protect the sheep from enemies. I haven't seen too many comments on that.

Back in Bible days people didn't have near the outside influences they have today - TV, cellular phones, internet, in addition to schools, peers, etc. Actually we are under constant bonbardment from enemy influence which can lure us away from truth and defile our minds. Even "Christian" TV is dangerous.

Clearly today pastors are not the most influencial people in the lives of their parishoners.
How can they fulfill their role in protecting the sheep when they are competing with so many very influencial "shepherds"?
Diane


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Diane

 2006/2/24 22:25Profile
roaringlamb
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

How indeed?
It seems that many people have been wounded by other people(shepherds or other) and thus it becomes very difficult to trust anyone with any kind of authority or leadership in their life. I know that at times I even struggle with this to a degree. But what if there is a truly Christ like leader before us, who can say "follow me as I follow Christ." I believe that this would change so many peoples' hearts, and break down many of those walls. The hard part is that when someone is wounded, it is not always as easy as saying "get over it" to them. I think that a shepherd is kind, and compassionate to the sheep that are injured so that they eventually trust him enough to eat from his hand, knowing that he has only their best intentions in mind. Then again though this requires vulnerability, which is hard to come by.


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patrick heaviside

 2006/2/25 1:39Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: feed the sheep

Quote:
t seems that many people have been wounded by other people(shepherds or other) and thus it becomes very difficult to trust anyone with any kind of authority or leadership in their life. I know that at times I even struggle with this to a degree. But what if there is a truly Christ like leader before us, who can say "follow me as I follow Christ." I believe that this would change so many peoples' hearts, and break down many of those walls. The hard part is that when someone is wounded, it is not always as easy as saying "get over it" to them. I think that a shepherd is kind, and compassionate to the sheep that are injured so that they eventually trust him enough to eat from his hand, knowing that he has only their best intentions in mind. Then again though this requires vulnerability, which is hard to come by.


Well said! It's an issue of trust and relationship. No wonder Jesus used the foot-washing example. He got down on the level of the needy person and ministered on that level. It is easy to miss the "dirty feet" if our noses are too high in the air.
Quote:
Clearly today pastors are not the most influencial people in the lives of their parishoners.


I think I can answer my own question re the pastors role in PROTECTING the sheep. The best offense is a good defence: Knowlege, discernment, and insight make a good defence.

Eph. 4: 11-16 answers my concerns.

11 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

14Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. 15Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. 16From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.

The sheep are protected from wolves by being taught and modelled "truth in love" (vs. 14)- not just warning the flock of all the evils out there - all the bad denominations, the bad movies, the bad drugs, alcohol etc - but of arming them with truth.

Slothfulness among leaders is a terrible plague in the church. One cannot merely blame the sheep for desiring the things in this world. If the church doesn't have the goods, then where do the sheep go for food. Scraps are better than nothing.
Diane


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Diane

 2006/2/25 9:00Profile





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