Wonderful thoughts, shall we procede?
_________________Robert Wurtz II
I had to wait in the car to collect someone earlier today and was looking at 'elders' on my PocketPC. I discovered some interesting data. I would encourage others to do this kind of thing, not to prove a point but simply to check and check. I was searching through the scriptures of the phrase "elders of". I wanted to see how many kinds of elders there are in the scriptures. I was really quite amazed. In addition to the Egyptian elders we have:[b]elders of Israel:[/b] Ex. 3:16,18; 12:21; 17:5-6; 18:12; 19:7; 24:1,9; Lev. 9:1; Num. 11:16,24,30; 16:25; Deut. 27:1; 31:9; Josh. 7:6; 8:10; 24:1; 1Sam. 4:3; 8:4; 2Sam. 3:17; 5:3; 17:4,15; 1Kings 8:1,3; 1Chr. 11:3; 15:25; 21:16; 2Chr. 5:2,4; Ezek. 14:1; 20:1,3; Matt. 21:23; 26:3,47; 27:1; Luke 22:66; Acts 4:8but I was surprised to find [b]elders of the priests:[/b] 2Kings 19:2; Is. 37:2although not so surprised to find[b]elders of cities:[/b] Deut. 19:12; 21:3-4,6,19-20; 22:15,17-18; 25:8; Josh. 20:4; Judg. 8:16; Ruth 4:2; 1Kings 8:1; 2Chr. 5:2; Ezra 10:14Can you see why I find this curious? How many 'levels' of elders were operating in Israel? For example if I am a priest living in Anathoth do I have 3 levels of elders?eg national elderspriestly elders city elders.David had 'elders of his house': 2Sam. 12:17The clans seem to have had 'elders' too: 2Sam. 19:11, Ezek 8:1This has set me wondering whether or not the scriptures are using 'elders' as a generic term for 'recognised leaders' rather than as the label for an office called 'elders'. Can you see the implications this would have? We usually think of 'elders' as the "leaders", where the man who holds the label has the responsibility to 'lead'. But how does it play the other way about? ie is it really that a man who is a leader is publicly recognised as an 'elder'. Are leaders appointed or do they emerge? Is the recognition of an emerging 'leader' what causes him to be denominated as an 'elder'?What do you think?
_________________Ron Bailey
Are leaders appointed or do they emerge? Is the recognition of an emerging 'leader' what causes him to be denominated as an 'elder'?
_________________Jimmy H
hi all, i attend a church that had no membership or elder/deacon structure for many years. it started with the pastor and his family in their home. we got to about600 attendees and the pastor said "if you're wonderung who the elders in this church are ask yourself who you would call if you were sick; they are your elders" we have 20,000 now and more structure. jimp
? Is the recognition of an emerging 'leader' what causes him to be denominated as an 'elder'?
_________________Diane
KingJimmy's
One at my previous church has now moved on to a much larger church where he now attends, so this process might take a little longer to flesh itself out.
A funny thing happened when the book, "A Shepherd Looks at Psalm 23" first came out.We read it first, as about the Lord Himself, of course ... but then felt led to read it again from the perspective of a Pastor/shepherd.To see how much trouble a good earthly shepherd would/should go to, to insure his flock is safe, growing and healthy was incredible from gleaning from that one book alone.Neat !
roadsign's
This would seem to make sense. The question that goes through my mind is: WHO is able to recognize the elders as such?
Well, I am ready for more if everyone else is. I have really been chewing and praying, and praying and chewing, this is good !!!!
_________________patrick heaviside
In another post you mentioned the miss-translation in the KJV of related words - "ruler" to justify eclesiastical control and hierarchy.