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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Bonhoeffer

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 Re: Bonhoeffer

Quote:
To my knowledge, those that believe in just war believe that only those in authority have the right to weild the sword.

Hi KJ,

I haven't followed any of the threads on 'war' in detail but regarding the last sentence of your last post, are you saying there is a scriptural case for 'leaders' to wield the sword and that makes it ok? (Please, I don't need a long answer - just a pointer, if you would, thanks.)

 2006/1/18 5:38
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

roadsign's

Quote:
The discernment site practically made Finnney out to be an antichrist. He builds a straw man about emotionalism and falsity in revival. Presumptuous and self-righteous, I'd say.


I have given previous cautions on the site but the data is usually accurate even if the judgments are severe. It is an axiom for historians to 'chech your sources'. If you really need to know 'check your sources'. It would be folly to embrace the site's judgment without research just as it would be folly to embrace mine without research. ;-)


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2006/1/18 5:15Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

That is because they probably believe in their leaders - even if they are evil. (a little brainwashing maybe)



This is simply not accurate. Far be it, many who hold to the just war belief believes Scripture forbids us to rise up in rebellion to those who are set up above us in the Lord. It does not call for us to agree with everything they say, or do everything they call for us to do (where it disagrees with the teaching of Scripture). To my knowledge, those that believe in just war believe that only those in authority have the right to weild the sword.


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Jimmy H

 2006/1/17 21:37Profile









 Re:

roadsign-

"Surely you don't expect those who blindly follow their leaders to have more virtue than someone who defects from an evil system-because they can see through it all."

A person can either choose to serve God or satan take your pick.Choose whom this day you will serve.As for me and my house we will serve the Lord.

Its not about who's stink smells the best.






 2006/1/17 20:56
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:

Quote:
To my knowledge, those typically in favor of just war do not promote the assasination of their own leaders.


That is because they probably believe in their leaders - even if they are evil. (a little brainwashing maybe)

At least you can't say that about Bonhoeffer. He was on the side of moral justice in this issue and refused to be brainwashed. Surely you don't expect those who blindly follow their leaders to have more virtue than someone who opposes an evil system - even if it is their own.

PS, The discernment site practically made Finnney out to be an antichrist. He builds a straw man about emotionalism and falsity in revival. Presumptuous and self-righteous, I'd say.

I would sure appreciate some info about Bonhoeffer from another source.
Diane


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Diane

 2006/1/17 20:34Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: King Jimmy

Quote:

Bro, If I'm not mistaken aren't you in your early twenties or something?.....if thats correct, your last post about Bonhoeffer being an "atheist" and "not been saved" really highlighted the fact your still a young man with a whole lot of growing up to do.

no offense.



I'm a 23 year old seminarian and have some knowledge about Church history and theological perspectives. As said earlier, I'm far from an expert in this area (I prefer to study about John Wesley and the likes), but I am not without knowledge. I think I know enough to say that so far as I understand the Neo-Orthodox perspective, that it is entirely heretical in which the theologian knowingly confesses as truth what he knows to be a lie. He doesn't in reality believe anything he says about God to be true, but instead only make-believes about God. The Neo-Orthodox theologian would feel just as good about professing Hinduism, Budhism, or any other religion as his faith, but for whatever reasons he has decided, he has simply decided to use orthodox christian belief as his tool for perspective.

We should not let our love for the insights some of these individuals like Barth or Bonhoeffer have offered in their writings distort our discernment of them as "men of God." Such men practically speaking are atheists. They don't "really" believe the things they profess, but really do nothing but "make-believe." Such men are not saved. They don't believe Jesus is really Lord. They don't believe He really died for them. They don't believe that Jesus came back to life. They don't believe that He ascended to the Father. They don't believe He's coming back soon.

With this said, how could somebody that doesn't even really believe these absolute essentials even be saved? I believe any Christian who professes that such a person is geniunely saved who doesn't really believe these most essential convictions of the Christian faith is actually the one in need of a lot of growing up, perhaps they might even need to get saved themselves.


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Jimmy H

 2006/1/17 20:22Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

What is the difference between this and the present typical Christian view of war? King Jimmy, Are all professing Christians who believe in going to war against the enemy also atheists at heart?)



To my knowledge, those typically in favor of just war do not promote the assasination of their own leaders.


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Jimmy H

 2006/1/17 19:38Profile









 Re: King Jimmy


I'm in my 30's almost 40 so what does that have to do with anything???
The man's an athiest according to the article.Didn't he promote a book about God being dead? If so are we that desperate of christians that we have to embrace every man that comes down the pike?
I could care less who's in my camp.Im not willing to compromiise because someones an intellectual or greatly esteemed by man.Im concerned with what they believe.
If that article is true than he's an antichrist.


 2006/1/17 18:53









 King Jimmy

Bro, If I'm not mistaken aren't you in your early twenties or something?.....if thats correct, your last post about Bonhoeffer being an "atheist" and "not been saved" really highlighted the fact your still a young man with a whole lot of growing up to do.

no offense.

 2006/1/17 18:22









 Re: Suzy

Post removed;

Moderator
Mike Balog

 2006/1/17 18:19





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