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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Non-hymns are evil?

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roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: Communicating with God

Quote:
whats YOUR "means" of touching or reaching God?


Prayer, meditation, and his Word.

Any of these elements may or may not involve music, ususally not. The prayer closet is still the main "means", or "place" where I pour out my heart before God, and he speaks to me - via his Spirit.

I'm not sure what you mean by "touch". I guess, I am more familiar with him "touching" me - in that he has a direct message for me - either in a personal word for me, direction, comfort, revelatory, or whatever.

I remember one Sunday in church when everyone was enjoying a time of worship with music, God called me to "aside", (in my spirit) to give me a personal message about my future within that church. He told me he would be calling me out sometime in the future. He also told me that their hearts were not "in tune" to his will. I was very sad, because of the loss; they were my friends..... Meanwhile, they were all "happily praising God", not willing to admit that he was not pleased with them.

Now you see why I say that it is not always an issue of hymns, or choruses, or chants, or whatever. It is an issue of obedience to God.
Diane






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Diane

 2005/12/30 17:43Profile
lovejt
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Joined: 2005/11/5
Posts: 124


 Re:

I was wondering how many songwriters are on here?
There are some great points. My musical background is pretty much modern.
>Frankly much of the "contemporary" Christian music lacks depth, with some >notable exceptions such as Keith Green.

I re-evaluated myself over the last year and much of what i was listening to and i came to the same conclusion as stated above. I believe there is a way, though, that you can write 'contemporary' and have depth. Thats what i pray for that kind of annointing. In that same year period, i started to study and listen to many of the hymns and I see what you mean by 'depth'. I love the fact that much of it is straight in the Word. Its truly a teaching reminder and there is no doubt you know what you are singing about. God is no mystery.

>It is said that man makes God in his own image. That applies to God's >"taste" of music. What >people like is what they believe God likes. And so >they believe that THEIR music is an acceptable >offering to God.

I love this quote Diane. Spot On.
There are people that make music 'style' a doctrine. One of the churches i visit is going through a struggle because one side wants Traditional and the other wants more modern and traditional (mix). I listen to alot of the pastors when they discuss this issue and I admire the way they are handling/dealing with it. For some people, they may leave a church because of this.

>On the same hand, I don't think many of the elder generation really "clicks" with the modern >style of praise, and so preffer hymns.

Groh, i also dig Reliant K. Great musicianship. :) Yeah, that is pretty much what is happening to that church.

Thanks for the link to the cyberhymns Rebecca. I'll definately check it out.

I love the hymns and i love modern. There is likely good and bad in both. Its something not to be so divided over and overturn a church.
I always feel challenged to improve and refine my songs to be better and better. I hope and pray that whatever comes out is pleasing to God and blesses others. I admit that my style has been changing more towards hymns. I believe you miss out so much if you neglect them.

happy new year,
-james





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james thorpe

 2005/12/31 5:40Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: Contemporary song writers

Quote:
I always feel challenged to improve and refine my songs to be better and better. I hope and pray that whatever comes out is pleasing to God and blesses others.


James, Your post was such a delight to read that I thought I’d bring the thread back up.

It’s funny how words tend to gain definition by the way they are used. That’s the way it is with the word, “Contemporary” In our modern churches we have come to equate that word with a certain style of music - a very narrow range. Contemporary really should refer to everything written in our time, just like everything written in the 19th century (or whatever era) was contemporary for that time.
A lot of present-day church music is controlled by CCLI and CCM. I’ll agree, a lot of it is trashy – not much creative talent behind them. But IT SELLS.

Nevertheless there is a lot of great music written today (ie, by our contemporaries) I have a friend who is a gifted and very creative Christian songwriter. She submitted some of her arrangements and was told: Your songs are absolutely beautiful, but we cannot publish them because we only publish what sells. (in other words, what’s popular)

So, keep looking, learning, and investigating, and you will find great treasures of human creativity.

There is a new hymnbook put out by Hope Pub. Co. called Worship and Rejoice It seems to have preserved some of the better contemporary songs for congregational singing. I think it has a broader spectrum of choices than many have become accustomed to.
Diane


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Diane

 2006/1/3 8:42Profile
CyberCarbon
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Joined: 2005/12/16
Posts: 122


 Shredding Hymnbooks

I have been reading a lot about revivals, brothers, and sisters who have been in the presence of our God. In some cases, they tore up the hymnbooks because they felt they were filthy rags compared to the glory and power revealed in His presence. I do not know why I am sharing this here and now, but I think it could be a great worship song. Tearing up the hymnbooks in your presence.


_________________
David Michael Paul

 2006/1/3 10:32Profile









 Re: Shredding Hymnbooks

Quote:
Tearing up the hymnbooks in your presence.

CC,

I don't know whether to laugh or cry!!! I'm laughing for now, but only because I hope someone would have the foresight to keep the hymnbooks for people who haven't been in His presence yet.... :-P

 2006/1/3 13:10
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: Tear your hearts or your hymnbooks?

Quote:
...brothers, and sisters who have been in the presence of our God. In some cases, they tore up the hymnbooks



Now this is interesting. Did some smash their guitars, being that they also are nothing compared to God's glory? Is this a prophetic foreshadowing of the final destruction, when all that is perishable will be consumed in God’s final judgment? Indeed the day will come when all our religious icons will be destroyed – whether hymn books, pulpits, drums, church buildings, PowerPoint projectors, drums, guitars, etc….

I think of an event in the New Testament when the people destroyed their religious idols – an indication of true repentance:
"Many of those who believed now came and openly confessed their evil deeds. A number who practiced sorcery brought their scrolls and burned them publicly." Acts 19:19

Now regarding the revival you speak of: Scripture calls us to test the spirits, as there are many false spirits around. I will do so by asking you a few questions:

Had the hymnbooks become idols in your church?
Did they get in the way of you first love, your devotion to God?
What else did the people destroy in this revival event?
Did some go home and destroy some of their excess material possessions, televisions, memorabilia?
Were there other signs of repentance – like a return to the Word of God, confession of sins, worldliness etc?

In the Old Testament times it was customary for the people to tear their robes when they experienced shocking grief. However, God did not want them to grieve merely because of their distressing situation. Instead, he wanted their hearts to be broken as a result of true confession of sin. God didn't want merely the outward expression of regret. He wanted inward sorrow for sin. Joel pleaded with the people, "Rend your heart and not your garments." Joel 2:12,13

I can’t help but wonder if God is really saying, “Rend your hearts, not your hymn books.”
What do you think, CyberCarbon?
Diane



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Diane

 2006/1/3 13:45Profile
CyberCarbon
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Joined: 2005/12/16
Posts: 122


 roadsign

Very thoughtful posting, my answer to your questions are my opinions not researched answers. I believe ripping the pages out of the hymnbooks was out of fear and trembling. In my original post, I said I read about it. I also heard it in Leonard Ravenhills VIDEO interview here on sermon index. In the interview Brother Ravenhill talks about a revival I believe in Wales, I think it was the revival that spread to Azusa Street. I hope you have the time to listen to it yourself. It may answer your questions better than my faulty memory.


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David Michael Paul

 2006/1/4 6:01Profile
PreachParsly
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Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re: roadsign

I've heard Ravenhill talk about people tearing the hymn books because of conviction under William Booth's preaching and WP Nicholson's.


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Josh Parsley

 2006/1/4 17:12Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 hymn-ripping revivals, by what spirit?

Quote:
I believe ripping the pages out of the hymnbooks was out of fear and trembling.


This seems like a real possibility. It is difficult sometimes, isn't it, to know what spirits are behind crowd behaviors? We know that mass hysteria is a very real thing - part of human behavior. Paul dealt with it.

And yet, revival is not neat and tidy. Holy Spirit conviction can be ovewhelming. Jonathan Edward's sermons were so powerful that people clung to the posts fearing that they would descend into hell.

Perhaps the test is in the long-term results.
I witnessed a situation where the pastor pronounced that we should pass around a garbage can throughout the sanctuary and throw away all hymn books. He was responding to the wrong spirit working on him. Sadly his ministry declined rapidly after that. He fell into a lot of sin and refused to admit it. His was fired and left the ministry altogether.

So, you see why I ask lots of questions. I have heard many "accounts" of the Spirit moving, only to discover that it was the wrong spirit.
May God give us all discernment!!!
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I think I listened to Ravenhill message a while ago, just don't remember about the hymnbook ripping event.


_________________
Diane

 2006/1/4 20:42Profile
GaryE
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Joined: 2005/4/26
Posts: 376
Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania

 Re: hymn-ripping revivals, by what spirit?


There is a page torn out of a hymnal at the truck stop chapel in Milton, Pa. I have always wondered why someone would cut Blessed Assurance out of this hymnal. Maybe the person sensed that Blessed Assurance is valuable. Hopefully, the person has found blessed assurance in his or her heart by now instead of in his or her pocket.






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Gary Eckenroth

 2006/1/5 1:48Profile





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