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Joined: 2005/8/31
Posts: 61
Hartselle, Alabama

 England following Sodom?

It's all over the news; England has just passed its Same-Sex Common Law measure, with Elton John and his "partner" as one of the first couples to "tie the knot" (shudder). Where does this end?

The trouble sounds too much like what happened in Sodom and Ghomorra, with the Benjamites in Judges 19-21, and in several of the New Testament cities (like Ephesus, Corinth, etc.). In history, the Empire of Rome fell when it stooped to Sodomy, lasciviousness, vast spending of wealth on entertainment and wellfare, etc...all decaying the integrity of that Super Power: Sound familiar?

May we fulfill the prophet Jeremiah's words, "Turn us again unto you, oh Lord, and we will be turned." Yes, in the name of Christ, let that be so. Amen.

Among the faithful,

 2005/12/21 17:26Profile

Joined: 2005/8/10
Posts: 98
Iowa U.S.

 Re: England following Sodom?

I heard this on the news today, became nausious very deep inside.

Jeremiah learned well how to prayer from those before him.

Lamentations 5:21
Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

Psalm 80:3
Turn us again, O God, and cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved.

Psalm 80:7
Turn us again, O God of hosts, and cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved.

Psalm 80:19
Turn us again, O LORD God of hosts, cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved.

Psalm 85:4
Turn us, O God of our salvation, and cause thine anger toward us to cease.

Eileen Teitsworth

 2005/12/21 20:16Profile

 Re: England following Sodom?

Let me ask the believers here on Sermon Index, why are we so concerned over what the world does, are we trying to change it and make it a better place for us to live in?

There is nothing new under the sun.

Paul tells us not to interfer into the affairs of this world, but to take what we need from it and leave it alone.

The world will continue to do what the world will do, sin!

By passing a few laws here and there to keep homosexuals from doing what they do, does that law make better homosexuals? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, they will continue do so in secret. So does passing those laws make them righteous, because they can't openly declare their sexuality?

In other words, are we trying to change them by passing laws?

In 1967 according to David Wilkerson's Teen Challenge there were 1 Million known homosexuals in the world. 38 years later, there is no doubt a whole lot more.

So what if they pass their laws and make homosexuals free to do whatever they want. Why are we involving in the worlds politics?

Abortionists have been around for centuries, they pass laws to make it legal, but what if they pass laws to make it illegal? They'll do it anyways in secret.

What Christians want is to live in a Christian world governed by the laws of the bible. But you can't push those ism's onto the world because it was not meant for the world, they will only do what thier nature can only do and that is to rebel.

David Wilkerson said in his book the Vision that the true church of Jesus Christ would become more and more invisible and it would go underground. Underground meaning that it's voice will not be heard. Those so called christian groups who do activist work trying to change the world, and fight with gays and lesbians and abortionists etc.. will only bring more hate towards God and His Christ.

As believers we need to leave the world to God (He knows who are His) and let Him lead and direct us to those who are fitted for the Kingdom of God.


 2005/12/21 22:52

Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37708
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11


So what if they pass their laws and make homosexuals free to do whatever they want. Why are we involving in the worlds politics?

This has nothing to do with worldly politics. Its to do with the word of God. Sodomy is one of the evils that is pervading the church because we are finding more of the world in the church then the church in the world. There must be church discipline and a standard for what is right and wrong in the church.

Any person who continues in willful sin will be apart from God, no matter how much you have read the word of God or prayed to God. There needs to be an hearing of God's voice and heeding to it. And the voice says come to the cross and let go of all sin.

SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2005/12/21 22:56Profile

Joined: 2005/8/31
Posts: 61
Hartselle, Alabama


Brother Karl,

I agree somewhat. The passing of laws will only lead to a hypocrital nation; yet, if we search church history, Paul sought to vindicate himself before the courts as well as preach the gospel in them as well. Justin Martyr pleaded to the Roman emperor Titus for the protection of the Christians, while also proclaiming the Word with "power, with the Holy Spirit, and much assurance".

Indeed, it was Christians that abolished slavery from England and America. Would we sit by and allow a man to be flogged because of his skin? Or would righteous anger course through our veins to counteract such measures of cruelty? Communism falls before the edge of the Holy Word's sword (read Richard Wurmbrand's testimony to see that); however, we can't fully remove persecution and sin (since that would be calling Christ a liar, who said "surely you will have tribulation in this shall have persecution"). Let us, though, seek to abound in good works in every chance we can (including those who are judges, lawyers, and politicians among the fold; better a righteous judge than an unrighteous one: Ps. 1 and 2).


 2005/12/21 23:03Profile


My brother Benjamin,

I agree with you 100%.

I would encourage you to re read my last reply and to see what angle I am coming from.


 2005/12/21 23:18


I agree Greg

What there needs to be which is hard to find in Churches today is a welcoming of those who struggle with homosexuality and the offering of help attached to the welcome, for I tell you the truth, there is such a hatred from the Church towards homosexuals. Not just towards the sin, but towards the homosexual himself.

Gays have sought help from the church only to be riduculed and condemned by the Pastor and on down the ranks.

Yes standards are necessary, so is longsuffering with those who desire to change, for some it can be instantaneous, others it's a long term. There are scores of homosexuals who have been hurt and betrayed by the very Church they have attended for years, the Church is much to be blamed and God is not impressed.

I have come to the conclusion that the Church does not want to deal with homosexuals, they would rather have them outside their doors and go some place else and find treatment and then come back.

Exodus International and other ex gay ministries are just a drop in the bucket and are generally situated in larger metropolitian cities and it's difficult for many to just up root themselves and to attend these conferences and sessions.

The church today is a joke, and it needs an overhaul, we have left our first love. When we love Jesus, we'll love anybody, and love will cover a multitude of sins. Amen?


 2005/12/21 23:35


Amen, Karl.

Greg, I think Karl has a point, about the process of overcoming sin. Only God knows a heart, and there are many other indulgences which Christians worry about less, which nevertheless betray an indisciplined or sloppy attitude towards obedience. Only the individual themselves will know if they have stopped lusting after a forbidden fruit. In the meantime, as they walk in the light, as He is in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses from [i][b][u]all[/u][/i][/b] sin, and we have fellowship one with another. It's a Holy Ghost thing, to know with glorious finality, that one has come into the [i]experience[/i] of [u]the[/u] victory, which Jesus won on the cross.

 2005/12/22 3:31

Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK


Are we to be the world's legislator or its conscience?
Is our task to reform or to preach repentance?

Ron Bailey

 2005/12/22 8:28Profile

Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924


bro Ron

Are we to be the world's legislator or its conscience?Is our task to reform or to preach repentance?

If we preached repentance wouldn't it lead to reform? repentance as i'm sure you know is not a very popular topic in most congregations. however i don't think we should just lay there and not call something wrong that is wrong. the bible condemns homosexuality and that being said many other things. in light of that, there is much more we need to be speaking out about :-(...bro Ron if i may ask, how do you feel about it?

Farai Bamu

 2005/12/22 12:38Profile

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