Wouldn't the real question of predestination be (using the ship analogy) HOW did anyone even get on the ship? Did you get onboard out of your own strength or did you need God to lift you up and place you on board?-David
Amen! Shelly. You know the truth! I will have to copy your thoughts for they are concise!In ChristJeff
i'd like to add a little something to this debate. i believe in the total depravity of man. man, when left to his own devises and apart from the drawing of the Holy Spirit, i believe, will always choose sin over God. in keeping with the spirit of that thought, why would i believe that apart from the drawing of the Holy Spirit man would choose to come to Christ. i do not believe that man would. i believe that God predestines and has foreknowledge of all those who will trust in Him. i'm not john piper, but his book 'the pleasures of God' would explain this concept to anyone better than i ever could.
Many are called but few are chosen.In ChristJeff
"God will not hold us responsible to understand the mysteries of election, predestination and the divine sovereignity. The best and safest way to deal with these truths is to raise our eyes to God and in deepest reverence say, O Lord, Thou knowest. Those things belong to the deep and mysterious Profound of Gods omniscience. Prying into them may make theologians, but it will never make saints (Tozer) I found this on another site. I don't know its origin.
The quote comes from chapter 5 of Tozer's "The Pursuit of God".