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 Who is 'a Jew inwardly'?

This matter has been on my mind for quite a few weeks, and I feel the need of scholarly input.

I'm not hoping to stir up trouble [i][b]at all[/i][/b], but, there seem to me to be differences of opinion about the work of the Spirit, depending on one's ethnic origin. I can't find any basis in scripture for this.

Can anyone?

This is a quote from another thread, which sparks this post.

Quote:
The word needs to be written in someone's heart that does not have the Holy Spirit already there, and that would be Israel that has not been born again by believing in the Christ of God the Father.

Hbr 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

He is not a God to us but we are to pray this way, Our Father who art in Heaven. He is our Father and we are not His people Israel we are son's of God and Joint heirs with Christ to the Father's house with Christ the first Fruits. All that the Father has is The Son's and all that the Son has He has given to us.

Whoever comes to Christ, needs to be born again and the method is the same for everyone; and everyone who is born again, is of equal status in God - children of the Father.

Galatians 3
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Romans 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and [b]circumcision is that of the heart[/b], in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Romans 3
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Deuteronomy 10
15 Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day.
16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.


As I understand it, all Gentiles who have been born again, have received circumcision of their hearts, by faith, exactly the same as anyone of non-Gentile origin.

Yes?

EDIT: Maybe I'm missing a whole lot of understanding that everyone else knows.... but the way it strikes me, is, we ALL (not shouting... just emphasising... ) must come into the spiritual ethnicity and culture of Christ, to be children of the Father, with the kingdom of God [i]within[/i] us. This is what it means to be 'born from above'. EDIT end.

 2005/11/15 14:10
jimbob
Member



Joined: 2005/9/25
Posts: 131


 Re: Who is 'a Jew inwardly'?

It looks as if you've discovered the difference between a covenant/reformed veiw and a dispensational veiw of scriptures. I have come to the conclusion that the covenant/reformed veiw is correct, that there is no distinction between jew or gentile in Christ, God has no seperate agenda for the Jewish nation as far as salvation is concerned. That puts me into a small minority of Christians who hold that veiw.

If you are interested in seeing a minority viewpoint you can Google "covenant theology and amillennialism" and " new covenant critique of dispensationalism"

 2005/11/16 12:58Profile









 Re: Who is 'a Jew inwardly'?

Hello Jimbob,

Knowing God is utterly consistent, I simply try to see how it all makes sense when you build it into a 3d structure with a proper foundation.

I don't know anything about dispensationalism - at least not so I could explain it to someone else - except every time anyone uses it to explain something, it seems to lead to [i]dis-joints[/i] rather than continuity, and since God has not changed and time doesn't stand still, I turn back to scripture to seek [i]flow[/i], again.


 2005/11/16 17:44
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Sister Dorcas wrote:

Quote:
I don't know anything about dispensationalism - at least not so I could explain it to someone else - except every time anyone uses it to explain something, it seems to lead to dis-joints rather than continuity, and since God has not changed and time doesn't stand still, I turn back to scripture to seek flow, again.




I once was quoting Scripture from the book of Hebrews which spoke of warning the believers that they must perservere. And of course it has to do with the Once Saved Always Saved doctrine. What totally surprised me was that this man's response to my questioning him about these Scriptures.

He said that the book of Hebrews does not apply to the gentile church. He said that it applies only to Jewish believers.

This type of understanding comes from dispensational theology. The teaching of this theology forces one to cut out entire books of the Bible. Why, because we choose to honor men before God. Why, we choose to remain blind and not hear the word of God. Why, we choose carnality over the law of the Spirit of Christ. Why, we want to be friends with the world.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2005/11/17 15:39Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Sister Dorcas wrote:

Quote:
As I understand it, all Gentiles who have been born again, have received circumcision of their hearts, by faith, exactly the same as anyone of non-Gentile origin.



I believe as you, yet many do not want to go beyond the elementary principles and ordinances of God. If one allows the Scriptures to lead them as the Holy Spirit speaks, the heart becomes the center of God's work in us. What is the substance of our hope? How does the circumcision of the heart relate to the substance for which we strive to attain?

What does the Holy Spirit say to those who deny parts of Scripture?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2005/11/18 12:32Profile









 Re: Who is 'a Jew inwardly'?

Quote:
If one allows the Scriptures to lead them as the Holy Spirit speaks, the heart becomes the center of God's work in us.

Hi Jeff,

Would you care to define 'heart' for me, here?

Quote:
What is the substance of our hope?

I'd answer this question from Romans 8 mainly.

Quote:
How does the circumcision of the heart relate to the substance for which we strive to attain?

Hmmm... 'strive'?

Hebrews 3
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 [u]For we are made partakers of Christ, [b]if[/b][/u] we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; 15 while it is said,

'To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.'

16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? Was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that [b]they [u]could not[/u] enter in because of unbelief[/b].

Hebrews 4
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: [u]but the word preached did not profit them, not [b]being mixed with faith[/b] in them that heard it[/u].
3 For [u]we [b]which have believed[/b] do enter into rest[/u], as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

11 [b]Let us [u]labour[/u] therefore [u]to enter into that rest[/u], lest any man [u]fall after the same example of unbelief[/u][/b].

Quote:
What does the Holy Spirit say to those who deny parts of Scripture?

I know what John said. Is this what you meant?

Revelation 22
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 and [u]if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy[/u], [b]God shall take away his part out of the book of life[/b], and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 2005/11/20 11:58
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Sister wrote:

Quote:
Would you care to define 'heart' for me, here?



Without quoting Scripture to define heart in an exhaustive study, I see Scripture teaching us that the heart represents what motivates us to do the things we do. This is seperate from what we profess to believe in our minds. What is the essence, what is the object of our motivation? Scripture paints a picture of what God is and what He wants for His creation. We as His creation have desires. Scripture always teaches that outwardly our lives become the evidence of what we strive for. We become a picture of the desires that we seek to satisfy.

The circumcision of the heart represents the work of God taking away those desires that leave us in bondage to sin. The circumcision also represents what God does to fill the house that has been swept clean. It must be both, for if the house is left empty, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life will come back to again be the substance of the desires for which we strive. Circumcision done by God discards the corrupt hope, the carnal hope with the incorruptible hope, the spiritual hope.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2005/11/21 11:44Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:

Since this is talking about true vs false Jews, I ask: Who are these Jews mentioned in Revelation, and can we apply these verses today? Do they relate to Rom. 3 (the above references)

"I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan." Rev. 2:9
" ...those who are of the Synagogue of Satan, who CLAIM to be Jews through they are not, but liers..." Rev. 3:9
Diane


_________________
Diane

 2005/11/21 14:55Profile









 Re: Who is 'a Jew inwardly'?

Hi Diane,

The KJV, the NKNV and the NASB all use the word 'blasphemy' instead of 'slander', but the TEV (Good News) is closer to the Young's Literal:

Revelation 2:9
I have known thy works, and tribulation, and poverty--yet thou art rich--and the evil-speaking of those saying themselves to be Jews, and are not, but [are] a synagogue of the Adversary.


I think the Jews in Rom 3 are Jews by birth. It seems less clear here. I was reading this today and posted it in another thread but, it fits here too.

Matthew 23:13 to the end, but especially
15 `Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye go round the sea and the dry land to make one proselyte, and whenever it may happen--ye make him a son of gehenna twofold more than yourselves.
25 `Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye make clean the outside of the cup and the plate, and within they are full of rapine and incontinence.
28 so also ye outwardly indeed do appear to men righteous, and within ye are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

These remind me of Hebrews 4
9 there doth remain, then, a sabbatic rest to the people of God, 10 for he who did enter into his rest, he also rested from his works, as God from His own.

11 May we be diligent, then, to enter into that rest, that no one in the same example of the unbelief may fall, 12 [u]for [b]the reckoning of God[/b] is living[/u], and working, and sharp above every two-edged sword, and piercing unto the dividing asunder both of soul and spirit, of joints also and marrow, and a discerner [u]of thoughts and intents of the [b]heart[/b][/u];

This is similar in thought to Hebrews 3
10 wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, Always do they go astray in heart, and these have not known My ways; 11 so I sware in My anger, If they shall enter into My rest--!') 12 See, brethren, lest there shall be in any of you [u]an [b]evil heart[/b] of unbelief in the falling away from the living God[/u], 13 but exhort ye one another every day, while the To-day is called, that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of the sin,

Possibly there are some clues there.

 2005/11/21 19:27
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 What are the implications for today?

Quote:
15 `Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye go round the sea and the dry land to make one proselyte, and whenever it may happen--ye make him a son of gehenna twofold more than yourselves.



I'm trying to see the relevance for us today. I know that is risky, lest some "antisemetic" implications seem to surface. Nevertheless, it is in Scripture - and a clear warning to the churches.

What are we to watch out for?


_________________
Diane

 2005/11/21 22:36Profile





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