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groh_frog
Member



Joined: 2005/1/5
Posts: 432


 Only some sin leads to death?

I was reading another article talking about habitual sin, which reminded me of a verse that I came across a while ago. I don't remember it exactly, but maybe some of you will.

It was talking about how some sin leads to death, and some sin does not. I could tell you that it's NT, but that's about it. Also, I was using NIV, so I don't think it's just a far-out translation.

My question, is if any of you have come across this, as I have, what is it talking about? Where is it?

I had talked with my wife about it briefly but not fully understanding it. Is it talking about, say, compulsive sin versus inconscious sin? How do you explain it?

Thanks again, all, for the help.

Grace and Peace...

 2005/11/9 1:27Profile
Warrior4Jah
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Joined: 2005/7/5
Posts: 382
The Netherlands

 Re: Only some sin leads to death?

Hey groh_frog!

This verse popped up to me.
It doesn't say that "the wages of some sin is death"

([b]Rom 6:23[/b]) [i]For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.[/i]

That only some sins lead to death is new for me..
But perhaps there is some verse I haven't looked into yet?


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Jonathan Veldhuis

 2005/11/9 4:12Profile
shibu
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Joined: 2003/9/13
Posts: 230
Goa, India

 Re: Only some sin leads to death?

1 John 5:16 says "If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. [b]There is sin leading to death.[/b] I do not say that he should pray about that."

Lord Jesus Himself spoke in Mark 3:29 "he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation" and in Matthew 12:32 "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come."

Whomsoever consciously blaspheme against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven either in this age or in the age to come.

In Him,
Shibu


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Shibu Clement

 2005/11/9 4:53Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Whomsoever consciously blaspheme against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven either in this age or in the age to come.



Personally this does not help me as I have had to try to understand what exactly blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is. I think a lot of Christians worry unnecessarily. I have personally been at times in the past more afraid of this one bit of scripture than anything else. I think that it is a state of heart rather than a single sin and I think it is where in your heart you utterly reject the Holy Spirit and all that He stands for and choose consciously to go against Him. I have noticed that it doesn't actually say if the pharisees had comitted that sin but either they had, or they were in great danger of doing so as they were prepared to go as far as saying that what Jesus was doing was from the devil and that is blasphemy and utterly refusing to accept that He was of God when they knew that He was and it was refusing to acknowledge that the Holy Spirit was working through Him. I think that to run away from the truth is one thing but to go that step further is another thing altogether. Obviously we would not get that exact same situation now but that is why I believe that it is a complete and deliberate hardening of your heart in spite of what you know is true. I guess that is why we will never know if someone has truly committed this sin and I guess should always continue to pray for people who have gone off the track as only God can see the heart. I have gone off the track enough times but God has been very faithful and continues to bring me back to Him and I am very grateful to Him for not giving up on me.

That is what I think anyway.

Liz

 2005/11/9 5:35
Warrior4Jah
Member



Joined: 2005/7/5
Posts: 382
The Netherlands

 Re:

So we could say that all sins lead to death, but apart from only one all can be forgiven?

About that unforgivable sin, perhaps thats when God knows that a person will never repent?
If you will never repent you can never be forgiven for sure. (right?)


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Jonathan Veldhuis

 2005/11/9 5:43Profile
Eli_Barnabas
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Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 621
Cache Valley, Utah

 Re:

I've always seen blaspemy of the Holy Spirit is explained in the context of that verse.

Look at Mark 3... Jesus is saying this to the Pharisees after they just accused Him of casting out demons by Beelzebub. The Pharisees said this knowing full well Jesus was not possessed and was performing the miracles by the Father. I believe, then, that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is calling the Holy Spirit unholy when you know it is not.

Does this make sense?
Blessings,
-Eli


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Eli Brayley

 2005/11/9 9:17Profile









 Re: Only some sin leads to death?


Eli,

I think they went further than suggesting the Holy Spirit was 'unholy'. They said Jesus was operating under the influence of an [u]unclean[/u] spirit. Someone may wish to correct me here, but as far as I can tell the adjectives given to 'spirits' (demons) in scripture, seem to be at the discretion of the translators - so unclean=evil=foul - spirit

(KJV) Mark 3

28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

[b]30 Because [i]they said[/i], [u]He hath an unclean spirit[/u][/b].

 2005/11/9 11:33
Eli_Barnabas
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 621
Cache Valley, Utah

 Re:

Yeah thanks for clarifying that, Dorcas, that is sort of what I meant.


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Eli Brayley

 2005/11/9 11:35Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 resisting the Spirit

I think it helps to look at the wider context of scripture - like when people actually did end up in death.
I think of Israel who refused to "enter his rest" because of unbelief (discussed in Hebrews) I think of the five virgins who were unprepared, the rich man who made more barns, .... etc. Jesus gave a lot of examples - especially in parables. So what was the common sin that lead to their spiritual death: It was unbelief, and refusal to listen.

Then we must ask: What is the role of the Holy Spirit? It is to bring conviction. So when people who are being prompted by the convicting power of the Spirit, YET refuse God's redemption, then they are actually committing a sin that leads to death.
Can there be any greater sin against the Spirit.

I see this played out in the lives of many people. At one time or other they made a choice to resist the Spirit. They refuse to submit to God. I watch a gradual decaying of their lives.
Some slip into legalism and religiosity which just wears them out or makes them feel empty. Some get overly occupied with their earthly passion, their work, or whatever. But it only takes them in a downward direction - ultimately - death.



Diane




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Diane

 2005/11/9 12:52Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

This is the Methodist commentator Adam Clark's contribution:5 16 Verse 16. A sin which is not unto death] This is an extremely difficult passage, and has been variously interpreted. What is the sin not unto death, for which we should ask, and life shall be given to him that commits it? And what is the sin unto death, for which we should not pray?

I shall note three of the chief opinions on this subject:-

1. It is supposed that there is here an allusion to a distinction in the Jewish law, where there was chattaah lemithah, "a sin unto death;" and chattaah lo lemithah, "a sin not unto death;" that is, 1. A sin, or transgression, to which the law had assigned the punishment of death; such as idolatry, incest, blasphemy, breach of the Sabbath, and the like. And 2. A sin not unto death, i.e. transgressions of ignorance, inadvertence, appear to be comparatively light and trivial. That such distinctions did exist in the Jewish synagogue both Schoettgen and Carpzovius have proved.

2. By the sin not unto death, for which intercession might be made, and unto death, for which prayer might not be made, we are to understand transgressions of the civil law of a particular place, some of which must be punished with death, according to the statutes, the crime admitting of no pardon: others might be punished with death, but the magistrate had the power of commuting the punishments, i.e. of changing death into banishment, reasons that might appear to him satisfactory, or at the intercession of powerful friends. To intercede in the former case would be useless, because the law would not relax, therefore they need not pray for it; but intercession in the latter case might be prevalent, therefore they might pray; and if they did not, the person might suffer the punishment of death. This opinion, which has been advanced by Rosenmuller, intimates that men should feel for each other's distresses, and use their influence in behalf of the wretched, nor ever abandon the unfortunate but where the case is utterly hopeless.

3. The sin unto death means a case of transgression, particularly of grievous backsliding from the life and power of godliness, which God determines to punish with temporal death, while at the same time he extends mercy to the penitent soul. The disobedient prophet, 1Ki 13:1-32, is, on this interpretation, a case in point: many others occur in the history of the Church, and of every religious community. The sin not unto death is any sin which God does not choose thus to punish. This view of the
subject is that taken by the late Rev. J. Wesley, in a sermon entitled, A Call to Backsliders.-WORKS, vol ii. page 239.

I do not think the passage has any thing to do with what is termed the sin against the Holy Ghost; much less with the popish doctrine of purgatory; nor with sins committed before and after baptism, the former pardonable, the latter unpardonable, according to some of the fathers. Either of the last opinions (viz., 2 and 3) make a good sense; and the first (1) is not unlikely: the apostle may allude to some maxim or custom in the Jewish Church which is not now distinctly known. However, this we know, that any penitent may find mercy through Christ Jesus; for through him every kind of sin may be forgiven to man, except the sin against the Holy Ghost; which I have proved no man can now commit. See the note on Mt 12:31, 39.I am with John Wesley on this one; I think option 3 is the more likely to my way of thinking.


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Ron Bailey

 2005/11/9 15:56Profile





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