| Baptisms and Baptisms|
After reading the thread about the Baptism of the Spirit... I thought I would start this thread.
1. Water Baptism (this one most have an understanding of so it may not need to be hit upon as much but I had to list it)
2. Baptism of the Spirit.
Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
3. Baptism of Jesus.
Mat 20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
4. Baptism into death.
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
And then we have this verse that would seen to contridict everything I have posted..
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
What is everyones thoughts?
If there are anymore 'baptisms' that someone can think of go ahead and mention it.
| 2005/10/28 9:17||Profile|
| Re: Baptisms and Baptisms|
I found this that Philologos put together... It is interesting. [url=http://www.mybiblebase.com/pdfs/RonBailey/otbaptisms.pdf]OT Hidden Baptisms[/url]
| 2005/10/28 12:00||Profile|
| Re: Baptism - the real thing|
I found the article by Philologos very insightful. Because of his understanding of Old Testament Hebrew he was able to extract thoughts that otherwise would not be seen. I will read it again so it sinks in.
What is everyones thoughts?
Well, I just finished writing up my own thoughts, and since you asked, I will share - though I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for:
The public baptism - a symbol of repentance
In many countries, a vow to accept Christianity is not taken seriously until the converts are baptized. Public baptism signifies their intent to turn away from the religion of their society. Not until after they are baptized, do they risk receiving hostile rejection. They may be banished from their homes. They may lose their jobs and even their lives. For them, baptism is an outward expression of radical and costly repentance. It is like a public burn of all one's idols. It is a way of saying, "rubbish" to everything in the past.
The rite of baptism goes way back into pre-New Testament history. It was a washing ceremony signifying a departure from paganism. It was an initiation into Judaism.
In John's day, the only ones who were required to be baptized where the pagans who converted to Judaism. When John came preaching a baptism of repentance" Lk. 3:3 he was essentially discounting their entire Judaic heritage. He was treating them as pagans. He was challenging their entire view of salvation. Think how offensive that must have been!
I believe that if John the Baptist was to come into our churches today, he'd preach the same message. And it would be equally offensive to be told to repent and be baptized. It would be like discrediting our past baptisms and confessions of faith. That would all mean nothing to him. He may as well tell us that we are no better than pagans. His message would be a challenge to our entire view of salvation. Nevertheless, it is a message we need to hear today, because in our day the church is much like Israel was in John's day.
The better baptism: the real thing!
John spoke of a far better baptism than merely a symbolic purification rite. He announced the real thing! He said,
"I baptize you with water for repentance.
But after me will come one who
will baptize you with Holy Spirit and with fire." Matt. 3:11
John was referring to Christ and his Spirit. After Christ's resurrection, the Holy Spirit would come and baptize with fire - that is, the Spirit would be like a purifying fire that separates the pure gold out from the dross. Christ's Spirit would "convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment." Jn. 16:8 This cleansing fire of the Spirit would purify hearts by bringing the guilt to the surface, and then burning it away through the blood sacrifice of Christ and his forgiveness. Christ's Spirit would baptize by bringing about the death the old nature with its self rule, which would be submerged with the crucifixtion of Christ - buried and gone!
"All of you who were baptized into Christ Jesus
were baptized into his death.
We were therefore buried with him
through baptism into death
in order that
we too may live a new life." Rom. 6:3
Through this baptism of the Sprit, our corruptable old nature is repaced with Christ's new life, which is clean and free from the stain of sin. Through baptism by the Spirit, we "have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness
slaves to God." Rom. 6:18,22
After Jesus was resurrected, he reinforced John's message about the coming Spirit. He said, "For John baptized with water, but in a few days, you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit." Acts 1:5 That is exactly what happened at Pentecost. The Holy Spirit cut through the barriers and convicted many people of their sins. Their eyes were opened and they were so "cut to the heart" that they cried out for salvation. They asked the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do to be saved?' Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized." Acts 2:38 In other words, he said, "You must make a drastic departure from your Judaic traditions, and instead you must accept the Christ." Wow! What a shock that must have been to these people who had always viewed themselves as God's chosen. Nevertheless, they accepted that drastic baptism of death. That day God's glory came because three thousand repented. Their public baptism in the water signified the sincerity of their choice.
The symbolic act involving water, in itself, means nothing; but what it represents means everything. What the symbolism looks like is not the issue. What God sees within our hearts and minds is what counts - for eternity!
| 2005/10/28 12:57||Profile|
though I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for
Sure.. thats what I'm looking for I was just wanting to see some discussion and thoughts on it.
| 2005/10/28 14:47||Profile|
| Re: A question|
In John 1:24 'Now some Pharisees who had been sent questioned him, "Why then do you baptize if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?"
This question baffles me. Why did they ask it?
Was it because John the Baptist was not a recognized Jewish leader, and therefor not "qualified" to baptize? (like today someone who is not a recognized church leader baptizing outside of a church-sanctioned service) Are the Pharisees questioning John's authority to baptize?
Why did they say; "...if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet" Did Elijah baptize? Where did they get the idea that the Messiah would be baptizing? from the Old Testament??
| 2005/10/30 8:19||Profile|