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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Trinity Debate: Need Help

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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK


I think we have moved on to the edges and thought that a laying down on the fundamentals might help to see the issues more clearly. I have started a new thread [url=]godhead.[/url]

Ron Bailey

 2005/11/3 6:31Profile

Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA


Dear Diane,

So what?

I agree that the important thing in all this is to recognize the diety of Christ in relation to ourselves. We are less and Christ is more. When we truly recognize this, we will seek after Him for salvation. In addition, there is a crucial aspect to all this you must realize.

God desires our worship. God, as a person with an established identity, wants our worship chosen in love. He doesn't want us to just worship any God or any person, He wants us to worship specifically Him.

Exodus 20:3 (NLT)
Do not worship any other gods besides me.

Exodus 34:14 (NLT)
You must worship no other gods, but only the LORD, for he is a God who is passionate about his relationship with you.

Deuteronomy 5:9a (NLT)
You must never worship or bow down to them, for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God who will not share your affection with any other god!

Mark 12:29-30 (NLT)
29 Jesus replied, "The most important commandment is this: 'Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is the one and only Lord. 30 And you must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, and all your strength.'

The worship we give God is not forced. God wants our love, which means He wants us to worship Him by choice. He wants us to worship Him willingly. He has taken great pains, including death, to make sure that we have this freedom in order to make this choice.

How can you worship God if you don't know Him? How can you love God, if you don't know Him?

This goes beyond theology and doctrine. What we are talking about is establishing a relationship. You can't have an intimate relationship with a person that you don't know. How many people have fallen in love with each other, and yet have never met?

John 4:23-24 (NLT)
But the time is coming and is already here when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for anyone who will worship him that way. 24 For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.

To worship God in truth means to worship the true God in true love. In order to worship the true God, you must know who He is. In order to worship God in true love, you must be able to choose God by choice without fear of consequence. Jesus made a way for this to be possible. We come to Jesus by faith, by believing in Him. The diety of Christ is not something forced upon us either, it is something we choose to accept willingly. We choose to submit unto Christ as our Lord.

The second part says that we must worship God in Spirit. This implies that we must worship God in a specific way. God doesn't want us to worship Him in just any way.

Deuteronomy 12:4 (NLT)
"Do not worship the LORD your God in the way these pagan peoples worship their gods.

God wants our worship to be reflective of Him, to be in Spirit. We could easily go out and do evil things and say we are doing them for God. However, this is not worshipping God in Spirit. To worship God in Spirit, is to be willingly controlled by the Spirit of God, so that our worship brings honor and glory to God. It means our worship is good, and only God can be good. Therefore, in order for our worship to be good, we must be filled with God.

Lastly, God is Spirit. So, in order to worship Him in truth, we must do so in Spirit.

As you can see, understanding God is an important matter. It is important for the development of our relationship with Him. It is important in our worship to Him. It is important for having our prayers answered.

I hope this helps,
In love,


Blake Kidney

 2005/11/3 8:50Profile

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710


Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

We as Christ Ones are chosen from our mothers womb to have this Mystery born again in us, that is Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

We were with Christ on the Cross and our old self, the old man that Paul speaks about in Romans was crucified with Christ. It is no longer us who live this Christian Life but Christ who lives in us. This is the power of all that we are as Christians.
Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

We are one with Christ as Christ is one with the Father.
Jhn 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Jhn 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we [are].

The Holy Spirit is our teacher to learn this Christ that is in us.

Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

I don't like to commingle Christ's message of the Kingdom with the Gospel of Paul, which is Christ in you, not Jesus of Nazareth offering Himself to Israel as King. This is a very good scripture that shows that, Seek the Christ who is in you and The Holy Spirit that teaches Him and all these things will be added to us.

Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Who is the Kingdom of God? Christ.

In Christ: Phillip


 2005/11/4 14:02Profile

Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619

 Re: Pictures and Types

"When it comes to the average person on the street, or in the pew, what REALLY is the issue we are dealing with regarding trinity doctrine?"

While our held doctrine of the Trinity is a matter of our objective faith, the real issue of the Trinity has to do with our experience of God. For Instance Ephesians 2:18 says, 'We both have access in one Spirit to God the Father through Jesus Christ". This is conserning not our opinion but our comming to and access to God in experience.

Unless we realize that God is Triune, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit and that the three of the Godhead not only mutually co-exist but also co-inhere and cannot be separated, We cannot enter into the enjoyment of the Triune God in our experience.

I believe most Christians have the view that the Father sent the Son from Heaven, The Son returned and sent the Holy Spirit to take His place. This is a very Trithiestic view of God.

The Fact revealed in Scripture is that the Father sent the Son but the Father was also in the Son. Jesus said, "the Father who is in Me, He does the works". This is co-inherence. The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father. The Spirit is the transmission or outflowing of the Father in the Son bringing the Triune God into us.

The Father is the Fountian, the Son is the Spring, and the Spirit is the river of the Water of Life.

IN John 14 the Lord Jesus said, "In that day (when the Spirit comes) you shall know that I am in My Father and you are in Me and I am in you". This is related to our experience. The Father is in the Son and the Son is in us as the Spirit. And we are in the Son and the Son is in the FAther. Where HE is we are there also. And this reality is made known to us in our experience by the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:45 says of Christ in resurrection, "the Last Adam became a Life Giving Spirit" That is, in resurrection Christ's humanity was glorified and as He died as the last Adam in the old creation, in resurrection He brought into being the New Creation and as the Life Giving Spirit imparts Himself into us to be our indwelling LIfe when we believe into HIm.

And comming into us He comes in in all that He is as the embodimemt of the Triune God, crucified and resurrected. So today the Spirit which we recive includes all that Christ is and all He has accomplished. IN the New Testament the Spirit is called, "the Holy Spirit, the Life Giving Spirit, the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of Jesus, the Spirit of Jesus Christ, the Spirit of Holyness, and just plain "the Spirit in Galatians"

As Andrew Murray points out in his book, 'The Spirit of Christ" The Spirit in the New Testament is not just the Divine Spirit, but the Divine Spirit interwoven or "compounded" with Christ's glorified humanity so that we recieve not merely the Spirit of God but also the Spirit of God with glorified humanity in Christ.

This is also in keeping with the Type of the Holy anointing oil in Exoduse which was a compound of Olive Oil (which always signifies the Divine Spirit) and 4 spices which signify Christ's humanity, His death and its effectiveness, and His resurrection and its power.

IT is in reference to this that in John 7 when the Lord Jesus spoke of the rivers of Living water which would flow out of us, it is written, "But this He spake of the Spirit who was not yet because Jesus had not been glorified.

Unless we get hold of the reality that the Spirit who indwells us in our regenerated spirit is not just a divine influence, but God Himself and includes everything Christ is and has accomplished, we will not fully enter into and enjoy this rich treasure which has been sown into us.

Unless we realize that the FAther is not merely off somewhere in heaven but is in the Son and the Son is in us we will not have the enjoyment of fellowship with the FAther in the Son through the Spirit. And that the Son is not only in heaven enthroned, but He is also within us as the Life Giving Spirit. As It is written in 1 Cor 6:17, He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit. Our regenerated human spirit is mingled with the Spirit of the resurrected Christ. He is in us and we are in Him.

The doctrine of the Triinity is not just for our creed or our profession of faith, It is for us to know and enter into the enjoyment of the Triune God through the redemption in Christ as our indwelling LIfe and Life supply. Until we have this revelation, we cannot have the enjoyment of the reality.

Grafted Branch

 2005/11/11 11:39Profile

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