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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Born Again By What Means

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rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
That is why they were kicked out of the garden, so they would not partake of the tree of life and live forever in eternal hell without reconciliation with the one that lied to them.



Prior to the rebellion they had eternal life according to Scripture.



Quote:
Act 27:23 For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve,
This is Paul's expression of Who was revealed to him for three years in the desert, Jesus Christ Himself. Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.




Christ revealed Himself to Job

Job 19:25 For I know that my Redeemer lives,
And He shall stand at last on the earth;
26 And after my skin is destroyed, this I know,
That in my flesh I shall see God,
27 Whom I shall see for myself,
And my eyes shall behold, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!

Christ revealed Himself to David

Psa. 110:1 The LORD said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”

When God reveals Himself to man throughout Scripture, who is it that man sees?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/1/5 11:43Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
Hbr 4:12 For the Word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Again who is the Word? Yes Jesus Christ has divided our soul and spirit that He might become our Spirit. Our old spirit was not the Spirit of Christ, but the spirit of Satan. Our spirit and soul were one at one time but now with Satan split out of us our spirit is Christ in you the Hope of Glory.




Phillip I hear your heart. I hear the testimony of Jesus that is in you. It is God's desire for us to grow in understanding. You speak of Paul's experience as being greater than all others that have written books of the Scriptures. I do not see this in Scripture. If I had to choose which Apostle or Prophet were given greater revelation it would have to be John, Moses, Ezekiel, Joshua.

Your thoughts on the spirit of a man being replaced does not conform to Paul's teachings.

1Cor. 1:4 I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given to you by Christ Jesus, 5 that you were enriched in everything by Him in all utterance and all knowledge, 6 even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, 7 so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,

The Corinthians have been given the testimony of Christ, yet Paul continues to teach about the nature of man's spirit and God's Spirit.

The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.


Paul teaches that man has his own spirit and God's Spirit is given to us to teach us the things of God.

Remembering that Paul declared that the Corinthians had been given all utterance and all knowledge, the testimony of Christ was confirmed [b]in you.[/b] Yet what does Paul say of the Corinthians?

16 For “who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ. 1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; 3 for you are still carnal.


They are still choosing to follow their own spririt are they not? What does Paul say of these believers? Is not the word of God the primary focus in Paul's ministry to them. He said that they were not able to receive the solid food but he had to continue feeding them the milk. Paul charged that they were still carnal. How is this possible if they have the [b]testimony of Christ in them?[/b]

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/1/5 12:12Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
Now we who believe in Christ and His work on the cross, God by His Grace has given us new birth and the old has passed away and all things have become new. We are now children of the Living God our new Father through His Son Jesus Christ in whom we have believed.



You often speak of the new creation as being something that Paul was first to understand. Yet what does Scripture say?

Job 33:

24 Then He is gracious to him, and says,
“Deliver him from going down to the Pit;
I have found a ransom’;
25 His flesh shall be young like a child’s,
He shall return to the days of his youth.
26 He shall pray to God, and He will delight in him,
He shall see His face with joy,
For He restores to man His righteousness.

The book of Job also speaks of a newness of life. For God restores His righteousness in man. And where do the righteous sit?

Job 36:

7 He does not withdraw His eyes from the righteous;
But they are on the throne with kings,
For He has seated them forever,
And they are exalted.

What kingdom do these righteous occupy?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/1/5 12:26Profile









 Re:

p22

Quote:
Do not choose to overlook the importance of the word of God and how understanding His word is the means by which we know "the Life."



p20
Quote:
I just wanted to again point to the promise of the New Covenant.

Jer. 31: 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, “Know the LORD,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”


It is God who places His law on the minds and hearts of His people. In Luke 8:12 we find that God has sowed His word in their hearts and Satan has come to steal what was sown in their hearts.

We also see that there may be a difference in that the word of God is sown, but has the law of God taken root in the mind and heart?

Jeff,

I want to thank you for hanging on to this thread. Something, somewhere, about 'the incorruptible seed'.... has penetrated my spiritual understanding, as a result of your labours and exposition of 'the word', here.

1 Peter 1:23 [b]Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever[/b].

 2006/1/5 13:49
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Sis wrote:

Quote:
Something, somewhere, about 'the incorruptible seed'.... has penetrated my spiritual understanding,



Is. 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept,
Line upon line, line upon line,
Here a little, there a little.”

This is how God works His word into the hearts of those who will listen. The understanding becomes clearer as He causes us to wrestle with the things He brings to our minds. At first we know there is something to be understood but we can't quite grasp what He is doing. Precept must precede precept, we learn line by line as we continue to be fed by His word.

Be patient and know that He will satisfy those who hunger for His righteousness.

God Bless
In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/1/5 14:59Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:


Quote:
We also see that there may be a difference in that the word of God is sown, but has the law of God taken root in the mind and heart?




God has distinguished or seperated man from all other parts of His creation by the gift of both spoken and written language. This is not the only thing that seperates man from the rest of His creation. Having said this, what purpose does His word, not the Word, serve as the means by which He has chosen to act upon man? How does His word become the law written by Him on the hearts that believe?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/1/6 11:10Profile









 Re: Born Again By What Means

Quote:
what purpose does His word, not the Word, serve as the means by which He has chosen to act upon man? How does His word become the law written by Him on the hearts that believe?

Primarily, by faith....

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen (Heb 11:1).

Faith is believing what He has said to me.

That presupposes a relationship in which I am listening to Him. Then, because of that relationship, within which He speaks to me, I know what I should be [i]doing[/i], and, if I [i]believe[/i] as believing is supposed to be done, I will [i]do[/i] (or put into action) what He has said to me.

Romans 10:10
For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And [b]how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard[/b]?

And, how shall we believe into what He says to us, if we do not listen? And why would He continue to speak to us if we do not respond in obedience?

James 1:22
But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.
23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror;
24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was.
25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

2 Peter 1
8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, [b]for if you [u]do[/u] these things you will never stumble;
11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ[/b].

 2006/1/7 11:09
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Sis quoted:

Quote:
for if you do these things you will never stumble;
11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.



That entrance will be supplied to you abundantly, the door by which we enter, is pointed to by the word of God. The parable of the Sower illustrates the narrow and the broad path. The parable of the Sower highlights 3 ways that leads to the broad road and one that leads to the narrow road.

The narrow road changes the substance for what we hope for. That substance is acquired as you have pointed out Sister Dorcas, by listening and then doing.

Deut. 11:18 “Therefore you shall lay up these words of mine in your heart and in your soul, and bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/1/7 14:20Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

His words become a law written on our heart. What is the difference between hearing the word and [ that] word becoming a law that governs our life?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/1/7 14:23Profile









 Re:


Quote:
The narrow road changes the substance for what we hope for. That substance is acquired as you have pointed out Sister Dorcas, by listening and then doing.

Deut. 11:18 “Therefore you shall lay up these words of mine in your heart and in your soul, and bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.

Jeff, I'm surprised at your picking this excellent verse from the Old Testament, rather than any in the New Testament, which exhorts to walk in the Spirit, such as from Romans 6 or 8, or, Galatians 5. I feel this is how we [i]prove to ourselves[/i] (and God) that the New Covenant is written in our hearts and minds.

Maybe you meant a more figurative interpretation of the word in Deuteronomy?

 2006/1/7 18:53





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