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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Born Again By What Means

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rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
Israel would not have been seated in Heavenly places, they would have been seated with Him as King on this earth if they would have accepted Him as King ruling from David's throne.



What was Abraham's view of this?

Heb. 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. 15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.

Abraham's hope was revealed to him by God in that he would live in the heavenly country.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2005/12/12 12:28Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
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 Re:

""Abraham's hope was revealed to him by God in that he would live in the heavenly country.""


Hebrews 11:39-40 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Only Christ is the Promise, that is Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

Colossians 1:18-20 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

This is the beginning.

Colossians 1:27-28 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Was this preached to Abraham? They only sought a Heavenly home. They did not seek Christ and understand that Christ would be Born Again in them as we do.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2005/12/13 0:24Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
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 Re:

""Are you saying you don't see yourself as a priest of the kingdom..... right now?""

No, I was separating the priest's of this earth which is Old Testament saints that will rule in the millennium on this earth, from the Kingdom of Priest's that rule with Christ in the Fathers House, the Body of Christ. Ye must be born again, why won't everybody understand what Jesus was saying. We have not excuse to ask the question as Nicodemus did, "John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Nicodemus did not have any idea what this birth was and either did Abraham. God has provided for His own be it the Church the Body of Christ or Israel in the millennium on this earth or The Body of Christ in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, and all else at the Great White Throne Judgment after the millennium when all that are left will be judged. We must rightly divide the Word and not commingle Law and Grace, or old testament works salvation with new testament faith salvation. There is a difference of those that are in Christ and those that looked forward to the promises of God to Israel and old testament saints who have not Christ in them. They will worship Him in the New Jerusalem in the millennium. We worship Him now in our birthed new life with Him in us. All we have to do is kneel and close our eyes and we are in complete fellowship with Jesus Christ, He is in us and we need nothing else to bring us into His presence and we can crawl up in the Father's Lap and come boldly to the throne of Grace, for our Daddy will not in any way cast us out. Christ is our life and He has made us one with Himself and our Father.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2005/12/13 4:47Profile









 Re: Born Again By What Means

Hi Phillip :-)

Quote:
""Are you saying you don't see yourself as a priest of the kingdom..... right now?""

No, I was separating the priest's of this earth which is Old Testament saints that will rule in the millennium on this earth, from the Kingdom of Priest's that rule with Christ in the Fathers House, the Body of Christ. Ye must be born again, why won't everybody understand what Jesus was saying.

According to the verse which rookie quotes from the end of Hebrews 11, the Old Testament saints [i][b]will[/i][/b] be made perfect; this is implicit in the clauses 'that they without us should not be made perfect'.

Another way of saying that is that they with us will be made perfect. That means God has found a way to [i]include them in Christ[/i], according to the good pleasure of His will.

Certainly, this is consistent with Romans 9, which separates those who lived by faith, from those who tried to obtain righteousness by the law. Taking into account the inclusion of Abraham in Hebrews 11 (and Galatians and elsewhere in Romans) his [u]faith[/u] has [i][b]saved[/i][/b] him, according to Paul and the writer of Hebrews.

 2005/12/13 5:40
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip quoted:

Quote:
Hebrews 11:39-40 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.



According to Paul's teachings in Scripture when will the OT saints and the NT saints be made perfect?


Quote:
Was this preached to Abraham? They only sought a Heavenly home. They did not seek Christ and understand that Christ would be Born Again in them as we do.



John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”


3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
For they shall be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
For they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
For they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
For they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 “Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Is it possible to be a disciple of Christ and not have the Holy Spirit?

6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
For they shall be filled.

What is it that fills those who hunger and thirst for righteousness? Who is Melchizedec? What was His priestly duties? It is said that He was both King of righteousness and peace and that Abraham gave a tithe to Him.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2005/12/13 11:33Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

What really is the Good News? What fruit is experienced by those who know the Eternal Life and the Father?

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1140&forum=36&43

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2005/12/13 12:09Profile
Christinyou
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 Re:

Abraham rejoiced to see the day of Christ. If Abraham knew that Christ would be in him and All Israel knew that Christ would be born again in them, why did God choose Paul to bring this mystery, which you say Abraham already knew, then Paul was just someone that God really did not need because All Israel knew this mystery. Why send Paul?

Why is there going to be a new Jerusalem with Christ on the Throne of David, if all Israel already knows that Christ is their Savior and King and they are already perfect in Christ. Why not just skip all the promises God made to Israel if they are already fulfilled in Christ?
All we need is a new heaven and new earth, no millennium no, Judgment Seat of Christ, no Great White Throne Judgment, no promises to Israel, God can just skip all the generalities and go straight to National Israel and just put them together in one basket, and we all live happily ever after.

If we are all perfect in Christ there is no reason for us to stay here and why does not God just take all of us now? Really if you look at it that way Christ did not have to go to the Cross. I really don't think God's perfect Plan that has been worked out, the exact termination as He pleases, is going to be what we choose to believe but I really think that it is going to be His way.

Paul tries to give us the truth about Christ in us The Hope of Glory, and all we do is try to make Israel and works the means we are seated already in Heavenly Places with Christ, only because we believed.

We don't need Paul, we just need to pull Israel back into the Picture and God will be very pleased with us.

Uh, Oh, I forgot these scriptures. These are for me.

Galatians 1:6-17 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers. But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

Three years with Christ wasted?

Sorry, I am not trying to pervert you. If this is too much, forgive me, I am still renewing my mind to the Mind of Christ, and will always be.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2005/12/13 15:57Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
Abraham rejoiced to see the day of Christ. If Abraham knew that Christ would be in him and All Israel knew that Christ would be born again in them, why did God choose Paul to bring this mystery, which you say Abraham already knew, then Paul was just someone that God really did not need because All Israel knew this mystery. Why send Paul?



The Scriptures of which you speak, speak of the grace that would come to the gentiles at a time when an unfaithful generation of Israel would be broken off the tree. As you read through the OT you will find the work of Christ in those who lived by faith. The substance of their faith was rooted in the same vine that our faith finds it's nourishment.



Quote:
Why is there going to be a new Jerusalem with Christ on the Throne of David, if all Israel already knows that Christ is their Savior and King and they are already perfect in Christ. Why not just skip all the promises God made to Israel if they are already fulfilled in Christ?



Not all Israel knew God through Christ. Only by grace through faith does one come to know God and the Lord of Hosts.

Paul teaches very clearly about the work of Christ.

Romans 5:

8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

In these Scriptures Paul teaches that we are reconciled by Christ's sacrifice on the cross. Yet much more than this, "we shall be save by His life."

I do not seek to diminish His loving sacrifice for a sinner like me. But much more I find victory in the Life that He shares with me. It is the Life that saves. This Life is the Lord of Hosts in which the OT Scriptures has much to say.


Quote:
Galatians 1:6-17 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:



This grace that Paul speaks of in Galatians is the same that he speaks of in the generation of Elijah.

Romans 11

4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2005/12/13 16:18Profile
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 Re:

Romans 11:22-25 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

All that believe will be grafted in Jews' or Gentile. Were they grafted in while they were still the tree? I don't think so, that is impossible. For in Christ there is neither Jew or Gentile. Are we the Christ ones jealous of Israel? No, no a thousand times no, are they jealous? If not why are they trying to get the promises in any other way but Christ. They cannot, and will not until God is ready to save all Israel.

Romans 11:26-29 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

For the fathers' sakes. Comp. De 10:15. He had chosen their fathers to be his peculiar people. He had made many promises to Abraham respecting his seed, and extended these promises to his remotest posterity. Though salvation is by grace, and not from human merit, yet God has respect to his covenant made with the fathers, and will not forget his promises. It is not on account of any merit of the fathers or of ancient saints, but solely because God had made a covenant with them; and this purpose of election would be manifest to their children in the latest times. As those contemplated in the covenant made with Abraham, God retained for them feelings of peculiar interest; and designed their recovery to himself. It is clear here that the word election does not refer to external privileges; for Paul is not teaching the doctrine that they shall be restored to the external privileges of Jews, but that they shall be truly converted to God. Yet this should not be abused by others to lead them to security in sin. No man has any security of happiness, and of the favour of God, but he who complies with the terms of his mercy. His command is explicit, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou will be saved, nor can there be safety except in entire compliance with the terms on which he is willing to bestow eternal life. I will birth My Son in you, hear ye Him.

I praise God for Israel, because Christ was brought through them to the Born Again. Not because of them but because of God and these are the gifts and calling of God which He will not go back on His Promise. Israel a special called out people of God through whom God would bring a Son that would save all that are given to Him by the Father.

But now the Glory of God is in Christ and Christ is in us and all that believe now are in Christ which is truly the Hope of Glory.

Colossians 1:25-28 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2005/12/13 16:51Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:


Quote:
All that believe will be grafted in Jews' or Gentile. Were they grafted in while they were still the tree? I don't think so, that is impossible.



Rom. 11:16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,

Scripture teaches that the gentiles, the wild olive branch was grafted into the holy root. These wild branches were grafted in [b]among them,[/b]

What holy branches were the wild branches grafted in among?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2005/12/13 18:06Profile





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