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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Born Again By What Means

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macbug
Member



Joined: 2005/10/20
Posts: 29
So Cali-

 You First, only kids ask questions they can not answer.

Dear Phillip:
I disagree with most of your reasons for asking the quesitons. That aside, if you ask over 8 questions in one posting, you should at least state your answers or position on each question first.

Sincerely,
macbug


_________________
michael

 2005/12/9 4:16Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: You First, only kids ask questions they can not answer.

macbug,

Lose the haughtiness. There are 16 pages here to read through, if you are unfamiliar with the nature of how things develop in a particular posting you will be at a loss to begin dictating how things ought to be.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/12/9 9:04Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
Does the Holy Spirit deal with man the same as He did before Pentecost as He does after Pentecost? Is the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Christ the same manifestation of God? Is the Holy Spirit the Incorruptable Seed. Who died on the Cross, was it Jesus Christ the Son of God or the Holy Spirit of God? Are the jobs attributed to the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ the same.




What was God's purpose in revealing the High Priest Melchezedec to Abraham? What is the work of the Order of Melchizedec?


Quote:
Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:



Was this mystery among the Gentiles only for the Gentiles? I ask this question to point to how many use this Scripture.


Quote:
Is this The Holy Spirit in you the Hope of Glory?



By what means does God reveal to you the Glory? How has the substance of your hope been changed, been renewed? Has our lives begun to live the parables of Scripture or have we chosen to remain captive to our old man?

Was John the Baptist a captive to God or man?



Quote:
The reason for all these questions is, we must separate the work that is done by each Person of the God Head, They are One God, but there is a certain accomplishment for The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit,



All was accomplished before the foundation of this world. The teachings of dispensational theology acknowledge the work of the Father and is blind to the work of the Son and the Spirit in the OT. Somehow we accept the doctrine of the Trinity yet we fail to want to search the Scriptures to see that this doctrine is really true. When one see the work of the High Priest Melchizedec and the work of the Holy Spirit creating faith in the OT saints one begins to realize how true the doctrine of the Trinity is.

Just some thoughts

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2005/12/9 12:32Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Quote:

Was this mystery among the Gentiles only for the Gentiles? I ask this question to point to how many use this Scripture.

This mystery was among the Gentiles. Not for them alone, the Mystery Paul reveals is not for any specific race, color, nationality, creed, or religion. It is for Christians, Christ Ones. Paul was primarily revealing this mystery to the Gentile, that was his job specification, Paul the Apostle to the Gentiles, but he spread it to all that would hear with ear's to hear and eyes to see. He became Jewish to the Jews, under the law and those not under the law, to the weak he became weak: 1 Corinthians 9:22-23 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

Galatians 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

This is the Gospel of Christ given by direct revelation from Himself to Paul and us. We are no longer Jew's or Gentiles'. We are Christians. They were first called Christians in Antioch. Act 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

Galatians 1:15-16 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by His grace, To reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Christ had never been revealed in any person before Paul, who was the first, I said, "revealed," not that He was not already there after His Ascention but no body knew it. That is why God chose Paul, one of the meanest men in the world who was killing Christians for the Jewish religion and was profiting in his endeavor. We can scream about the Old Testament and that Christ was there and it is certain that He was, but He was not Born Again in the Believer by the Incorruptable Seed of the Father. This is not dispensationalism, this is the truth of the Word of God. Paul uses dispensations, just because he used the word are we not to believe him.

1Cr 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation [of the gospel] is committed unto me.

Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:

Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

The Word of God was waiting to be fulfilled from the foundation of the world to the revelation given to Paul, that we might know by this Gospel how we are to be judged.

Jam 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

We will be judged by this Gospel of Christ in you the Hope of Glory, not what we have done but by who we are in Christ, what we have allowed Him to do in us. I must decrease and He must increase

Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

The truth of Christ in us: Phillip


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Phillip

 2005/12/9 20:06Profile
macbug
Member



Joined: 2005/10/20
Posts: 29
So Cali-

 Haughtiness, maybe you too.

I apologize I thought maybe this site would be different. It is not. You got your Romans vs. Protestants, liberal vs. conservative. Everyone quotes and quotes but very few communicate, good luck you can have it.


_________________
michael

 2005/12/10 10:59Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip:

Luke 7:22 Jesus answered and said to them, “Go and tell John the things you have seen and heard: that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, the poor have the gospel preached to them.

Luke 9:6 So they departed and went through the towns, preaching the gospel and healing everywhere.


Did Jesus preach a different Gospel than Paul? Jesus sent His disciples out to preach the Gospel that did not even speak of the death that He would die on the cross. Really what is the Gospel? Has it ever changed?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2005/12/11 10:25Profile
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
Did Jesus preach a different Gospel than Paul? Jesus sent His disciples out to preach the Gospel that did not even speak of the death that He would die on the cross. Really what is the Gospel? Has it ever changed?



Romans 1:1-4

Paul, a slave of Jesus Christ, a called apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, Which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, Concerning His Son, who came out of the seed of David according to the flesh, Who was designated the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness out of the resurrection of the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Brother,

Why do we have a New Testament? Why do we have the book of Romans? Why do we have the epistles? Why do we have the book of Hebrews?

The Gospel of God is concerning His Son who was born of the Seed of David according to the flesh and designated the Son of God... out of the resurrection from the Dead.

The Gospel is concerning Christ, incarnated into humanity, crucified for our sins and raised from the dead.

The book of Romans is 'the Gospel of God'

The diciples preached the "gospel of the Kingdom" which was at hand.

Upon the Lord's crucifixion, resurrection, and ascention, with the outpoured Spirit the diciples preached Christ, crucified, and resurrected and salvation through faith in His Name.

The Gospel includes the Kingdom, it's reality and it's comming manifestation.

The Gospel is concerning Christ. Christ is the center, the element, and the content of the Gospel.

Christ was the Kingdom of God in their midst. Now Christ is the Kingdom of God within His believers. In the comming Age Christ will reign along with His regenerated believers in the full manifestation of the Kingdom of God in the earth.

There is one gospel with many facets but with only one center and focus. Christ. "We preach Christ as the gospel" - Paul


Graftedbranch

 2005/12/11 11:36Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Quote, Rookie

Did Jesus preach a different Gospel than Paul? Jesus sent His disciples out to preach the Gospel that did not even speak of the death that He would die on the cross. Really what is the Gospel? Has it ever changed?

As Graftedbranch has said, not a different Gospel but Paul preached a fulfillment to the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven on this earth.

This is the Gospel that Christ preached to Israel.

Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Paul preached a Gospel of the Kingdom of God in Heavenly places, where we are seated with Him.

1 Thessalonians 2:12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.

Eph 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:

Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],

Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:

Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Israel would not have been seated in Heavenly places, they would have been seated with Him as King on this earth if they would have accepted Him as King ruling from David's throne. Since they rejected Him that part of the Gospel has been put off until the 1000 year reign of Christ from that throne of David in the new Jerusalem ruling over His earthly Kingdom with Israel preaching to the world that Christ is Lord and King and the birthed, born again children of God will be ruling with Him from our Father's House.

These are resurrected priests of God and Christ.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

These are Israel, Kingdom priests on this earth.

Exd 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.



In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2005/12/12 4:38Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Since they rejected Him that part of the Gospel has been put off until the 1000 year reign of Christ from that throne of David in the new Jerusalem ruling over His earthly Kingdom with Israel preaching to the world that Christ is Lord and King and the birthed, born again children of God will be ruling with Him from our Father's House.

These are resurrected priests of God and Christ.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

These are Israel, Kingdom priests on this earth.

Exd 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Hi Phillip,

Are you saying you don't see yourself as a priest of the kingdom..... right now?

I believe I am already part of the kingdom of priests to which these verses refer, because, not only Peter said:

4 Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, 5 you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture, "Behold, I lay in Zion A chief cornerstone, elect, precious, And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame."

7 Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient, "The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone," 8 and "A stone of stumbling And a rock of offense." They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed. 9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people [u]but are now the people of God[/u], who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy. 1 Peter 2 (NKJV)

('but are now the people of God' is to the [i]Jews[/i], with whom God had broken His Covenant.)

but Paul said:

19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. Ephesians 2


What is the difference between these two statements, one to the Jews and one to the Gentiles, both written in the present continuous tense?

 2005/12/12 5:40
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother GB wrote:

Quote:
Why do we have a New Testament? Why do we have the book of Romans? Why do we have the epistles? Why do we have the book of Hebrews?



To reveal the mystery that existed since the foundation of the world, that Jesus Christ, High Priest, of the Order of Melchezidec, saves those who live by faith. The revealation of this mystery did not stop God from saving the OT saints, the NT just reveals what was once hidden but always present in the lives of those who were saved by grace through faith.

Romans 11:
2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 “LORD, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”? 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

Here Paul teaches that there were 7000 saved by grace during the time of Elijah. Not by works but by grace, those who listen to God and did not bow their knee to Baal. Now we know that carnal man has not the ability to reject Satan's ways that is unless God provide the grace necessary.

This is the Gospel that Jesus teaches man.

Matthew 5:

3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
For they shall be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
For they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
For they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
For they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 “Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Matt. 5:13 “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.

Matt. 5:14 “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.

Matt. 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

All the elements of a life lived in faith according to the provisions of the Holy Spirit are the evidence that Jesus teaches in the Beatitudes.

If you read the OT carefully you will find the evidence of the Beatitudes in the lives of those who lived by faith.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2005/12/12 12:20Profile





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