| Poster | Thread | philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK
| | Re: | | Quote:
"But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him
" Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist. (Matt 17:12-13)
Robert, So, are you saying Jesus and Malachi are wrong? Something is wrong here; one source or the other. Perhaps John the Baptist just didn't understand. Few people remember past lives (but many children reportedly do.)
Fascinating! The bits of the Bible that you say are figurative, we say are literal while the bits of the Bible we say are figurative, you say are literal.
There is a key reference to John Baptist in And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come? And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and [u]restoreth all things[/u]; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought. But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him. (Mark 9:11-13, KJVS)Elijah's ministry was one of 'restoration'. His work restored Israel to its place of decision in the presence of God. At this time the nation was split into two, but Elijah still builds his altar with 12 stones and makes his sacrifice synchronised to Jerusalem time.And [u]Elijah took twelve stones[/u], according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the LORD came, saying, Israel shall be thy name: And with the stones he built an altar in the name of the LORD: and he made a trench about the altar, as great as would contain two measures of seed. And he put the wood in order, and cut the bullock in pieces, and laid him on the wood, and said, Fill four barrels with water, and pour it on the burnt sacrifice, and on the wood. And he said, Do it the second time. And they did it the second time. And he said, Do it the third time. And they did it the third time. And the water ran round about the altar; and he filled the trench also with water. And it came to pass [u]at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice[/u], that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word. (1Kings 18:31-36, KJVS) His actions brought the nation back to their beginnings. His admonition to the nation...And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word. (1Kings 18:21, KJVS) is an echo of an earlier event when Joshua gathered the people into the valley between Ebal and Gerizim and called upon them to...And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. (Josh. 24:15, KJVS) Elijah had brought the nation back spritually to this same point in time; it was the nation's crisis decision.
John came in the 'spirit and power of Elijah' (Luke 1:17). Just as Elisha received Elijah's mantle to indicate his succeeding to the role that Elijah had filled, so now, John Baptist will come as another 'successor' to Elijah, not as Elijah personally but the man marked out as Elijah's successor in as clear a way as the mantle had marked out Elisha.
John Baptist's ministry brought the God-consciousness of the nation to its highest sensitivity since the times of Joshua and Elijah. It is recorded of John that ...Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, (Matt. 3:5, KJVS) This was the 'biggest' revival in the nation's history. He did his work of preparing a people for the coming King. This is all easily missed because the life and ministry of Christ has the same effect on John's ministry as does the rising sun on the morning star; it decreases until it is no longer visible. However the testimonies of Christ to John are extraordinary; Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. (Matt. 11:11, KJVS)
He was the burning and shining lamp, and you were willing for a time to rejoice in his light.
(John 5:35, NKJV)It is true, as Christ expressed it, John had 'restored all things'. This was Israel's moment and they were perfectly prepared for it by John, but when it came to the 'Choose this day', they chose Barabbas.
Symbolically, John dressed as Elijah (compare 2Kings 1:7-8 with Matt. 3:4) and recall that John was a Nazarite who had not cut his hair from birth. But John was NOT Elijah's reincarnation; he was the fulfillment of the ministry of which Elijah had been a figure.
Using the same logic bubbaguy would have to conclude that Jesus was a reincarnation of David! For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and [u]David their king, whom I will raise up unto them[/u]. (Jer. 30:8-9, KJVS)
And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant [u]David[/u]; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant [u]David[/u] a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken it.
(Ezek. 34:23-24, KJVS)
Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and [u]David their king[/u]; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.
(Hos. 3:5, KJVS) These prophecies came 500 years after David's death and all promise the return of 'David'. Except, it is not a reincarnation of David in prospect, but the man who was the fulfillment of all that David had prefigured. So also with Elijah and John Baptist.
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Ron Bailey
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|  2005/10/21 19:28 | Profile | dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132
| | Yes! | | :-) Brother Ron, I knew you'd come bail us out. I love to read your posts! But don't get a big head :-) . It seems when I read some of your stuff the lights turn on and missing pieces fall into place and things become clearer.
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D.Miller
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| | 2005/10/21 22:13 | Profile | philologos
Member
Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK
| | Re: Yes! | | It didn't look as though you were sinking to me! The heart of the answer was in the short post by Paul from the Netherlands. And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, (Heb. 9:27, NKJV) One life, one death, one judgement, one destiny...
The rest was trimmings... :-)
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Ron Bailey
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| | 2005/10/24 8:06 | Profile |
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