Dear Brothers Ron,
What, using biblical terms, would be your definition of 'psychological injury'?
I'm curious, was this under some Theophostic Ministry? What you are describing sounds alot like what I have read from that type of ministry. For example they might say... "If I try to resolve my present conflict without finding healing for my past wounds (memories with embedded lies), I will only find temporary relief. However, if I heal my past, I will redeem my present." My question to that notion would be, are we trying to heal our past or are we trusting that God has made us a new creation ala 2 Corinthians 5:17.
Brothers, I am willing to take this further under one condition. Are you willing to explore this, or do you want to disprove me. I will continue if you are willing to open yourself up to the possibility that not all spiritual matters are cut and dry, and that we may still be able to learn.
Dear Ron,Dear Ron,I looked up the meaning of the two words in the Thesaurus and this is what it said:Psychology - the scientific study of the human mind and mental states, and of human and animal behavior.Psychiatry - a medical specialty concerned with the diagnosis and treatment of disorders that have primarily mental or behavioral symptoms and with the care of people having such disorders.There is no question that this word is not found in the Bible, because there didnt have this profession. Jesus wasnt a psychiatrist or a psychologist, but this is what He knew:Luke 9:47 And Jesus, perceiving the thought of their heart [kardia], took a child, and set him by him,Heart in this Scripture is the Greek word kardia. This may be understood to mean:1. that organ in the animal body which is the centre of the circulation of the blood, and hence was regarded as the seat of physical life, or2. the soul or mind, as it is the fountain and seat of the thoughts, passions, desires, appetites, affections, purposes, endeavours This makes it clearer, for Jesus perceived the thought of their soul or mind, i.e., He didnt have to study their mind or mental state, He saw it. As I have stated in previous posts, I dont involve myself with psychology, I trust the guidance of the Holy Spirit.John 2 24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.This Scripture makes it even clearer: Jesus knew what was in man, i.e., He perceived the true state of their purpose, objectives, reasoning, etc. This is what I believe the key is to all of this. This is why I believe that many of us miss a lot of what the Lord really has given us: Christ in us the hope of glory! What does that mean: Christ in you? Why did Paul labor to see Christ formed in believers? I have posted several times references to the prayers of Paul in his letter to the Ephesian Church. In Ephesian 1:18 he asks God the Father to have the eyes of their heart [kardia] NASB Greek, or the eyes of their understanding [dianoia, mind as faculty of understanding] AV Greek to be enlightened i.e., spiritually illuminated; in Ephesians 3:16,17 Paul writes this: That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; That Christ may dwell in your hearts [kardia, AV and NASB Greek] by faith.What do you think happens, if Christ really lives in your heart, the seat of thoughts, emotions, and passions? He still knows what is in man, also the man/woman you are talking to, praying about, or even sitting with. What did Jesus mean when He said:John 1613 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.If Jesus really lives in your heart by His Spirit and you ask the Father in Jesus name, He will show you in your heart what it is you ask for. He takes from Jesus and leads you into all truth! If your doctrine declares that the gifts of the Spirit died with the apostles, you have a serious problem, for you hereby deny the full counsel of God with ALL His promises. Of course that is ones choice; we are free agents, but it is certainly sad for the people who look for the One who came to set the captives free. If Christ would really live in the hearts of all Christians, we also wouldnt see the excesses in Charismatic circles, for they too would hear the voice of His Spirit in their hearts warning them about false manifestations. If we dont obey everything that Jesus taught us, we will be deceived, and we are deceived. To clarify another point: all the above does not mean that a Christian, who is a psychologist, cannot have the same guidance, for the Holy Spirit guides us into ALL truth. Many today, who feel called into the ministry, simply cannot get a position anywhere unless they have degrees. As soon as one has to go to some Bible College or Christian University to get a degree to preach the Good News, one has to agree with some doctrinal point of view. This is an aside, but I want to point out that a true Christian, who knows the voice of God, may certainly be used by God to heal through the leading of the Holy Spirit, even when they have a psychology degree. If churches and boards didnt require degrees, maybe our Lord would be able to better serve the flock by a man who simply trusted God, rather than being bound by needed degrees, with the possibility of being led astray by having to follow flawed doctrines.If you are with me on this, I may clarify some of the above with actual examples in another post.
Brothers, I am willing to take this further under one condition. Are you willing to explore this, or do you want to disprove me. I will continue if you are willing to open yourself up to the possibility that not all spiritual matters are cut and dry, and that we may still be able to learn. In the latter case, I prefer not to continue this. In both cases I pray that God will bless you both and I thank you and Him for having given me the opportunity to testify on this Forum that He is the great I AM.
If your doctrine declares that the gifts of the Spirit died with the apostles, you have a serious problem, for you hereby deny the full counsel of God with ALL His promises.
To clarify another point: all the above does not mean that a Christian, who is a psychologist, cannot have the same guidance, for the Holy Spirit guides us into ALL truth.
Brothers in the Lord,When I wrote the comment about the acceptance of spiritual gifts, it was meant generic, not directed at you; the use of the word one would have been better and more appropriate.I appreciate your comments and questions; at the same I have to confess that sometimes I become weary having attempted to explain supernatural/spiritual phenomena, and being questioned for over 20 years. That is the reason that I asked if you were really interested, since I have had enough very clever and very educated Christians prove me theologically incorrect. It is impossible to prove God, or the actual schemes of the devil. Yet, it is clear to each true born-again Christian that God is real, for there is the witness to ones spirit. For the same reason does every real practitioner of the occult know that the powers they call on are real as well. What is extremely disturbing to me is that the schemes of the devil are manifested all throughout the Church of Jesus Christ from my experience but I cannot prove this. Again, it is a witness to ones spirit. I want to drop the word psychological injury, even though in our society almost everybody has some notion of what it means, it is not Scriptural. The next question becomes, what do we call it? I call it demonic oppression, since I have not met anyone who has been possessed by the devil, as in, i.e., the man with the legion. The largest amount of spirits in one person I have encountered was six. Here is where we get into a touchy area. Which Christian will or can accept that a demon can have some form of control over a born-gain Christian? This is a rhetorical question, for I know the answer already: almost none. I say almost, because there are Christians who do accept this, mostly, because they themselves were delivered of them. This brings us back to the second page of this thread, where Philologos wrote:
I can see no Biblical evidence for the idea that a regenerate person can be indwelt by an evil entity while at the same time being indwelt by the Spirit of God. I just can't do the math! Where would the evil entity locate in someone who was 'filled' with the Holy Spirit?
I have to confess, for me it is a dilemma too, for I have studied this subject more than most Christians I know. The Bible gives examples of for instance King Saul who was anointed and since the Spirit of God came upon him and he prophesied demonstrating, if I may express it this way: a physical demonstration of the Spirit of God yet, when the Spirit of the Lord left him as result of sin an evil spirit of the Lord took control, and his situation went from bad to worse.
Ron,I do know I owe you a previous answer, but I can't go to sleep till I've asked you this. Please give a much fuller explanation, if possible, of how you can say an ordinary Spirit-filled believer is [u]not[/u] being led into all truth?
Now this is where the danger really lies. You are quotingHowbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. (John 16:13, KJVS)This is part of a unique promise given to the apostles.
This could not be turned into 'holy scripture', but surely it is 'truth',
Ron,Thank you. I [i]am[/i] listening.But I am also aware that you are trying to move this discussion into your comfort zone - the written word. Whereas the testimony of Jesus Christ (the living Word) as it has been experienced by an individual believer (in this case, me), is as valid; the word is nigh me, even in my mouth. This is how the gospel is spread, usually; the Holy Spirit interprets to the understanding of the hearer, who responds to God on the strength of what God has said through the person's spoken word - albeit codified in the canon of scripture. We need scripture. I love it. But it is a completely different mode of communication from preaching or prayer ministry and I know you must know that.Probably what is necessary in this discussion is that you listen carefully to the testimony coming towards you here, and rather than asking me or Hans (or anyone else who knows what we're talking about) to rethink how they/we explain how and what God does through us, that with your knowledge of scripture, you 'see' how our descriptions fit with the testimony of scripture as to how God has used other people in the past.I think your objection to the use of modern terminology (which communicates adequately with others working in this field of human endeavour (under God or not)) may be [b][i]more[/i][/b] valid nearer the [i]end[/i] of the conversation. As we proceed, definitions can be hammered out, just as you have to hammer them out in the mind of the listener when you're explaining a scriptural concept with which they are unfamiliar.
The danger in the modern psychological approach increasingly used in counselling is that 'further revelation' of the nature of man and his spiritual make-up is being added to the scripture.
Paul, for example, does not say 'I have the mind of Christ' but 'we have the mind of Christ'. John does not say 'thou hast an anointing' but the plural 'ye have an anointing'.