philologos asked
Are you thinking that Christ himself would have been open to this possibility too?
However, what I WAS thinking, now you ask, is that to suggest the mighty Holy Spirit cannot by-pass the presence of a lesser spirit, to have fellowship with a believer, doesn't make sense. It is to suggest that a demon is strong enough to keep the Holy Spirit out.
I have yet to be convinced that actions provoked by a renegade spirit, affecting the physical or mental behaviour of the demoniac, are regarded by God as sin - eg the spirit of infirmity.
_________________Ron Bailey
On the contrary, you seem to be suggesting that the 'mighty Holy Spirit' cannot keep a lesser spirit out.
I have yet to be convinced that 'sins' can be committed by renegade spirits through a human being.
According to your understanding, the Holy Spirit cannot get in, unless all other spirits have been removed. I'm disputing that because if a person wanted to receive the Holy Spirit, you are implying all lesser spirits will automatically leave to enable the Holy Spirit to enter. It may be true that some lesser spirits leave when the Holy Spirit enters but, where there is a need for healing (of many different sorts of trauma - possibly some self-inflicted but not necessarily so), there is need for specific ministry to the requirement for healing. Further, there may be a need to cast the spirit out before healing can take place. For sure, healing will not take place while the spirit is there but, the soul who follows after righteousness will receive a certain amount of deliverance from demons (if they have any). It is worth noting that no person can follow after righteousness without the help of the Holy Spirit, or, it is called 'works'.
Sorry - tried to contribute but then realised I don't really have a clue!Clueless - I am not calling myself that for nothing! :-)
Where do you get these notions from? This is why I called it psychology and not theology. I distrust psychology, but not as much as I distrust psychology with Bible labels.
_________________Hans Prang
I wouldnt dare calling that psychology, not even with a Christian label.
Some counsellors use 'regression' to trace the residual problems. This has become a major industry in some quarters with seminars and extension courses. I can see no evidence of this kind of counselling in the New Testament.
When I saw myself in that situation, I knew and physically felt the assault and the incredible psychological injury that it caused me. This was a supernatural event. There are only two sources for the supernatural: God and the devil.
Yet, with Christians in an environment of prayer and seeking God, I was taken back to the exact time and location of the incident of the “assault” against me. We didn’t ask God for this; in no way did we even attempt to do this, for neither I nor they knew this when we met that morning. I didn’t know about this incident until that exact moment in time. When I saw myself in that situation, I knew and physically felt the assault and the incredible psychological injury that it caused me. This was a supernatural event. There are only two sources for the supernatural: God and the devil. Since I was taken back into that situation and understood what happened and I yelled, I hate you, was I able to forgive the people who caused the pain. This would not have been initiated by the devil. The devil – to what I understand about his wiles - doesn’t want people free.
_________________Ron Halverson